The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The only decisions I disagreed with at the time they were made are (v) and (vi) -- and that still means I agreed with almost all of the decisions. I think I am doing better than most of the critics here. If memory serves me correctly just about all of Washington were ready to run Marty out of town and embrace Ball Coach like mindless lemmings. And now like mindless hypocrits you look back and slam Snyder for not knowing what he was doing. But did you or didn't you support the decision at the time and under the circumstances?

First of all, we are just fans. Snyder, Vinny, and the rest of the front office are supposed to be professionals. Unfortunately, most of the time they act like total morons and screw things up. The entire Giants fan base and media were screaming for Coughlin to be fired last year, but NY actually has a competent front office and they didn't succumb to the pressure and ended up winning a Super Bowl. And it's not just the coaching decisions that Snyder/Vinny have made, it's the endless wasting of draft picks and unnecessary signing of free agents that contributes to the criticism of them as well. Add in Snyder's childlike behavior (the ice cream incident with Nolan) and insane prices that fans pay for an inferior product, and you are going to have a lot of people that don't like Snyder and are skeptical of the things that he does.

Snout wrote:To all the know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks who continually slam Snyder, please answer this question: How many of the following head coaching decisions did you oppose at the time they were made:

(i) The decision to give Norv one more chance and bring in veteran free agents to give the team an extra boost?
(ii) The decision to fire Norv before the season end
(iii) The decision to name Terry Robiskie as interim head coach
(iv) The decision to hire Schottenheimer and turn over full control to "a guy who knows football"
(v) The decision to fire Schottenheimer when he would not give up control over personnel decisions
(vi) The decision to hire Ball Coach
(vii) The decision to hire Gibbs

The only decisions I disagreed with at the time they were made are (v) and (vi) -- and that still means I agreed with almost all of the decisions. I think I am doing better than most of the critics here. If memory serves me correctly just about all of Washington was ready to run Marty out of town and embrace Ball Coach like mindless lemmings. And now like mindless hypocrits you look back and slam Snyder for not knowing what he was doing. But did you or didn't you support the decision at the time and under the circumstances?

That's a fair question Snout. The answer is, I supported ALL of Snyder's head coaching changes up until Gibbs left. I was a great supporter of Snyder simply because I did not suspect that such a good businessman could be such a poor owner, but as in all cases at some point blind faith has to yield to the stench of failure, and pointed questions have to be asked. And the answers are not good.

It appears that Snyder likes to play GM, and would rather the team fail with himself as God-like fantasy football league owner than succeed under someone else (i.e., a professional). Unlike the far wiser Jack Kent Cooke, who hired a GM and let a qualified professional GM pick the coach and all the players, Danny-boy just wants to play with his toy. Like a little boy with the best toy in the neighborhood, the Danny just can't leave it alone.

This is not exactly a big secret, my friend. In fact, most sportswriters and NFL professional professionals seem to be aware of it, with only a few delusional people claiming to be fans still oblivious to it. If you want to have blind faith, so be it, but don't claim it's anything but.

old-timer wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:I'm throwing my support for Zorn. But thanks for your 2 cents, which is about all that was worth. Whatever...

Yeah, fine. You should just preface all your posts with the admission that you have no ability to think critically about Dan Snyder and his horde of yes-men headed by Vinny the Rat and Karl Swanson (the only things perennially in common with Redskins failure), and how you will just mindlessly hope for success after every failed season.

Hey, thanks for the advice. And your posts reminded me of something... folks, always make sure to get enough fiber in your diet.

By the way, Mr. old-timer... for comparison purposes, what team do you own and what sports franchise do you manage? You know, for comparison purposes.

And I do think critical of Snyder when justified. Snyder is a clown and Vinny is an idiot, yeah, I got it. Thanks for the news flash and the offering of something original.

old-timer wrote:

Snout wrote:To all the know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks who continually slam Snyder, please answer this question: How many of the following head coaching decisions did you oppose at the time they were made:

(i) The decision to give Norv one more chance and bring in veteran free agents to give the team an extra boost?
(ii) The decision to fire Norv before the season end
(iii) The decision to name Terry Robiskie as interim head coach
(iv) The decision to hire Schottenheimer and turn over full control to "a guy who knows football"
(v) The decision to fire Schottenheimer when he would not give up control over personnel decisions
(vi) The decision to hire Ball Coach
(vii) The decision to hire Gibbs

The only decisions I disagreed with at the time they were made are (v) and (vi) -- and that still means I agreed with almost all of the decisions. I think I am doing better than most of the critics here. If memory serves me correctly just about all of Washington was ready to run Marty out of town and embrace Ball Coach like mindless lemmings. And now like mindless hypocrits you look back and slam Snyder for not knowing what he was doing. But did you or didn't you support the decision at the time and under the circumstances?

