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Kiper on Cutler

Kiper says Cassel would have been an "upgrade" over Cutler and that Cutler is, to put it mildly, overrated.

"[Cutler] throws one pass, he's a Hall of Famer," Kiper says. "I've seen the media put him in the Hall of Fame. I had to run to the bathroom quick. It was making me ill. I've been hearing this overhype.

"This guy was overhyped at the combine, he was overhyped at Senior Bowl week, he's been overhyped before he was drafted. The media, they love Jay Cutler. Jay Cutler can do no wrong. I've been saying he's overrated since day one.

Kiper compares Cutler to Jeff George. "Jeff George had a great arm, and Jeff George had a lot of great games in this league, and people were putting Jeff George in the HOF early in his career," Kiper says. "So I'm just telling you, this is ridiculous."

Also, Cutler once said he had a better arm than John Elway. Not surprisingly, Kiper isn't a big fan of that comment, either. "So what? Who cares? Why would you make a comparison to John Elway? That could be taken like you're in a position to critique the quarterback that is a legend."

fleetus wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I have a question.

If Jason is better or just as good as Cutler? Than why hasn't anyone offered us 2 first round picks for him? They know we want to get rid of him...

It is more complicated than that. Just to gloss over the obvious basics for you:

1. Cutler has Pro Bowl physical talent above what JC has shown, but he's not as intelligent, mature or with the leadership that JC has. Teams are always willing to throw money at a big arm because they all think they can coach the guy up. Why else did Jeff George get so many chances to prove he sucked?
2. McDaniels runs a completely different system. He wasn't high on Cutler in his system either. Cassel, Orton and Quinn were all viewed as better fits than Cutler or Campbell in his system.
3. Cutler has benefited from several things JC never has had, 1) good OL protection, 2) Great WR's, 3) two years or more in the same system.
4. Bears greatly overpaid for Cutler. Who knows if anyone else even offered two 1st's? No matter though, we'll see how Cutler turns out soon enough.

I don't think JC is a slam dunk Pro Bowler. But he deserves 2009 to show what he can do in Zorns system. I just think that if the FO would stop "F"-in around with different coaches every year and give JC a couple of years with the same system, we could finally make a meaningful judgment on him. They always look for the freakin' shortcut answer. Buy a coach, buy a free agent, trade away draft picks. Just let the thing marinate a little Why draft JC if you're never gonna give him two years with one system? Why hire Zorn if you're gonna hand him another new QB this year, then fire him for Shanahan or whoever next year? Just let it rest for a year, seriously.

If JC doesn't knock on the door of the Pro Bowl this year, finish in the top 5 QB's in the NFC, and/or play at a higher level where he is a regular factor in winning games through passing, then I will be right there saying we need to find another QB. Like I've said before, I'm not against drafting a rookie either. But trading for Cutler would've been a big mistake and we wouldn't have been better off as a result.

You hit the nail on the head. The upside for JC17 is our receivers can't get any worse there is only one direction to go and that is up. Problem is though my gut feeling tells me Jason will not get the chance. He will be traded or cut because clearly the FO has no faith. Then we will still have most of the same problems and then Zorn gets cut loose.We will probably draft another qb or corner. Something we really don't need but thats how it usually happens. We will be forever starting over unless like you say JC has one hell of a year

keep reading that one of the major contributing factors to the poor finish last year was the OL. Well its gonna be pretty much the same OL as last year (with maybe one upgrade) only it will be another year older.

I dont read much about us pursuing OL'men in FA so how can we expect Campbell to improve when hes going to have the same major disadvantage (an aging line) as last time?

Manchester_Redskin wrote:keep reading that one of the major contributing factors to the poor finish last year was the OL. Well its gonna be pretty much the same OL as last year (with maybe one upgrade) only it will be another year older.

I dont read much about us pursuing OL'men in FA so how can we expect Campbell to improve when hes going to have the same major disadvantage (an aging line) as last time?

If we get Oher/A. Smith to go with Dockery on the OLine I think it will be much improved.

