The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Did you see Brady last night? 4-8? Are you kidding me? Clearly he has lost the ability to play. He was completely ineffective all of last season. I don't want to hear any excuses about a knee injury. He looked slow and indecisive. If Belicheat says that Brady is looking great in practice, clearly he is lying. When are they going to come to their senses and start playing Hoyer? Hoyer has looked fantastic against the third team defense in preseason - he's obviously the second coming of Joe Montana.

When has Campbell EVER shown that he was even worthy of holding Brady's jock? C'mon man...get real.

Are you kidding? This was a joke. I was poking fun at people overreacting to Campbells 6 pass performance last week.

Really? I knew that you were joking. You did it in a manner that you were comparing Brady and Campbell.

The only comparison being made was the number of pass attempts. 6 or 8 passes in a preseason game with multiple starters not playing isn't enough judge anything. If you attempted to judge Brady on 4-8 with a terribly thrown interception, you would obviously be making a judgement without enough evidence. That's also true for attempting to judge how Campbell will play this season based on 6 attempts in his game, as some on this thread were doing. I can't judge yet how he will play this season, and neither can anyone else.

brad7686 wrote:The team does not succeed in the red zone, and its a lot more than just Campbell

I agree, but that doesn't excuse him for his part in that or mean we ignore it. I agree with a lot of your other comments, we need at least one bigger, stronger receiver to step up, hopefully one of our youngsters will. And we need better blocking.

However, when he had chances he didn't deliver. JC's slow and dubious decisions like throwing to the 8 yard line on 4th down and lack of ability to throw consistently catchable passes exacerbates the other issues. He seems to think as long as he doesn't throw an INT his drive was a success. Not when every drive just ends in "not an INT." I could do that if it was the only goal. If you're playing the Skins in the red zone you stop Portis and dare JC to beat you. Check and mate, field goal attempt.

Tell me seriously you don't remember many drives last year that ended with JC just missing open receivers, throwing at their feet, leading them out of bounds short of the first down, throwing it behind the line of scrimmage on third down and forever, zipping uncatchable passes through the outstretched hands of Moss or other receivers downfield with zero loft. On third and long other teams just play at the first down marker and keep the play in front of them. Yet he still can't find anyone downfield. None of the problems you mentioned prevent him from hitting open receivers.

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Did you see Brady last night? 4-8? Are you kidding me? Clearly he has lost the ability to play. He was completely ineffective all of last season. I don't want to hear any excuses about a knee injury. He looked slow and indecisive. If Belicheat says that Brady is looking great in practice, clearly he is lying. When are they going to come to their senses and start playing Hoyer? Hoyer has looked fantastic against the third team defense in preseason - he's obviously the second coming of Joe Montana.

When has Campbell EVER shown that he was even worthy of holding Brady's jock? C'mon man...get real.

Are you kidding? This was a joke. I was poking fun at people overreacting to Campbells 6 pass performance last week.

Really? I knew that you were joking. You did it in a manner that you were comparing Brady and Campbell.

The only comparison being made was the number of pass attempts. 6 or 8 passes in a preseason game with multiple starters not playing isn't enough judge anything. If you attempted to judge Brady on 4-8 with a terribly thrown interception, you would obviously be making a judgement without enough evidence. That's also true for attempting to judge how Campbell will play this season based on 6 attempts in his game, as some on this thread were doing. I can't judge yet how he will play this season, and neither can anyone else.

So you do understand what it's like reading your posts.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:The team does not succeed in the red zone, and its a lot more than just Campbell

I agree, but that doesn't excuse him for his part in that or mean we ignore it. I agree with a lot of your other comments, we need at least one bigger, stronger receiver to step up, hopefully one of our youngsters will. And we need better blocking.

However, when he had chances he didn't deliver. JC's slow and dubious decisions like throwing to the 8 yard line on 4th down and lack of ability to throw consistently catchable passes exacerbates the other issues. He seems to think as long as he doesn't throw an INT his drive was a success. Not when every drive just ends in "not an INT." I could do that if it was the only goal. If you're playing the Skins in the red zone you stop Portis and dare JC to beat you. Check and mate, field goal attempt.

Tell me seriously you don't remember many drives last year that ended with JC just missing open receivers, throwing at their feet, leading them out of bounds short of the first down, throwing it behind the line of scrimmage on third down and forever, zipping uncatchable passes through the outstretched hands of Moss or other receivers downfield with zero loft. On third and long other teams just play at the first down marker and keep the play in front of them. Yet he still can't find anyone downfield. None of the problems you mentioned prevent him from hitting open receivers.

The whole pass offense was embarrassing. The skins receivers led the league in drop percentage. Campbell was average at best. The line couldn't stop a blitz. There really isn't an elite deep threat on the team. People like to think Moss is, but he isn't anymore, especially when he is doubled every play. When there are bad passes and drops and sacks going on all the time, there won't be success.

