The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Skinsfan55 wrote:Also saying that Gibbs is a victim of the fans "unreasonable expectations for a quick fix." is one of the most nonsensical things ever said on this board. Gibbs has had 3 offseasons and 3.5 years on the field to try and build a team and what we've come up with is a team that's old and shows no real promise for the future.

So you consider 3 or 4 years to be a long time? The NFL is big money, ultra competitive. Why do you suppose bad teams stay bad so long? If this is true, why can't everyone do it? JKC outspent everyone. Snyder's willing to but has a cap. And our #1 issue was we didn't even have a QB when Gibbs took the team. He had to find one in the draft and bring him along. Teams don't let quality QBs go.

The reality is it's looking for constant ST fixes that kept us bad for so long. Wanting to go back to that is nonsense.

Skinsfan55 wrote:The team didn't live up to expectations, but when Job Gibbs took over we were actually IN BETTER SHAPE than we are now.

In better shape how? The Redskins had established a dynasty of losing--they were a completely dysfunctional team that was often not even competitive. Am I the only one that remembers being on the wrong side of all those blowouts? Go back and look at the scores, not just the wins and losses. Look at the "talent" we had on the team and see what happened to them when they left. It's easy to think "we should have been good, we had the talent," when the truth is only since Gibbs have we started getting a few talented players to build around.

We are now a very competitive team, a good (not great) team that has struggled through injuries, a very difficult schedule, and is now coping with a tragedy. Gibbs is not trying to put together one season but to reverse a decade-long culture of losing. It's easy to lose perspective, but really, you have to remember how awful those years were. We've had a bunch of heartbreaking, fourth-quarter losses, but I will take those any day over the embarrassing first-quarter losses of the Turner era.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:So you consider 3 or 4 years to be a long time? The NFL is big money, ultra competitive. Why do you suppose bad teams stay bad so long? If this is true, why can't everyone do it?

Everyone CAN do it!

If a team is well run, makes good trades and tries to build for a better future they can be consistent playoff teams.

The problem is, most NFL franchises are run poorly. They scout poorly, they sign bad deals, etc. I would attribute that to the fact that teams personnel departments are headed either by a head coach or an owner out of pride.

wbbradb wrote:In better shape how? The Redskins had established a dynasty of losing--they were a completely dysfunctional team that was often not even competitive. Am I the only one that remembers being on the wrong side of all those blowouts? Go back and look at the scores, not just the wins and losses. Look at the "talent" we had on the team and see what happened to them when they left. It's easy to think "we should have been good, we had the talent," when the truth is only since Gibbs have we started getting a few talented players to build around.

We are now a very competitive team, a good (not great) team that has struggled through injuries, a very difficult schedule, and is now coping with a tragedy. Gibbs is not trying to put together one season but to reverse a decade-long culture of losing. It's easy to lose perspective, but really, you have to remember how awful those years were. We've had a bunch of heartbreaking, fourth-quarter losses, but I will take those any day over the embarrassing first-quarter losses of the Turner era.

We're competitive now? Give me a break.

What I meant by in better shape then as opposed to now is that we had young playmakers like Arrington, Coles, Bailey, Pierce etc. these were the lind of dynamic players you could build around. We also had Dockery who is a very good guard. Other young solid players were Rod Gardner, Bryan Johnson, Fred Smoot... now you can practically count on one hand the number of players under 25...

We don't have a solid core of young players. We did once, and now it's gone in favor of older, more expensive players.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Everyone CAN do it!

If a team is well run, makes good trades and tries to build for a better future they can be consistent playoff teams.

The problem is, most NFL franchises are run poorly. They scout poorly, they sign bad deals, etc. I would attribute that to the fact that teams personnel departments are headed either by a head coach or an owner out of pride.

Look man, seriously, we are talking about the MOST PROFITABLE and COMPETITIVE sport in all of US sports. If you had a simple winning formula to cure all the illnesses of any franchise, I feel you should make a few million dollars per year running teams as a GM.

How do you think people at the top of several front Offices make HUGE money in the NFL? Do you seriously believe that they do not choose the absolutely BEST people they feel they need to win? It amazes me to read that some of you can argue from an armchair.

I am willing to bet that ANY Arena franchise, let alone an NFL franchise, has more dedicated and methodical approach to study the game than any group of fans, no matter how dedicated and passionate we are.

There were times when the Raiders were unbeatable. Look at them now. I am not sure you have heard about chaos theory but the short of it is that even small events can have a huge impact on some large events. There are just MILLIONS of things that can go well or wrong which make it IMPOSSIBLE to predict the outcome of a game let alone the outcome of a season.

A few injuries, a few well executed plays, a few ref calls, make a HUGE diference in the outcome and fortune of each and every team.

Sure is comfy to be a fan and make the calls from an armchair, quite another to be in the ultra competitive world of the NFL.