That's a fair question Snout. The answer is, I supported ALL of Snyder's head coaching changes up until Gibbs left. I was a great supporter of Snyder simply because I did not suspect that such a good businessman could be such a poor owner, but as in all cases at some point blind faith has to yield to the stench of failure, and pointed questions have to be asked. And the answers are not good.

It appears that Snyder likes to play GM, and would rather the team fail with himself as God-like fantasy football league owner than succeed under someone else (i.e., a professional). Unlike the far wiser Jack Kent Cooke, who hired a GM and let a qualified professional GM pick the coach and all the players, Danny-boy just wants to play with his toy. Like a little boy with the best toy in the neighborhood, the Danny just can't leave it alone.

This is not exactly a big secret, my friend. In fact, most sportswriters and NFL professional professionals seem to be aware of it, with only a few delusional people claiming to be fans still oblivious to it. If you want to have blind faith, so be it, but don't claim it's anything but.

What you fail to realize is that we're Redskin fans, not Snyder fans. We can't do anything about that. Do we all agree with every move Snyder has made? Of course not. But at the end of the day, it's about the REDSKINS, not Snyder.

SkinsFreak wrote:

old-timer wrote:

Snout wrote:To all the know-it-all Monday morning quarterbacks who continually slam Snyder, please answer this question: How many of the following head coaching decisions did you oppose at the time they were made:

(i) The decision to give Norv one more chance and bring in veteran free agents to give the team an extra boost?
(ii) The decision to fire Norv before the season end
(iii) The decision to name Terry Robiskie as interim head coach
(iv) The decision to hire Schottenheimer and turn over full control to "a guy who knows football"
(v) The decision to fire Schottenheimer when he would not give up control over personnel decisions
(vi) The decision to hire Ball Coach
(vii) The decision to hire Gibbs

The only decisions I disagreed with at the time they were made are (v) and (vi) -- and that still means I agreed with almost all of the decisions. I think I am doing better than most of the critics here. If memory serves me correctly just about all of Washington was ready to run Marty out of town and embrace Ball Coach like mindless lemmings. And now like mindless hypocrits you look back and slam Snyder for not knowing what he was doing. But did you or didn't you support the decision at the time and under the circumstances?

That's a fair question Snout. The answer is, I supported ALL of Snyder's head coaching changes up until Gibbs left. I was a great supporter of Snyder simply because I did not suspect that such a good businessman could be such a poor owner, but as in all cases at some point blind faith has to yield to the stench of failure, and pointed questions have to be asked. And the answers are not good.

It appears that Snyder likes to play GM, and would rather the team fail with himself as God-like fantasy football league owner than succeed under someone else (i.e., a professional). Unlike the far wiser Jack Kent Cooke, who hired a GM and let a qualified professional GM pick the coach and all the players, Danny-boy just wants to play with his toy. Like a little boy with the best toy in the neighborhood, the Danny just can't leave it alone.

This is not exactly a big secret, my friend. In fact, most sportswriters and NFL professional professionals seem to be aware of it, with only a few delusional people claiming to be fans still oblivious to it. If you want to have blind faith, so be it, but don't claim it's anything but.

What you fail to realize is that we're Redskin fans, not Snyder fans. We can't do anything about that. Do we all agree with every move Snyder has made? Of course not. But at the end of the day, it's about the REDSKINS, not Snyder.

That's exactly my question. Are you a Redskins fan, or are you a Snyder fan? Because I don't see how any real Redskins fan can look at the futility of the last 8 seasons and not be upset at the mess Snyder has made of this team. Now we've got Gibbs gone, a brand new coach who most people would say is obviously unqualified and at the least we're looking at two MORE years of rebuilding. We've had nothing but failure the last 8 years, years in which other teams like the Cowboys and Giants and Eagles have risen to relative greatness and walked all over us. Now this great Redskins team, with its great tradition and fan base is so devalued that the best coaching candidates won't even talk to us. All of this because of Snyder and his spoiled rich kid complex and his herd of disgusting yes men. Anyone who doesn't get angry about that and comes here sounding like Shirley Temple is not a true fan IMHO. You might as well go put on your cheerleader outfit if that's all you're here for.

