The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs' secrecy reeks of something. It reminds me of the time when he wouldn't give a straight answer about Barry Wilburn's drug problems back in '89 or '90 (for those of you who were too young, Wilburn was a solid No.2 corner who was deactivated all of a sudden without explanation- until the media revealed that he had failed numerous drug tests). I'm not implying that this could be a drug issue- it's just that I'm starting to believe that Lavar did something very serious to warrant this benching.

Scottskins wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:

``He's not a starter and hasn't started,'' Gibbs said. ``I know he's disappointed in not making more of an impact, not playing more, but I think it's something we have to work our way through. I think it's one of those things scheme-wise for our defense, it's the best way I would answer that. We've got a lot of guys that are talented guys who can do a lot of things for us. ... Health-wise, I think he's back.''

this is absolute and total crap. if you don't want to play him, fine, but the fans deserve a better answer than this, gibbs.

how so? he's not the starter. how else could he explain it any better without targeting a player? Gibbs never singles out players like you seem to want him to do. Lavar is not currently good enough to start. Seems like a pretty good explanation to me...

do you remember back in grade school when your teacher taught you not to use the word you're defining IN the definition? (for example, do not say "courageously means something done with a lot of courage" or something like that).

well this is essentially what gibbs did: he gave us absolutely NO actul information whatsoever, he merely reworded the information we already had. we KNOW lavar is not a starter, that is WHY the question is being asked in the first place!

we deserve an actual answer. but who deserves a reason much more than we do is lavar himself, and from what he says the coaches have not given him any explanation as to why he on the bench. if that is true, that is extremely poor "employee management"- and what's more, it hurts the team. if lavar is doing something wrong, they should be working extra hard with him to show him what they need him to do. i'm sorry, that's not "playing favorites", that's doing your job to help make sure you field the best players you can. there can be no argument that lavar isn't one of the most physically gifted players on the team-- even in the league! coach his ass off and get him in there. if he is actually refusing to learn the system, then he does not deserve to have the coach lie/conceal the truth for him to protect him scorn in the media.

die cowboys die wrote:

Scottskins wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:

``He's not a starter and hasn't started,'' Gibbs said. ``I know he's disappointed in not making more of an impact, not playing more, but I think it's something we have to work our way through. I think it's one of those things scheme-wise for our defense, it's the best way I would answer that. We've got a lot of guys that are talented guys who can do a lot of things for us. ... Health-wise, I think he's back.''

this is absolute and total crap. if you don't want to play him, fine, but the fans deserve a better answer than this, gibbs.

how so? he's not the starter. how else could he explain it any better without targeting a player? Gibbs never singles out players like you seem to want him to do. Lavar is not currently good enough to start. Seems like a pretty good explanation to me...

do you remember back in grade school when your teacher taught you not to use the word you're defining IN the definition? (for example, do not say "courageously means something done with a lot of courage" or something like that).

well this is essentially what gibbs did: he gave us absolutely NO actul information whatsoever, he merely reworded the information we already had. we KNOW lavar is not a starter, that is WHY the question is being asked in the first place!

we deserve an actual answer. but who deserves a reason much more than we do is lavar himself, and from what he says the coaches have not given him any explanation as to why he on the bench. if that is true, that is extremely poor "employee management"- and what's more, it hurts the team. if lavar is doing something wrong, they should be working extra hard with him to show him what they need him to do. i'm sorry, that's not "playing favorites", that's doing your job to help make sure you field the best players you can. there can be no argument that lavar isn't one of the most physically gifted players on the team-- even in the league! coach his ass off and get him in there. if he is actually refusing to learn the system, then he does not deserve to have the coach lie/conceal the truth for him to protect him scorn in the media.

haha, there you have it dcd. This is the same way Gibbs won us three previous superbowls, and it's the same way he's gonna win us a couple more. You might not like it, but you'll either get used to it or you won't. Either way, that's the way it is

"Yeah, I'm surprised," Arrington said. "Do I hate being off the field? Of course -- I hate not playing. But I don't make those decisions. We're 3-0, so obviously we're doing something right. I don't want my situation to become a distraction, a problem. I love my teammates too much for that.

"By no means am I going to sit here and whine and complain and throw tirades. I have a challenge in front of me, and I'll continue to try to be a professional. I understand that it needs to be reported for what I stand for within this organization and this community. But I don't need this to be an ongoing soap opera: 'Why isn't LaVar playing? What's wrong with LaVar?' "

LaVar's handling this like a pro so far.

dcd wrote:if he is actually refusing to learn the system, then he does not deserve to have the coach lie/conceal the truth for him to protect him scorn in the media.

maybe lavar is being a turd. maybe gibbs doesn't want to hurt any trade value lavar has with attitude problems. ever thought of it that way? just asking. there are two sides to every story.

