Post Game Discussion - Skins/Lions

[DEHog]

Well, that was the worst loss I can remember seeing in. . .


. . . . .hmm. We've had tougher losses, maybe, but I can't recall anything as "low" as this one. Can't imagine this bodes well for Zorn's job security.

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC's sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

This post has not gone unnotoiced Kaz. You are right. It would be madness to fire Zorn throughout the regular season. He himself had been quoted to say that firing Norv throughout the season was a awful decistion.

BUT ...

I basically agree with you, Kaz. But I'm not sure Snyder does.

It comes dowm dollars and cents. If Dan Snyder feels that there is a way to stop the loss of income by firing the HC RIGHT NOW, he will. That is why he is a terrible owner. He is about to make a decision in the worst of circumstances.. Thou shall see

And Kazz, I look forward to see your signature before the end of the season.

As for the fallout…I see a silver lining…The voice in Snyder’s head has to be getting louder and louder…you can’t run the football side of things…you can’t keep Vinny here you must hiring a GM and give him control, it the only way you will attract a “real” HC.

Vinny must go before anyone else….period!!!!

ANY sensible reorganization starts RIGHT there.

BUT ... are you sure these are going to hold THEMSEVES for this failure and incompetenece instead of putting out there a sacrificial lamb (JZ) or two (JZ and JC) ???

I am not.


The scrutiny, ridicule and scorn by the media and the fans will be UNBEARABLE this week.

Jim Zorn may have lost the players after this game. This loss has a feeling of the last season of Spurrier with us. BAD NEWS.

Yep did you see Zorn on the sideline...deer in the headlights comes to mind. I feel for him and the players...they were put in a bad situation.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC's sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

This post has not gone unnotoiced Kaz. You are right. It would be madness to fire Zorn throughout the regular season. He himself had been quoted to say that firing Norv throughout the season was a awful decistion

Even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, this is why while I say to some other posters I don't believe they actually are Skins fans, I don't say that to you. No one who has a clue what they are talking about would want the Skins to fire their coach and go into complete disarray three games into the season and you consistently don't want them to make self destructive moves like that even if we don't always agree on what they should do.

[RayNAustin]

As for the game I was screaming for Zorn to kick the FG

It's a valid view. In the end since they best us up on both sides of the ball it wouldn't have mattered. The Lions outplayed us.

Man, I hate saying that.

Agrred but my point was that IMO Zorn made that call based on all the bad press the team got this week and not as a HC...that early in the game as a HC you take the points.

But as a counter argument and not actual disagreement, the team was on the 1 and were so raked over the coals for being inside the 10 last week so many times and coming away with FGs. Scoring could have been a pick me up and even converting a FG a downer for the team. Though after the bizarre decision to take the holding call I am not sure he wasn't just nuts. But I'm saying it could have made sense for that reason.

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

That's the whole truth right there.

Last week, Zorn decided (evidence: audio/video Zorn/Campbel live) that he decided to run in the red zone because of a couple of previous drops, which isn't the way such decisions should be made. This week, he decides to go for it again instead of taking the points (an emotional response to criticism for not scoring in the red zone), and then he decides to take a penalty instead of a 4th down, which again, is not conventional wisdom, and the Lions scored 7. Those two decisions alone account for 7 points today.

And the lack of the Redskin offense controlling the ball today helped to keep the defense on the field for most of the first half, yet they still played a solid 2nd half only giving up 6 points.

No way you blame the defense for this loss. They aren't dominating like we all anticipated, but they have not had any help from the offense either.

[DEHog]

I'd say he and JC are well on the way to the door. But not now, at the end of the year. He's seriously going to need to turn this around in a big way to change that. We're 3 for 3 with severely disappointing games now. But putting the team in disarray by quitting now and souring the ground for any reputable coach isn't the solution. If Snyder fires Zorn now, I'll put RiC's sig in mine as that would actually prove Snyder is an incompetent owner.

This post has not gone unnotoiced Kaz. You are right. It would be madness to fire Zorn throughout the regular season. He himself had been quoted to say that firing Norv throughout the season was a awful decistion

Even though we don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, this is why while I say to some other posters I don't believe they actually are Skins fans, I don't say that to you. No one who has a clue what they are talking about would want the Skins to fire their coach and go into complete disarray three games into the season and you consistently don't want them to make self destructive moves like that even if we don't always agree on what they should do.