????

old-timer wrote: He ended up with Jim Zorn because all the qualified people told him and Vinny the Rat to go take their tinker toys and go fly a kite.

Who are all these qualified people who told Danny to fly a kite? Carroll said he wasn't interested. He would be stupid to leave the job he has anyway. That is at least until the NCAA starts busting his hump over violations. Mora said he wasn't interested because he was happy and apparently the heir apparent to the Seahawks anyway. Those are the only two "qualified" guys I even heard say not interested, and I don't remember them being offered the job anyway. If it did come down to newbies, Spags and Zorn, who is to say who the right choice is. Give the man credit for willing to take a chance. If it works out we will all be calling him a genus. If it doesn't we can all bash him after next season. If you want a partnership in the franchise move to Green Bay. This is Danny's team and he ain't letting go regardless of what we think.

LOSTHOG wrote:... This is Danny's team and he ain't letting go regardless of what we think.

You do realize that many fans will vote with their feet if this gamble does not work, right?

If the Team was synonymous with the owner, many of us would have been gone long time ago. And ALL he has to do is hire a knowledgeable GM. That's it.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

LOSTHOG wrote:

old-timer wrote:... This is Danny's team and he ain't letting go regardless of what we think.

You do realize that many fans will vote with their feet if this gamble does not work, right?

That's fine with me. I follow the Redskins. I don't need a bunch of petulant strap-hangers ruining the ride on the bandwagon for the rest of us. ALL coaching hires are gambles... even the return of the best coach in Redskins history...

I am optimistic that Jim Zorn will be a good coach - mainly because he can't do a worse job than Gibbs in crucial game time decisions. (no disrespect to Joe)

Also, I've felt like the previous ten years of experienced coaches have tried too hard (probably due to unrealistic expectations) and just made things too complicated. We may just need some fresh blood (with lower fan expectations) to get us where we want to be.

Congrats, Jim Zorn!

CONGRATS TO JIM ZORN!!!

best of luck ....i know you will pour heart body and mind into this job...youve been given(earned) the oppurtunity of lifetime...and just by early reports on your character the Redskins seem to be very lucky we will now call you the face of our franchise oh and dont worry about def and ST danny smith and Blache got your back


i support you...Best of Luck JIMMY!!!.....AND HAIL

guys were going to be alright

old-timer wrote:That's exactly my question. Are you a Redskins fan, or are you a Snyder fan? Because I don't see how any real Redskins fan can look at the futility of the last 8 seasons and not be upset at the mess Snyder has made of this team. Now we've got Gibbs gone, a brand new coach who most people would say is obviously unqualified and at the least we're looking at two MORE years of rebuilding. We've had nothing but failure the last 8 years, years in which other teams like the Cowboys and Giants and Eagles have risen to relative greatness and walked all over us. Now this great Redskins team, with its great tradition and fan base is so devalued that the best coaching candidates won't even talk to us. All of this because of Snyder and his spoiled rich kid complex and his herd of disgusting yes men. Anyone who doesn't get angry about that and comes here sounding like Shirley Temple is not a true fan IMHO. You might as well go put on your cheerleader outfit if that's all you're here for.

The mess Snyder made of the team? What are you talking about? For the last four years he has handed the keys to Gibbs. He gave Gibbs everything he asked for. Should he have done things differently? Should he have said "Sorry Joe, but I will not give you the final say over personnel decisions." If he had said that, people would be bitching that he was too hands on and a meddler. If Joe had said "Get me a real GM", do you really think Snyder would have refused?

Why are some people so obsessed with the need to blame someone when things don't work out? Don't people realize that even when you make all the right decisions, things don't always work out the way you want? Gibbs' offense lacked creativity and failed to score enough points. Should we blame Snyder for that? Al Saunders offense did not work out so well either. Should we blame Snyder for that too? The defense did well three out of four years. How can we figure out a way to blame Snyder for the one bad year? We lost half the offensive line to injuries last season. What a mess Snyder made of things last year!