Remember last year when Lavar came on sportstalk 980 and said that he physically challenged the trainers and coaching staff to keep him off the practice field with the bad knee ? Then he goes out and makes his injury worst than it was at first. Then in the offseason he complained about not getting any LOVE and began to say that he was rushed back. At the same time he was still complaining about the contract situation. The TEAM does not revolve around Lavar. He has been talking like a spoiled brat (me, me, me, me) while at the same time trying to say that he is a team player. Well now they are not going to RUSH him back. Lavar's biggest problem has been one inch below his nose. If he would just keep his mouth shut all of this stuff will work itself out. You can't dog out the trainers and coaches and then think that everything will be forgotten. He swung first, now they are swinging back. They are teaching him a lesson about LIFE. Just shut up and play.

i said the same thing here.

http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

life sucks, get a freakin helmet. lavar has all the talent and physical tools to do great things. his mental game has always been his problem, on and off the field, as shown in his freelancing, and harsh comments to the media.

i really hope it gets worked out, because there is no doubt that he can be a complete monster. but he has to do something in the limited time he's on the field to prove he's more of a playmaker than holdman and to this point he hasn't. bottom line.

I guarantee you that this has something to do with the resolution to his grievance. Something was done or said behind closed doors, where all parties were in agreement. Like tcwest said, LaVar airs his dirty laundry out in public. But, aside from saying "I just wanna play" or something like that, he hasn't really said too much. Certainly, he hasn't said anything detrimental to the team, or the coaches, and that leads me to believe that some kind of agreement was reached and that's why he hasn't been playing. It could be that Williams wants to make him earn his spot, as he's shown with Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, et. all that nobody comes "RIGHT BACK".

As I said before, and I firmly believe this, there is MORE to this story than meets the eye, and a lot of behind the scenes work going on with this.

Hailskins, I think you said it the best. He has to show us why he should be in there. He has limited time, but he also has the practice field and the clubhouse. He has to show the coaches on the field, as well as in the locker room and practice field, that he deserves to be in there to benefit the team.

When they asked Greg Williams about Sean Taylor one time, he said "There is no ONE person bigger than the Redskins". And, that's the case here. LaVar is not bigger than the team, and he needs to realize that. Yes, he's a beast, but he has to make some adjustments to his tude before he gets the playing time he wants, and will get sooner or later. Sean Taylor is a classic example of what happens. Obviously, he had issues and it affected his playing time, but as he's slowly come back, his maturity has improved. So, it's a process where LaVar has to improve as a person, and only then can he improve as a player. I have no doubt that he will.

In three games Holdman has recorded 5(TCKL) 3(SOLO)in 3 starts.

Arrington in limited time has recorded 2(TCKL) 2(SOLO).

Just by looking at the numbers I think Arrington deserves a chance. How many times do you hear Holdman's name called on Sunday's for either a tackle or in on a tackle. Have you even seen Holdman blitz the quarterback? NO! If he is on the field to play sound defense then great, but were is the force in the front seven? Every team has a playmaker in the front seven. We have one; however he is warming the bench!!!! Holdman is smaller and slower than Arrington! Teams are going to start running at Holdman; just like Seahawks did in the second half!

There is not a Redskin Fan that isn't happy with the 3-0 start... so far. It's not good that when you ask a question that you get alot of words but no answer. It's hard for me to believe that a linebacker who has drifted from team to team to team (Warrick Holdman) is better than a three time pro bowl "Redskin Linebacker". It's hard for me to believe that you can find "packages" for Chris Clemons to rush the passer but you only have limited packages for LaVar. He hasn't done anything to embarass the organization, said anything bad about the organization. Hasn't gotten into a shouting match with any teammates or coaches. Based on this interview, still hasn't miss represented the Washington Redskins. A player who is proud to be a Redskin. Yes, we have a top five defense and we were number three last year. But were not number one. Will LaVar make us #1? I don't know. With him sitting on the bench, we won't find out.

Hasn't gotten into a shouting match with any teammates or coaches.

And, you know this how? The clubhouse and practice field are like Las Vegas. What happens there, stays there!!

I'm not saying that LaVar Arrington has been a problem in the clubhouse, but we can't say anything as definitive as "He hasn't gotten into a shouting match with any teammates or coaches" just because we haven't heard of any such situation. We have no idea what goes on in the locker room, and that's the way it should be.

Even if the coaches don't want Lavar in the starting lineup, I still think that we need to get Holdman off the field. 3 solo tackles and 2 assists after 3 games is pretty bad for a starting linebacker and his lack of speed and size was heavily exploited by the Seahawks in the second half.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

Scottskins wrote:
Riggins complained, and Gibbs made the switch. He had 553 yards in eight games in 1982, and then 1200+ yards the next two seasons.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... ggJo00.htm

EDIT: One thing that suprised me about Riggins' stats is that he never averaged over 4 yards a carry under Gibbs. Go figure.