Nor do I...I think time will prove the Lions aren't a 0-16 team of course we aren't a 8-8 team either.

[KazooSkinsFan]

That's my point you don't make calls in a NFL game based on that when you do..you're done!

It was a desperation call, but we were desperate. We scored nine points against the Rams. Our O needs to get in the end zone and he had a shot to do it. We really needed a TD at that point, not a FG. And we gave them the ball on the 1 with a rookie QB. When they drive 99 yards on you in that situation you're in trouble, our D needed to stop them. But we give them a free 5 yards for a cushion, they get the first down and breathing room. That wasn't a failing of the O.

That's the mindset Zorn had and he shouldn't have we did not "need" a TD at the point we "wanted" a TD. The right call was to get 3 and get out.
SO you only had 3 FG last week that was last week. 3 FG > 1 TD.

But that was by the Skin of our teeth and we were at home, not a repeating formula for success. Anyway, we're not deeply disagreeing because my view is Zorn got himself into the situation he needed the TD anyway at that point with dubious playcalling and not bringing a team ready to play for three weeks in a row.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I received a lot of flak for predicting the Lions would beat us this week

And it was richly deserved, as you continue to show...

Season is over.

[brad7686]

I regret that the team doesn't have more depth, and I lament the day that Joe Gibbs traded up for Jason Campbell. I hope this team never wastes another first round draft pick on an unproven QB.

How do you expect to ever get a franchise QB in here if you don't keep trying to snag one high in the draft??? Franchise QBs don't just fall out of the sky via free agency (aside from Drew Brees). You have to keep trying to obtain one in the draft until you find one that fits.

Well if the offense continues to suck and the team continues to lose, I think its safe to say Campbell will be gone and they'll be looking for a high first rounder. Since he is a free agent, he would actually have to show that he is above average and not the average qb he has been, or there is no need to resign him. Unfortunately, what the team really needs is a new right side of the offensive line. Unless that is addressed via free agency, whatever first round qb comes in, be it Bradford, McCoy, Snead, Claussen (All of which are pretty good options), will get annihilated, because while Campbell has some weaknesses, his mobility in the pocket has progressed to a point where it is pretty good, and it has to be behind that sad excuse of a line thats out there. They can't even block the lions D-line. WTF.

[KazooSkinsFan]

No way you blame the defense for this loss. They aren't dominating like we all anticipated, but they have not had any help from the offense either.

Agreed. The D was sad in the first half, but at least they only gave up 13 points and played better in the second. The O showed up for only the first drive of each half until garbage time.

[DEHog]

No way you blame the defense for this loss. They aren't dominating like we all anticipated, but they have not had any help from the offense either.

Agreed. The D was sad in the first half, but at least they only gave up 13 points and played better in the second. The O showed up for only the first drive of each half until garbage time.

They ran the ball we didn't... 2-10 on third for us while they were 10-18. Same ole story. D couldn't get off the field on third down. Total team loss today IMO

[skinsfan#33]

I don't think the state of the team has been so dire since the Norv yeärs of the mid 1990s. There really is no hope for this team, none.

Wow, you truly have forgotten the Norv years then. We dealt with 7 years of no hope under Norv. You could tell from day one that he was never going to work out.

I'm sure if Zorn had seven years and a QB that plays as well as BJ did in 1999 he could win a division championship too.

This was a total team loss. The D play in the first half was epically bad! They were physically dominated by the Lions! The Lion OL just whipped the D, blew them off the ball. How can you consider yourself a good D when you give up a 99 yard drive to a rookie QB that has only been completing 50% and one of the NFLs worst. Never mind the fact that the Lion LT tackled Haynesworth on the play after JZ excepted the penalty that would have forced the Lions to kick a FG and that freed up Stafford to scramble for the first.

The D forced ONE, yes I said ONE three and out and made pathetic Kevin Smith look like Walter Payton. The Lions just flat out kicked or D's butts!! Their OL was better than our DL and their WR were definitely better than our DBs.

Our O is going to struggle with this QB at the helm and the current play caller calling the shots. In previous years, we had a good run game to cover up the fact that our QB isn't any good. That being said, this was more on the D!