It is too simplistic and immature to insist on finding someone to blame. Making that statement does not make me a "Snyder fan" instead of a "Redskins fan".

Why are you so pessimistic about next year? Why do you think it will be years before the team is competitive again? Do first year head coaches always fail? Aren't there surprises in the NFL every single season? Why not give the owner, the returning players, the returning coaches, and the new head coach more of a chance?

All skins fans hope for the best. But the EXPECTATIONS about this hiring are quite different. Some are comparing this already with the third coming of Joe Gibbs. Others are making guarantees of doom and gloom. Maybe a dosis of REALITY is needed from the "petulant strap-hangers ruining the ride on the bandwagon for the rest of you" who are already counting the soon to come Vince Lombardi Trophies.

The truth may be somewhere in between but one thing is for sure: It is going to take TIME to implement a new West Coast style offense. The HC would have benefited from greater experience but it is what it is. Let us hope that the owner has enough patience to build a winner before he "ensures continuity" once again.

The burden of proof is on the Front Office for sure. The hiring process was deservedly ridiculed league-wide. We need to support the team on the field for sure. We will have plenty of time to analyze their record.

Redskin in Canada wrote:All skins fans hope for the best. But the EXPECTATIONS about this hiring are quite different. Some are comparing this already with the third coming of Joe Gibbs. Others are making guarantees of doom and gloom. Maybe a dosis of REALITY is needed from the "petulant strap-hangers ruining the ride on the bandwagon for the rest of you" who are already counting the soon to come Vince Lombardi Trophies.

The truth may be somewhere in between but one thing is for sure: It is going to take TIME to implement a new West Coast style offense. The HC would have benefited from greater experience but it is what it is. Let us hope that the owner has enough patience to build a winner before he "ensures continuity" once again.

The burden of proof is on the Front Office for sure. The hiring process was deservedly ridiculed league-wide. We need to support the team on the field for sure. We will have plenty of time to analyze their record.

You make some very good points. But does Danny have the patience though???? It's obvious that this team needed to hire a HC and Zorn is who he is and his tenure will be what it is but if this owner wants to really put together something special that would span over time, he needs to step back and get qualified NFL front office personnel. Like I said in the Sally Jenkins thread, look across the major sports at those champions or past champions. All had one thing in common. A great front office. From the Bulls dynasty in the 90's to the Patriots current run, even now down to NASCAR with Hendrick Motorsports and their stable of racers. The front offices of those champions recognize talent and do what is necessary to get it, built on it, coach it, and become champions. We don't have that here. We have a revolving door of players and coaches that can never build any sort of momentum over time. Gibbs came back, was given the keys to the jet and finished below .500. Yes, some good draft picks, a few free agents and a offensive guru were picked up but it obviously was either not enough, not the time, or the wrong decisions. Or maybe it was Gibbs the quasi-GM getting lost in translation with Gibbs the HC.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall and hear what some of these successful GM's are doing with their teams or saying about this one.

roybus14 wrote: Gibbs came back, was given the keys to the jet and finished below .500. Yes, some good draft picks, a few free agents and a offensive guru were picked up but it obviously was either not enough, not the time, or the wrong decisions. Or maybe it was Gibbs the quasi-GM getting lost in translation with Gibbs the HC.

I think you are dead on with you analysis, and I really respect the fact that you put some of the blame on Gibbs rather than the easiest target. I think that we do need to upgrade the front office, but I refuse to join the lemmings who ignore history, give Gibbs as President a free pass, and try to put all the blame on Snyder.

As most of you know, I am not a Snyder fan per se. I like the fact that he grew up (well, he aged) a Redskins fan and then he bought the team. I also have to acknowledge the fact that at one time the Washington Redskins were the #1 sports franchise in the world - an "idiot" could not make that happen.

However I am firmly against the way he runs/owns the team and feel that we would be better off with an owner that lets NFL people run this franchise.
Reality is that is not going to happen soon and if this new HC "works" or if we become successful again it may never change.

Snyder is judged (rightly so) by what he has done but let's assume we only look at the last 5 years We were in dire straits and nothing our FO tried really worked - back came Gibbs - in hindsight not a great "return" but Gibbs did get the team back on track and we now are approaching an off-season with most of our draft picks and a salary cap that while still bad (this was going to take a millenium to recover from anyway!) is somewhat manageable when we do what we have to here SO - Gibbs is a good move by Snyder

Next Snyder's recent (before Gibbs retirement) actions have been behind the scenes because Gibbs was in charge - another good move by Snyder - MAYBE the "stupid" owner is learning.