SkinsSince96 wrote:

Manchester_Redskin wrote:keep reading that one of the major contributing factors to the poor finish last year was the OL. Well its gonna be pretty much the same OL as last year (with maybe one upgrade) only it will be another year older.

I dont read much about us pursuing OL'men in FA so how can we expect Campbell to improve when hes going to have the same major disadvantage (an aging line) as last time?

If we get Oher/A. Smith to go with Dockery on the OLine I think it will be much improved.

Yeah, plus the main improvement we are hoping for is JC knowing the offense better and the rookie WR's making some sort of contribution. Hopefully Dock and maybe a rookie help give the line more durability and depth. Whatever you say about Dock, he is durable.

I am really hoping for a tackle at #13... someone to keep JC or whoever will be our next QB off his back.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I am really hoping for a tackle at #13... someone to keep JC or whoever will be our next QB off his back.

Or a guard we need them all

this is just amazing - we were not very good on offense last year (anemic comes to mind) and it is going to take a few years to get an offense that is going to have both the depth and cohesion we need - this is not something that can just change magically from one season to another especially with what we have right now.

I find it hard to believe that we might get lucky enough to add a future all world tackle AND the following:

Campbell is going to be a lot better - not just capable but a whole lot better, right.

Jansen is going to be a lot better - let's face it the rookie is not starting over Jansen.

The addition of Dockery is going to make the left side magic again

Somehow we willl also find a true #1 so that Moss who is a great #2 can be more effective.

The middle of our line is just going to somehow become a powerhouse in the run game again

give me a break - the offense we saw here last year was anemic and is going to take years to improve - that is why I am glad we did not take a future star like Cutler - we are not ready yet - we need to start building this offense and we need both #1 picks to do that PLUS we need to make the best choices on who we bring into this group.

we have a long way to go my friends

Skinsfan55 wrote:I am really hoping for a tackle at #13... someone to keep JC or whoever will be our next QB off his back.

Campbell is not the problem and he certainly is not the answer - he just needs to play his heart out next year while we start to rebuild this offense and put an effective QB in charge - Campbell just needs to keep doing what he has always done - he's a good QB he's just not good enough.

no worries - we'll find someone OR Snyder will buy one

SkinsJock wrote:I find it hard to believe that we might get lucky enough to add a future all world tackle AND the following:

Campbell is going to be a lot better - not just capable but a whole lot better, right.

Jansen is going to be a lot better - let's face it the rookie is not starting over Jansen.

The addition of Dockery is going to make the left side magic again

Somehow we willl also find a true #1 so that Moss who is a great #2 can be more effective.

The middle of our line is just going to somehow become a powerhouse in the run game again

- If we get Oher or Smith that will help our offensive line alot.
- I dont know if Campbell is going to be "a whole lot better" but he should have a career year in a contract year.
- If we draft Oher or Smith they will start at RT week 1. It has been reported numberous times that the Skins do not want Jansen starting at RT.
- Dockery was a pretty good LG for us. He will have his share of penalties but he should be a solid piece to the line.
- I dont think we will find a true #1 but hopefully Devin Thomas can step up and make some plays beside Moss.
- The offensive line played great the first 8 games in the running game. Throw in Dockery and either Oher/Smith at RT and I think the offensive line as a whole is alot better then they were the last 8 games of 2008.

Im not saying the offense will be top 10 but if we draft a OT at 13, and players like Dockery, Devin Thomas, and Campbell step up there games we should have a improved offense than last years verison.

I would expect a lot of improvement over last year - a huge improvement for the next couple of years will put us in the competitive stage again, maybe.

this offense needs a whole lot of improvement to be young and fast again - we are not going to get there with this group

I love these guys - I am just pointing out the reality - we were not bad on offense we were terrible - we had trouble beating the worst teams - do not bring up how lucky we were against some teams - you need to keep in mind we were not effective when we needed to be

Zorn will be better and Campbell will be a whole lot better but Campbell cannot be who he is not and the fact is he's not a big time QB, that's all.

we all will be better but that is of little consolation when it's not good enough to be really good.

SkinsJock wrote:we all will be better but that is of little consolation when it's not good enough to be really good.