I know some people are going to say, well the D only gave up 19, so what do you expect. I expect a D that helps us win. not a D that hurts our chances and that is what we have!

[skinsfan#33]

I don't think the state of the team has been so dire since the Norv yeärs of the mid 1990s. There really is no hope for this team, none.

Wow, you truly have forgotten the Norv years then. We dealt with 7 years of no hope under Norv. You could tell from day one that he was never going to work out.

I'm sure if Zorn had seven years and a QB that plays as well as BJ did in 1999 he could win a division championship too.

This was a total team loss. The D play in the first half was epically bad! They were physically dominated by the Lions! The Lion OL just whipped the D, blew them off the ball. How can you consider yourself a good D when you give up a 99 yard drive to a rookie QB that has only been completing 50% and one of the NFLs worst. Never mind the fact that the Lion LT tackled Haynesworth on the play after JZ excepted the penalty that would have forced the Lions to kick a FG and that freed up Stafford to scramble for the first.

The D forced ONE, yes I said ONE three and out and made pathetic Kevin Smith look like Walter Payton. The Lions just flat out kicked or D's butts!! Their OL was better than our DL and their WR were definitely better than our DBs.

Our O is going to struggle with this QB at the helm and the current play caller calling the shots. In previous years, we had a good run game to cover up the fact that our QB isn't any good. That being said, this was more on the D!

I know some people are going to say, well the D only gave up 19, so what do you expect. I expect a D that helps us win. not a D that hurts our chances and that is what we have!

[RedskinsFreak]

I agree with getting rid of Vinny, but unfortunately, the voice in Snyder's head is Vinny's voice. Is there any doubt that Vinny played a big role in getting rid of Schottenheimer? Vinny is there whispering in his ear all day and night.

You ever wonders why no NFL team went banging on VC's doof during the Marty season? He has NO run-the-operation credentials.

But somehow, he has this job when he's shown he can't do it.

[ArlingtonSkinsFan]

We have the same record as the defending champion Pittsburgh Steelers. And I still think we can beat any team. I just think we can also lose to any team. Here's to 14-2 still being alive.

[nc skins]

haha people are still blaming this on JC. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? the guy threw for 340 yards today.

Our defense lost us the game today. We could not get off the field on 3rd down.

If anyone noticed, when we did our 2 minute drill to score the touchdown that made it 19-14 we were in the no-huddle and campbell looked at his best. He looks at his best out of the shotgun regardless.

this one was not on JC, sorry guys

[frankcal20]

NO WAy you can blame any of this loss on JC. The dude only made plays today.

[NJ-SKINS-FAN]

I can't believe we didn't throw the ball into the endzone!!!! What the heck. I would have been more happy if Jason threw a pick IN THE ENDZONE then whatever you call that last play!!!

THAT GUY IN MINNY THREW THE BALL IN THE ENDZONE (NOT CARING IF IT GETS PICKED) AND SEE WHAT HAPPEND JC17?


HOW DO YOU KNOW THROW THE BALL INTO THE ENDZONE??

YOU EXPECTED TO SCORE LIKE THAT? LAST I CHECKED THE STANFORD BAND WAS NOT COMING ON TO THE FIELD


FYI I BLAME ZORN WITH THE PLAY CALL NOT JC17

[old_school]

JC seems to work with what he is given i don't think he is a bad QB..the real problem is Synder and the GM..As for Zorn he's still new to this if given time who knows; but will he get a chance?

The other really big problem in my opinion is the defense..Why on earth didn't they blitz every play on the rookie QB?They should have set the tone right away that we are coming after you.. That kid was laughing at us shame shame shame

[Redskin in Canada]

Question:

Why on earth didn't they blitz every play on the rookie QB?

Answer:

Calvin Johnson

... and that "rookie QB" ... mmmm ... I wish he was wearing burgundy andd gold. He will become a legitimate franchise QB. Good luck to him.

[Manchester_Redskin]

Zorn is only HC because the top coaches ... Holmgrem, Cowpher and the like said that they wanted some time off. From memory none of them interviewed for the job.

If we replace Campbell next season it will probably have to be via the draft , so to get a good QB we will need to suck this season (have made a good start on this already) or trade up to get one. But even with a good QB will the OL which will be another year older, be able to cope?