Here's another thread that's deserving of a bump in light of recent events.

Go away hater.....thread starter

JSPB22 wrote:Here's another thread that's deserving of a bump in light of recent events.

thanks for bringing this "back to the light" JSPB - it's kind of fun to remind the 'experts' about how misinformed they are and how much they tried to ridicule and belittle anyone who tried to show any support for our team.

I'm certainly enjoying the re-visits and will continue to remind these 'experts' whenever I get an opportunity.


crow will be served for some time here this off-season

Redskin in Canada wrote:Man, you cannot cure FRUSTRATION and ANGER among many fans and posters at this time. REASON will not assist you. ONLY some victories will send them back to watch the games happily with their hot dogs and beers.

I personally think that this poster is a genius.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:Man, you cannot cure FRUSTRATION and ANGER among many fans and posters at this time. REASON will not assist you. ONLY some victories will send them back to watch the games happily with their hot dogs and beers.

I personally think that this poster is a genius.

He's had his moments...

Yeah we suck........playoffs 2 out of the past three seasons.......blow it up, yeah hah ha ha ha.......hah..hahahaha......ha.haha..........................ha. What an idiot!

Californiaskin wrote:Yeah we suck........playoffs 2 out of the past three seasons.......blow it up, yeah hah ha ha ha.......hah..hahahaha......ha.haha..........................ha. What an idiot!

I'm not sure the author of Todd Collins Sucks! and The worst player on our curret roster is......... is in any position to be calling others out.

Ok..............Steve Spurrier..........haha

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

Californiaskin wrote:Yeah we suck........playoffs 2 out of the past three seasons.......blow it up, yeah hah ha ha ha.......hah..hahahaha......ha.haha..........................ha. What an idiot!

I'm not sure the author of Todd Collins Sucks! and The worst player on our curret roster is......... is in any position to be calling others out.

He's got you there, CS!

Bob 0119 wrote:I have finally lost the faith...

I've been on record a HUGE Gibbs supporter, and don't get me wrong, I still love the man, but I just don't think we can win with him anymore.

This loss is the one that got me.

Yes, the team had a tough week with the passing of Sean Taylor. Yes, they probably SHOULD have lost this game just due to the distraction of that alone...

However, this loss was the exact same as every other loss other than our loss to the Patriots.

We built up a halftime lead, we came out with a plan not to turn the ball over, and we watched the lead evaporate.

Y'know, if we'd have been blown out, I would have said "Ah well, the team had a lot on it's mind, and they didn't get a chance to properly prepare, etc."

But this, ladies and gentlemen was "Redskins Football". If you edit out all of the Sean Taylor stuff and watch just the game, this is the same game we've seen played all year, in every one of our losses.

I don't know what the answer is. All I know, in my less than scientific opinion, is that what we have isn't working...

I have never been happier to eat crow in all my life...

Obviously, this was a pretty low moment for me, and I'm glad to be able to say I was wrong.

And as much as I hate Canadiens (sixth only to The Cowgirls, Cowgirls fans, The Patriots, Patriot fans, and that hockey team in Montreal) I've got to give RiC credit for keeping the faith.

hailskins666 wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Hey 666, we suck after yesterday or did we suck when we barely beat Miami or the Jets? lol

both, all three, all year for that matter, aside from one fluke game where we got detroit good.

To me, nothings changed from when we started the season, no wait, lemme add to that. JC has improved since starting the season, and the offense looks better since starting the season even with our starters banged up.

i see campell improving on turning the ball over. whats that 150 fumbles lost and 13 interceptions on the year?

Other than that bruh, we've been the same Skins all year long. We are consistently the team that doesn't play to win. Sure, question our skills, question our coaching calls, question our clock management but don't question our hearts brutha. (not saying you did) We played with alot of heart yesterday and the Bills played better. Simple.
I'm not gonna get on you 666 for making this thread because sooner or later it had to be discussed.

i did question the redskins heart. and spine. i see none. they look like a team that expects to be kicked around on sundays. the mentality of this team is bad, to say the least.

We do need a GM folks, that's painfully obvious to see. Maybe a GM would've said hey, you guys have Betts, Cartwright, and Sellars, go ahead and keep Champ. NOT SAYING Champ is this or that, this is just an example. Do we suck though, maybe, but I don't care right now, I'll care next year when preseason starts.

we'll suck next year too. my point was we have to say 'enough' at some point, and build from the ground up. we have to get the front office straight first and foremost. a GM will hire 'his' coach and staff. then will start stocking the roster with 'system' players. you've got to build for the future in this league. its just the way things are with the cap.

and hopefully while they are at it, will find a new training staff. i think everyone on the roster has had a pulled groin or hammy this year.