If the offense finishes in the middle of the pack and the defense is top 5 id think we have a good shot at winning the division or at the very least a playoff berth.

I think if we draft a RT and Dockery steps up at LG and can play like he did in DC his first go around we should have a improved offense. It really all falls on Campbell though.

fleetus wrote:Cutler has Pro Bowl physical talent above what JC has shown, but he's not as intelligent, mature or with the leadership that JC has.

Intelligence? Let's see JC make some good audibles, and start adjusting blocking schemes at the line. What instances has he proven his football intelligence?

Leadership? If the Skins have had that on offense, I don't want to see what happens when it goes bad.

fleetus wrote:I don't think JC is a slam dunk Pro Bowler. But he deserves 2009 to show what he can do in Zorns system.

Now I know there's some unreasonable bias. The rest of us are hoping, not even expecting, that he can win games. Why even bring up the words "Pro Bowl"? You better place your bets now if you think that's a possibility because I think you'll get some pretty good odds on that one.

dlc wrote:Now I know there's some unreasonable bias. The rest of us are hoping, not even expecting, that he can win games. Why even bring up the words "Pro Bowl"? You better place your bets now if you think that's a possibility because I think you'll get some pretty good odds on that one.

I have no pony is this race, but I think we put to much emphasis or creditability into the status a player has after he's a "pro bowler." The pro bowl selection system is flawed, and not everyone voted/selected to the game is deserving.

I'm just glad this whole bru-ha-ha is over! Hopefully, Jason will use this new "chip on his shoulder" as something to propel him over the top. Also, some new blood in the trenches (on both sides) wouldn't hurt, either.

Guys! I am all for moving on and am kind of glad that we chose not to give up the 2 #1 picks - in my opinion we could have and we might have secured a great QB (Cutler) but there are too many "issues" for me with that route and I think & truly hope that Cerrato and his scouts can come up with a future great player with this year's #13 pick and next year's #1 - now that plus making sure that the players we add here in the next 2 years (thru the draft, trades or free agency) are both a really great fit and make the other players and themselves better players while they are here.

Other teams have FOs that help their teams - we need this FO to do it or leave

The reality is we are not a bad team and can get lucky and win some games but in order to be both good and consistent winners, we need to re-build this team and that can only happen with some major changes.

Give it some time.

First challenge is we need a young really dominant offensive line - that cannot happen in a year or 2, it takes years! - that is the problem here - we do not give anyone (coach or player) the time to develop or establish any consistency. I don't care who the QB is here, if he has no time to get used to the coach, the system and the other players he will not be as good as he can be. That being said Campbell just does not have that level of potential. Cutler or the next HOF QB is not going to be as good a player here if we keep changing systems, coaches and the supporting cast.


We need Snyder to be more patient - I hope that Zorn is not just out of here if Campbell does not become great this year because that is not happening and the only reason Zorn should leave is because he cannot be a great coach - unfortunately with Snyder, the player or coach is replaced regardless of talent or potential if there is someone else available who looks like a shiny new "toy".


I am going to be very hopeful that we can get a great RT this year and add a few more players who become contributors with the other picks - I will be patient. I am hopeful that things can become good again here but Snyder needs to stop being so impetuous and help Cerrato find the best NFL talent evaluators and bring them here to help us get a whole lot better over the next few years.

anyone who thinks we have a prayer of winning this division with only some improvement to the offense we had last year is delusional. The new RT and Dock will help. Campbell and Zorn will be better. We need a whole new line guys and adding the players and getting the cohesion you need is not going to happen this year or next.

I am sure we can do it and we need to start now that is why I am glad we have that #13 pick - adding a possible super QB is not going to help - we'll need one very soon but we also need a lot of other players as well.

HAIL

thedcnative wrote:I'm just glad this whole bru-ha-ha is over! Hopefully, Jason will use this new "chip on his shoulder" as something to propel him over the top. Also, some new blood in the trenches (on both sides) wouldn't hurt, either.

Amen my Redskin Brutha. Time to refocus to the 13th pick of the draft coming up. If somehow we get one of the top 4 OTs, Brian Orakpo, or Everette Brown id be very happy.