Unfortunately, JC showed the same ineptitude in last weeks game that he displayed all last season.
Let's face it, JC is who he is. A mediocre QB at best who will be the downfall of this team.
Just my opinion.

We need ABBC. Any Body But Campbell

SKINS#1 wrote:We need ABBC. Any Body But Campbell

No doubt !! 1 for seven with 10 yards. You can't tell me that we are not in trouble.

kingfish51 wrote:Unfortunately, JC showed the same ineptitude in last weeks game that he displayed all last season.
Let's face it, JC is who he is. A mediocre QB at best who will be the downfall of this team.
Just my opinion.

Ageed

I hope it's his last year, tired of seeing him screw up. That should have been a completion to Kelly. He has ZERO touch on his deep ball. It's useless and that his ONLY "strong" suit.

jEEZ, Chase Daniels lookin good.

CONFIRMED1!!!! CHASE DANIEL IS BETTTER THAN JASON CAMPBELL!!!

SHOOT....wrong thread.

I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

wormer wrote:I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

I hope they don't get rid of Zorn. 2 years just isn't long enough to evaluate a coach (well...one not named Spurrier.)

wormer wrote:I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

The only way that helps is if the owner gets caught in the blast.

Deadskins wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

Champsturf wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Did you see Brady last night? 4-8? Are you kidding me? Clearly he has lost the ability to play. He was completely ineffective all of last season. I don't want to hear any excuses about a knee injury. He looked slow and indecisive. If Belicheat says that Brady is looking great in practice, clearly he is lying. When are they going to come to their senses and start playing Hoyer? Hoyer has looked fantastic against the third team defense in preseason - he's obviously the second coming of Joe Montana.

When has Campbell EVER shown that he was even worthy of holding Brady's jock? C'mon man...get real.

Are you kidding? This was a joke. I was poking fun at people overreacting to Campbells 6 pass performance last week.

Really? I knew that you were joking. You did it in a manner that you were comparing Brady and Campbell.

The only comparison being made was the number of pass attempts. 6 or 8 passes in a preseason game with multiple starters not playing isn't enough judge anything. If you attempted to judge Brady on 4-8 with a terribly thrown interception, you would obviously be making a judgement without enough evidence. That's also true for attempting to judge how Campbell will play this season based on 6 attempts in his game, as some on this thread were doing. I can't judge yet how he will play this season, and neither can anyone else.

So you do understand what it's like reading your posts.

You're one to talk. The only reason I read your post is because of my name being it. Keep on smokin' it.

Am I allowed to vote again? I not only vote that it's his last year, I demand it! The guy has NO moxie, no attitude, no balls.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:jEEZ, Chase Daniels lookin good.

I know, he does look good doesn't he

RedskinsFreak wrote:

wormer wrote:I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

The only way that helps is if the owner gets caught in the blast.

Wishfull thinking, not happening though

RedskinsFreak wrote:

wormer wrote:I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

The only way that helps is if the owner gets caught in the blast.

Wishfull thinking, not happening though

screwgun wrote:

RedskinsFreak wrote:

wormer wrote:I just have this uneasy feeling Danny boy is going to blow up the team after the season.

Zorn: Gone
Campbell: Gone

More rebuilding...RRRRRRR!

The only way that helps is if the owner gets caught in the blast.

Wishfull thinking, not happening though

I don't see Campbell going as meeting the standard of "blow up the team." I see that as inevitable. As a competent decision even. I am not scared that this is the pre-season and he's not playing well, I"m scared that he's showing the same weaknesses he showed through his entire career. I'd like to see some evidence that he learned something in the off season that he was working on. Regardless, he is our only true option in game 1, but the little flicker of flame of hope is in a stiff breeze right now.

As for Zorn, I realize it's more "fun" (euphemism for intellectually lazy) to go by Snyder's reputation then the fact that he's fired one coach that he hired. There just is no other reason to say that Zorn is in "trouble" unless the season warrants it. I don't see him as trouble unless we start 6-2 again and miss the playoffs again. But then I'm relying on irrelevant facts instead of a media hyped reputation. Such a weak argument I know.

I think that JC will be fine. I think it is very premature to say that this is what it is. The season is over, etc based off of a total of 5 drives - this being the first real game of planning and a full staff there. You also have to remember that he is going against some of the toughest defenses in the NFL. We are talking about the Steelers and Ravens here. On Thursday, we play against New England too. So for what its worth, we will be battle tested and I hope that this helps us going into the regular season.

I have faith in Jason Campbell and no one is going to be able to change my opinion on it......

....can't wait for all the "Chase Daniel for QB" calls on espn 980 tomorrow morning.

frankcal20 wrote:I think that JC will be fine. I think it is very premature to say that this is what it is. The season is over, etc based off of a total of 5 drives - this being the first real game of planning and a full staff there. You also have to remember that he is going against some of the toughest defenses in the NFL. We are talking about the Steelers and Ravens here. On Thursday, we play against New England too. So for what its worth, we will be battle tested and I hope that this helps us going into the regular season.