Playoffs? Playoffs? Yep, we suck for sure. Thank goodness some of us don't give up on OUR guys when things are down. Plus, don't forget about the "we need a new head coach cause Gibbs has lost it", or "I have finally lost the faith" or my personal favorite "I gave up on the season when ST got hurt". If those quotes sound like you, welcome to the bamma club where you can join the ranks of fairweather fans everywhere. Be proud bammaz, be very proud because us TRUE fans will never give up on OUR team and we'll never be the bammaz that you are.

For the record, I didn't mention any doubts about the team due to ST's death. There's no reason to bring that up because I believe we all said to hell with the season after he was murdered. However, a little faith from Burg/Gold fans goes a looooong way.

Win or lose Saturday, I'm EXTREMELY proud of OUR organization.

Bob 0119 wrote:And as much as I hate Canadiens (sixth only to The Cowgirls, Cowgirls fans, The Patriots, Patriot fans, and that hockey team in Montreal) I've got to give RiC credit for keeping the faith.

Thanks, the Montreal Canadiens and I thank you.

langleyparkjoe wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Hey 666, we suck after yesterday or did we suck when we barely beat Miami or the Jets? lol

both, all three, all year for that matter, aside from one fluke game where we got detroit good.

To me, nothings changed from when we started the season, no wait, lemme add to that. JC has improved since starting the season, and the offense looks better since starting the season even with our starters banged up.

i see campell improving on turning the ball over. whats that 150 fumbles lost and 13 interceptions on the year?

Other than that bruh, we've been the same Skins all year long. We are consistently the team that doesn't play to win. Sure, question our skills, question our coaching calls, question our clock management but don't question our hearts brutha. (not saying you did) We played with alot of heart yesterday and the Bills played better. Simple.
I'm not gonna get on you 666 for making this thread because sooner or later it had to be discussed.

i did question the redskins heart. and spine. i see none. they look like a team that expects to be kicked around on sundays. the mentality of this team is bad, to say the least.

We do need a GM folks, that's painfully obvious to see. Maybe a GM would've said hey, you guys have Betts, Cartwright, and Sellars, go ahead and keep Champ. NOT SAYING Champ is this or that, this is just an example. Do we suck though, maybe, but I don't care right now, I'll care next year when preseason starts.

we'll suck next year too. my point was we have to say 'enough' at some point, and build from the ground up. we have to get the front office straight first and foremost. a GM will hire 'his' coach and staff. then will start stocking the roster with 'system' players. you've got to build for the future in this league. its just the way things are with the cap.

and hopefully while they are at it, will find a new training staff. i think everyone on the roster has had a pulled groin or hammy this year.

Playoffs? Playoffs? Yep, we suck for sure. Thank goodness some of us don't give up on OUR guys when things are down. Plus, don't forget about the "we need a new head coach cause Gibbs has lost it", or "I have finally lost the faith" or my personal favorite "I gave up on the season when ST got hurt". If those quotes sound like you, welcome to the bamma club where you can join the ranks of fairweather fans everywhere. Be proud bammaz, be very proud because us TRUE fans will never give up on OUR team and we'll never be the bammaz that you are.

For the record, I didn't mention any doubts about the team due to ST's death. There's no reason to bring that up because I believe we all said to hell with the season after he was murdered. However, a little faith from Burg/Gold fans goes a looooong way.

Win or lose Saturday, I'm EXTREMELY proud of OUR organization.

L P J - this is not the thread for positive statements or thoughts - HailSkins created one for that - go here http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25642

I understood that HailSkins and his "supporters" of doom and gloom want to have their very own thread to espouse how terrible we are - we at least owe them that

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

Californiaskin wrote:Yeah we suck........playoffs 2 out of the past three seasons.......blow it up, yeah hah ha ha ha.......hah..hahahaha......ha.haha..........................ha. What an idiot!

I'm not sure the author of Todd Collins Sucks! and The worst player on our curret roster is......... is in any position to be calling others out.

A choice one from that one:

MEZZSKIN wrote:So Californaskin wants a worst qb situations than ours ..Heres one that comes to mind.....Drew Bledsoe backed up by the imcomparable TONY ROMO.

You mean...4 time probowler Drew Bledsoe backed up by 2 time probowler Tony Romo?

langleyparkjoe wrote:bammaz

What the heck is a bammaz?

Yeah I was stupid about Collins for sure.........its california out here............ sometimes our minds get clouded up a bit............but C'mon if your fricken posting as Steve Spurrier IMO how can you call ANYONE out on being an idiot in previous posts?

Californiaskin wrote:Yeah I was stupid about Collins for sure.........its california out here............ sometimes our minds get clouded up a bit............but C'mon if your fricken posting as Steve Spurrier IMO how can you call ANYONE out on being an idiot in previous posts?

nice take there - takes a man to admit he was wrong

and touche very interesting observation