Then the apparent debacle with the HC search AND the very concerning "recognition" that Cerrato (the weasel) will continue as the main personnel guy - these are recent moves and may be judged to be mistakes BUT this is yet to be truly evaluated, and that does not happen until the product gets on the field. Lets just hold the good or bad move call for a second.

The Washington Redskins under Zorn still have Blache running the defense (maybe better but certainly very much like Williams); Danny Smith in charge of Special Teams and now Zorn and some new offensive game planning on offense.
This might not be as bad as people are thinking - our offense needed something IMO AND Bugel and a bunch of guys on the "basic" side of how a effective offensive line works, are still here - IF this turns into not such a rebuilding year (as some expect) and the team both adds the players it needs AND (BIG IF, I know) they work out - then the recent "managing" of the team by the "stupid" owner and his weasel sidekick have to be given an "atta-boy"

I know the pundits all want the team and Snyder to follow the "proven" methods for success but this might not be as bad as many are projecting -This team needed more than just a new Head Coach to replace Gibbs, we need a bit of a shake up and a change from the staid stuff we saw a lot of this year!
The only problem I really am concerned about is, long term I am convinced we do not stand a better chance of success with weasel Cerrato and his group finding the correct talent.

Hopefully Snyder adds a GM soon and then we might all look at him with a slightly different idea than we have now.

I really don't know how to feel about this. So I have compiled my favorite quotes from this thread because it made me laugh and feel good.

gay4pacman wrote:Is anybody feeling Zorny as hell right now?

I am the first in line to become an official Zorn Dog.

ZORN TO BE WIIIIIIILD!!

Gibbs4Life wrote:The Zorn Identity

gay4pacman wrote:Zorn in the USA

BearSkins wrote:What an absolutely baffling move.

The Hogster wrote:Jimmy Crat Zorn.

Zorn to be bad.

The Zorning After.

Hard Core Zorn.

Thank you.

Zornicology 101 -
Zorn sounded as if he's going to be a tough dicipline guy. I'm not unhappy with the move at all. Seems to be a good fit - and a QB coach is needed MOST in DC. Upgrade some talent, get Jansen healthy again, get a cover guy and rush the passer... we'll be in good shape of '08.

SkinsJock wrote: The only problem I really am concerned about is, long term I am convinced we do not stand a better chance of success with weasel Cerrato and his group finding the correct talent.

Bingo!

SkinsJock wrote:Hopefully Snyder adds a GM soon and then we might all look at him with a slightly different idea than we have now.

And THAT is all everybody are asking for. BECAUSE a team, and any organization for that matter, is a reflection of the COMPETENCE of its leadership. A team is only as good as the people who makes the choices to recruit the best staff and players.

Contrary to what some of you imply in previous posts under this thread, I do not give Joe Gibbs a clean bill of health for everything that went wrong during his second tenure. He himself has acknowledged his mistakes better than I can point them out to you.

However, the tenure of Joe Gibbs had two major valuable contributions IMHO:

1) It kept Danny the Clown and his Machiavellian Sidekick -mostly- at bay in terms of flamboyant player acquisitions and giving away Draft picks. Not perfect but acceptable; and

2) It created a TEAM spirit with great character like no other during the entire ownership of this Clown and, to be fair, even after the first departure of Joe during the early 90's.

Winning, and winning consistently, is the last chronological link in a chain that starts at the top. My concern about the State of the Redskins is that not even Joe Gibbs was able to fix completely this team in four years. There was a lot of negative bagagge to be fixed in that period and he himself is not without responsibility in relation to some issues. But he surely made a lot of progress in a hopelessly flawed franchise when he came here.

The short term key to achieve success lies in the ability by Zorn to build upon what Joe left behind. The more he changes things, the longer it will take to improve. It will be a test for the marketing patience of Danny the Clown.

But the long term key to achieve success, and mainly consistent success, lies in the hiring of a COMPETENT and effective General Manager. Who knows? We may even get to love Danny the Clown for what he would not have to do as a football expert then.

There are too many unknown variables to make a definite prediction let alone pass any judgment about the success or failure of Zorn as a HC. Hopefully the hiring process, his dependency from the Front Office and his lack of experience are not the critical factors which may decide his performance with us.