[DEHog]

If anyone noticed, when we did our 2 minute drill to score the touchdown that made it 19-14 we were in the no-huddle and campbell looked at his best. He looks at his best out of the shotgun regardless.

Yes I notice..it was a rerun of the first week

[old_school]

ok lets do the math rookie (future hall of fame) as you call him was 0-2 with 5 picks and 1 TD in 1st 2 games and somehow you think our classic bend don't break D from the last 10 years was the answer?

Johnson still got 73 yards and a TD the defense has tried to play it safe this was the kids 3rd game and they used that same weak 4 man rush. Oh and what a pleasure seeing snyder's 100 mill investment lying on the ground in a heap.

[SKINFAN]

I keep waiting to see this team come out with fire and brimdstone that brewed over the past game but I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM DO THAT. It seems the whole demeanor is to go out there and "have fun, and win if we can" when it should be "WIN, and have fun if you can"

[frankcal20]

They can only rush 4 b/c our coverage is just too weak. Danta Hall isn't working out and Smoot isn't good enough to cover anyone. I love Fletch but he's consistently blown up in coverage and Landry tries as hard as he can to cover people, but well - you know.

I'm not here to make excuses but as a TEAM, we are not that good. Individually and on paper, we are very good but that's about it.

I'll be interested to hear Tim Ryan and Pat Ryan's comments on today's game. They seem to have a pretty good analysis of our games and really calls it like it is. Sometimes thats just really hard to hear.

[mastdark81]

zorn - totally predictable. bad coaching job this game....matter of fact every game this year. whats wrong with him seriously? doesn't seem fit to be a playcaller, maybe a good qb coach and teacher but sucks on playcalling. How many times will they run in the redzone to the left, better yet just run to the left in general. We don't do any run sweeps, pitches, in-arounds....totally predictable. I think this is the main reason for the lack of productivity in the run game.

campbell - played above average, however we needed him to play great this game. don't think he's lost any game for us this year but he's no franchise qb.

portis - didn't take himself out much, but we really didn't have the ball too often. would like him to take more of a leadership role. average play

malcolm kelly - i'm pretty sure he has more versatility of routes Zorn!! Let him do more or teams will continue to blank him out. If he doesn't have the versatility then put in someone who can.

santana moss - lost a step in his quickness, had a great game though. Was looking for a screen wr play all day didn't get it. That would had allowed teams to creep back up and then boom hit him for a long one again.

randle el - his hands are impressing me this year...wasn't doing much since Moss took up the slack.

cooley - lions wanted to take him out early and they did. made a few catches but nothing special. had no idea why Zorn had this guy on the field instead of an extra lineman on the 4th down play...bad thing is they ran it left again with cooley as the sealer!!!

oline - pass protected well. didn't run block well but don't blame that entirely on them....running plays too predictable.

Greg Blache - good thing about blache's defense is they don't give up alot of points, bad thing is they don't create great field position for our offense to score....this reminded me of the Giants game. No excuse for letting a rookie quarterback feel comfortable all game long....Just like some feel people have picked up Zorn's tendancies, I believe the same for Blache's playcalling and defensive strategies. They literally ran the ball at will the first half, off of timed delays and our defense did not adjust. lions appeared to take a page out the Gmen's blocking scheme.

Haynesworth - had a injured hip but returned and did a fair job. Lions took advantage of his aggressiveness...as he didn't maintain the gap (not sure if he was suppose to have a certain gap or not)

Griffin - was banged up...not sure what exactly but returned.

daniels - didn't play well.

carter - didn't play well.

mcintosh - did a decent job, would like to see him develop a better passrush.

fletcher - got banged up also, did a decent job while in.
blades - played well with fletcher out.
orakpo - got a sack, but also gave up a crucial pass play (overall excellent excution by lions and great throw)
smoot - played well
rogers - inconsistent
hall - played very well.
safeties - gotta make more plays.

hunter smith - best player on the team lol.

OVERALL - It is essential that we start off fast, we are not a team that can come back nor a team that can overcome any type of turnovers...therefore we are a poor team, lack of effort, no heart, overrated defense, poor offense with poor playcalling, and very very average special teams. Lions beat us early in the first when we couldn't convert a 4th and 1 AGAIN!!

[SKINFAN]

I know they are the same philosophy but I kinda liked Gregg Williams's version better....