I have faith in Jason Campbell and no one is going to be able to change my opinion on it......

....can't wait for all the "Chase Daniel for QB" calls on espn 980 tomorrow morning.

As for me Frank, and I know you didn't just address me, I agree the season is not over. I said our D is better and our O at least should be no worse. I also am not calling for Chase Daniel but have continued to say JC should be the starter and I would almost certainly keep him there as long as he's not worse then last year until the season is over and we're out of the playoffs. We have no other option. I am just getting skeptical about JC's ability to complete passes.

But I will say if JC comes through, you're in a great position to tell us all you told us so!

I sincerely hope that day comes and will gladly eat crow. I think a lot of people use these arguments and phrase it they were just glad they were wrong, they were being prudent which means they weren't really wrong somehow. I for one will say if you're right I WAS wrong.

SnyderSucks wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:So should every team that doesn't have a pro bowler dump their QB until they find one?

What a pointless question. That is so not the discussion. First of all almost everyone is saying JC should start this year, at least at the start of the season. Second of all a lot of us stuck with him to give him a real chance. I was defending him until...NOW...for example. And like the others I still want him to start, I'm just saying I'm near the end of my chances without getting more in return in performance then we've been getting from him.

Your question isn't a question, it's an agenda. If you want to argue that JC could be the answer argue that, don't play games with contrived questions that miss the discussion.

I don't think it is pointless at all. Campbell has not played at a pro bowl level, but he hasn't been a disaster. You say you are near the end of your chances without getting more in return. I take that to mean you would advocate replacing him after the season if he isn't substantially better. My point is that even if he's no better this year than last, he's still a middle of the pack NFL QB. If they dump him for a draft pick, the odds are pretty high that the draft pick is substantially worse than Campbell, and only marginal that he would be substantially better.

I'd beg to differ. Campbell has been and continues to be a "disaster". Choosing him as a "franchise QB" is a proven mistake at this point, yet he continues to be treated LIKE a "franchise QB". And aside from an injury that allowed the Redskins to reach the playoffs in 2007, the offense has been pathetic, with only brief flashes of competence that some view as potential future greatness instead of what it really was ... perpetual ineffectiveness.

Now I wouldn't classify Collins as anything more than a reasonably capable player who makes the best of his limited talent, but he is, and has been a better QB, which he proved in 2007. That should have been recognized as the RED FLAG that it was beginning 2008. But it wasn't, and Campbell was declared the starter without a hint of competition. The corner the Redskins painted themselves into by putting all of their eggs in Campbell's basket is a self inflicted wound that they seem willing to continue until yet another season (2009) is a lost cause just as they surely would have done in 2007 had Campbell not been injured.

Of course, Collins is not the long term solution. That's obvious. But Campbell isn't either, given the attempts to replace him in the offseason. And aside from a miraculous 2009 season by Campbell (anyone see that as a remote possibility?), the Redskins won't be resigning him to a big contract, and he won't re-up for backup pay. So he's most likely gone after this year anyway. So why proceed as if he is the future when the odds are that his days are already numbered?

Given the upgrades to an already stout defense .. a shorn up O-line and the talent on offense (Portis, ey, Moss, Kelley, Davis, Betts, Mitchell), this team has the personnel to make the playoffs given "reasonable" production on offense (i.e. POINTS, not footwork or potential or strong arm). Collins has proven that he can deliver the points, while Campbell continues to prove he can't.

Why not put Collins in there now? He might provide the same level of competence he did in 2007, which would be significantly better than what we've seen from Campbell.

RayNAustin wrote:Choosing him as a "franchise QB" is a proven mistake at this point, yet he continues to be treated LIKE a "franchise QB"

No he isn't. He is treated as the starter. If he were treated as the franchise QB we wouldn't have been inquiring about Cutler and Sanchez. If he were being treated as the franchise QB we'd at least be talking about re-signing him and there isn't a peep. It's obvious management doesn't have interest in signing him to a big contract (thank God) or belief he'd sign a small one at this point. So we are wait and see, obviously not remotely how you treat a "franchise QB." This sort of ridiculous exaggeration just weakens your argument.

RayNAustin wrote:Why not put Collins in there now? He might provide the same level of competence he did in 2007, which would be significantly better than what we've seen from Campbell.

I'm a Michigan native and alum and obviously not anti-Collins. But TC has zero upside at this point, we just hope he doesn't show his age. TC will be ready to go if JC stinks up the joint. So the answer to your question is even if skepticism is growing we should be giving JC the chance to show us he is getting it and if he isn't TC is ready and we lost nothing in the meantime. If TC is going to start, something he's done little of in his career, shortening the 16 game seasons probably prudent anyway. Remember when Brunnel had his one actual good year he was just spent when the playoffs came. Either way if we win it's going to be because of the D.