Good luck Zorn.

Enough Zorn to go around?

February 9, 2008 9:46 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Mike Sando

Jim Zorn impresses people. There's no other way to explain his sudden emergence as the Redskins' head coach. People in the league knew Zorn was a good teacher, particularly of quarterbacks. But only after spending time with Zorn does a person realize what Redskins owner Daniel Snyder now knows: Zorn has lots of interesting ideas, he is enthusiastic about them and he is a persuasive person. Zorn grows on people.

I covered the Seahawks as a beat reporter from 1998 through the 2006 season. Zorn was there as quarterbacks coach beginning in 2001. You always needed some extra time if you were going to interview Zorn after practice because he would give such thorough, in-depth answers. He would also give you something a little off the wall sometimes, but if you saw him play the game as a left-handed scrambler, you weren't surprised.

The big question for the Redskins is whether there's enough of Jim Zorn to go around. Head coaches have to worry about so many things that go beyond what Zorn has proven to be good at: teaching and coaching. Head coaches are CEOs as much as anything.

As the Redskins' offensive coordinator, Zorn probably still could have taken a hands-on approach with Jason Campbell. As head coach, he is most likely going to need some help.

As one of Zorn's former co-workers put it to me this afternoon: "The best thing that happened to Jason was having Zorn named offensive coordinator and working with quarterbacks. The worst thing was Zorn being named head coach, because it will be harder for him to be as involved coaching the position."

Knowing Zorn, he's still going to be very involved with the quarterbacks. That is his identity. He played quarterback in the league and there isn't a more important position, so he'll still work with Campbell as much as anyone, I would think. Zorn won't have to worry about coaching the defense because Greg Blache is in place as the coordinator, so that helps.

Zorn will install an offense very similar to the one Mike Holmgren has run in Seattle. He would have an easier time doing this if he could to find another assistant or two who know this offense inside and out. Gary Reynolds, who recently followed Mike Sherman to Texas A&M, impressed everyone he came into contact with during his time on Holmgren's staff. He would be the type of person Zorn might find helpful in setting up his offense.

Holmgren's base offense features two backs, two receivers and a tight end. This is known as "regular" personnel in West Coast parlance. Seattle also leaned hard on its "E" personnel grouping with two running backs, three receivers and no tight end. They liked this group because the fullback allowed for running the ball, while the third receiver created mismatches against linebackers in the slot. "Zebra" (one back, three receivers, one tight end) and "Eagle" (four receivers) were also widely used groupings during Zorn's time in Seattle. The Redskins have different personnel and I would expect Zorn to tailor his personnel groupings accordingly.

Zorn's strength is coaching quarterbacks. He was a very good resource for Matt Hasselbeck during rough times in particular. Holmgren can be very harsh on quarterbacks. One of his all-time blowups came during halftime of a Seahawks loss at Washington. Zorn is competitive, but also a very pleasant person who doesn't even curse. His even keel balanced out the more combustible Holmgren. Zorn is a very enthusiastic, high-energy, hands-on guy. He is a hard worker and creative. He would take reps throwing 35-yard sideline passes during pregame warm-ups, something he'll presumably give up now he's the head guy.

The book on Zorn in Seattle was that he showed a great deal of improvement as a coach, becoming more organized. He is a Seattle guy at heart, but he also realized Seahawks coach-in-waiting Jim Mora would have his own candidates for offensive coordinator, so there was no way Zorn could pass up a three-year deal as coordinator in the other Washington. His decision was wiser and more lucrative than anyone could have imagined.

In addition to helping Hasselbeck go from struggling former sixth-round choice to Pro Bowl regular, Zorn was the assistant coach in charge of handling third-and-7 or longer. The Seahawks had some success in this area during his tenure, but their third-down offense struggled in general once Shaun Alexander hit a wall with injuries and the offensive line struggled.

There's a difference in being an idea guy with some input and being The Guy who runs everything. We won't know how well Zorn makes the transition until he's had a little time. If it doesn't work out, he can always go back to being a coordinator. The Redskins never lost a game when he held that title.




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Not even sure were to begin with this hiring??
I was in NYC all weekend and they are laughing at us.
I can understand why…imagine the Igges, G-men or Girls hiring Muskgrave or (place your favorite QB coach here) as OC and then three week latter naming him HC?? As Skins fans we’d be all over it!!

How can we as Skins fan be happy with the current ownership of the team? Yes I know he spends money and I know (the latest company line) business is business. But take a look around no one wanted this job?? Don’t tell me Zorn was on the short list he wasn’t even on the long list. We now know Zorn was who Fassel wanted.
Ask yourself this if Zorn was that coveted as even a OC why didn’t anyone in the same division (how have all gone through major coaching changes) want him???

Let’s review Gregg Williams, Snyder PROMISE him the job…yes I do know that. Because of some charity work I do, I know a former NFL HC who severed as a OC when Williams was the DC. I was in KC recently and spoke with him…and he was pretty candid. Not going to go into all of it here but all the interviews you heard about had more to do with Snyder not wanting to hire GW than wanting to. Snyder really missed an opportunity to show he has matured as an owner, he had nothing to lose by giving GW a three year deal….if he’s wins Snyder looks good if he loses that Williams would have looked bad...Snyder would have been applauded for giving him the opportunity.

Cowher and Carroll…obvious they didn’t want to coach…not sure why. My question is if they want to coach in the NFL next year…will Snyder go after them??

Meeks, I was rooting for him I love Dungy and I think he would have made a great HC for us.

Spags..I believe Snyder really wanted him. To bad Spags didn’t want the job…save your Snyder didn’t offer him the job speech…business is business remember. It would not surprise me if Spags didn’t even want to interview but was told by management to do so for the experience. So here Snyder back at square on better known as Fassel. Remember the backlash when Fassel’s name was leaked (by Snyder and Vinny who else knew??) to the press can’t hire him??


Enter Zorn…

Welcome to inside the beltway Jim where there is no grace period and the owner is less patient then the fans. Glad to see you have a sense of humor you will need it!

Our offensive scheme is zornography? ANyone said that yet? LOL

Hardcore Zr0n on t3h intern3ts.




Do I make you Zorny, baby???

Zornflakes for breakfast anybody?

Snout wrote:

roybus14 wrote: Gibbs came back, was given the keys to the jet and finished below .500. Yes, some good draft picks, a few free agents and a offensive guru were picked up but it obviously was either not enough, not the time, or the wrong decisions. Or maybe it was Gibbs the quasi-GM getting lost in translation with Gibbs the HC.

I think you are dead on with you analysis, and I really respect the fact that you put some of the blame on Gibbs rather than the easiest target. I think that we do need to upgrade the front office, but I refuse to join the lemmings who ignore history, give Gibbs as President a free pass, and try to put all the blame on Snyder.

Put all the blame on Snyder? Of course he gets all the blame - he's the guy in charge, remember? After 8 years of failure, you want to blame OTHER people? The people he hired? Or maybe on bad luck? Those are things that apologists do.

Danny's record speaks for itself. As the owner, he has total responsibility for everything, including failure. Bad teams don't get that way by bad luck or bad employees. They are bad because their management sucks. And bad management starts at the top. And I think we should all know the reason why by now...we don't have professional player acquisition and management. Over the last 8 years, not only have we had many horrible FA signings (which we gave up valuable draft picks for), we have many of our players starring on other teams (Antonio Pierce ring a bell?) PLUS we have the worst late-round drafting record of ANY team in the NFL. With early round selections, our success rate could have been replicated by anyone with a subscription to Pro Footbal Weekly. Puhleeze spare me the 'bad luck' talk.

All of this speaks directly to front office incompetence. We have no reason to expect that that will improve post-Gibbs, especially in light of a ludicrously operated search for a coach that is justifiably laughed at leaguewide. Only the most mindless cheerleader can fail to see what a disaster this hiring was. Could Zorn turn out to be good? Sure. And monkeys throwing darts at a dartboard are great stockpickers, when they happen to hit winners. That doesn't mean I'm gonna start believing in monkeys.

When Gibbs left the first time, the personnel cupboard was bare, which was the first clue that Gibbs was never a personnel guy. His second stint pretty much proves it. A smart owner would have known that. Could Snyder realize his dream of building a Super Bowl team through his own incredible hidden talent for picking and managing NFL personnel, a profession for which he has, let me see, ZERO qualifications? Sure. About the same as a monkey picking the next Google. But I wouldn't bet the house on it.