# of rushing attempts has a higher correlation to winning games than the amount of rushing yards. And I know we all remember Gibbs pounding the ball time after time, wearing the opposing team down to set up a bomb for either a TD reception or a Riggo 1 yd run into the endzone.

People, have we not learned our lesson from the Brunell-over-Ramsey decision yet? So Lavar isn't playing, who cares? We're 3-0!!!! Turnovers??? You want turnovers? Last I checked, every time our defense forces a 3-and-out, they basically hand the ball over to our offense, which, as we've seen, is beginning to jell.

This year, the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt. True, the Redskins organization is trying to get the fans involved as much as possible, but, since when are we entitled to get personnel reports, and such???

We DESERVE an answer???? icon_rolleyes.gif Get real.

Let Joe and his staff coach, it'll save you from eating even more crow as the season progresses. twocents.gif

I don't really think of this as a Brunell-Ramsey type situation, at least not for me. I have always thought that Lavar freelances too much and has not lived up to his hype. For me this has more to do with Holdman not being very good. Frankly I don't care if Lavar isn't the guy getting the starts, as long as somebody better than Holdman is.

SkinzCanes wrote:Even if the coaches don't want Lavar in the starting lineup, I still think that we need to get Holdman off the field. 3 solo tackles and 2 assists after 3 games is pretty bad for a starting linebacker and his lack of speed and size was heavily exploited by the Seahawks in the second half.

This is seriously being picky. We're 3-0 and a large part of that is due to team defense. Stats don't mean squat if they're getting the job done and we're winning. Lavar is being taught a lesson.

Lavar wanted to rush out on the field last year, and he got hurt. Then, he stated in the offseason that it was the team that rushed him back. Mistake #1... Mistake #2 is airing dirty laundry in the public. Mistake #3 is his contract dispute - he's at fault.

It's as simple as that. Once the coaches feel that he's ready to be a man and is mentally ready, we'll see more of Lavar. If they don't feel that way, we'll see what happens in the offseason.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:People, have we not learned our lesson from the Brunell-over-Ramsey decision yet? So Lavar isn't playing, who cares? We're 3-0!!!! Turnovers??? You want turnovers? Last I checked, every time our defense forces a 3-and-out, they basically hand the ball over to our offense, which, as we've seen, is beginning to jell.

This year, the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt. True, the Redskins organization is trying to get the fans involved as much as possible, but, since when are we entitled to get personnel reports, and such???

We DESERVE an answer???? Get real.

Let Joe and his staff coach, it'll save you from eating even more crow as the season progresses.

You should always be looking to improve your team. And as fantastic as 3-0 is, we can all agree that there is still room for improvement on both sides of the ball, as well as special teams. A healthy, cooperative Arrington should give the Washington Redskins a better chance to go 4-0.

EDIT: Also, forcing and recovering a fumble as opposed to a punt can save a team some forty yards in field position. Turnovers are important.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:People, have we not learned our lesson from the Brunell-over-Ramsey decision yet? So Lavar isn't playing, who cares? We're 3-0!!!! Turnovers??? You want turnovers? Last I checked, every time our defense forces a 3-and-out, they basically hand the ball over to our offense, which, as we've seen, is beginning to jell.

This year, the coaching staff has earned the benefit of the doubt. True, the Redskins organization is trying to get the fans involved as much as possible, but, since when are we entitled to get personnel reports, and such???

We DESERVE an answer???? Get real.

Let Joe and his staff coach, it'll save you from eating even more crow as the season progresses.

You should always be looking to improve your team. And as fantastic as 3-0 is, we can all agree that there is still room for improvement on both sides of the ball, as well as special teams. A healthy, cooperative Arrington should give the Washington Redskins a better chance to go 4-0.

EDIT: Also, forcing and recovering a fumble as opposed to a punt can save a team some forty yards in field position. Turnovers are important.

A healthy, cooperative and one who plays within the scheme Lavar... I think that's the key. If he is all of these things and stays within Williams' D, then he will become the player his potential has always warrented. If not, he'll only be thrown in on packages until he cooperates.

I understand the idea of keeping him out if he has been talking, but Geez...we play in the same division as the Eagles. T.O. is playing and I am sure that his comments, and complaining about his contract was more serious than Lavar.

Cursing out the head coach
Calling out McNabb in the Superbowl
Doing Sit-Ups in the driveway
Holding out
Not talking to teamates

Yet he is still on the field. C'mon, egos aside, lets get him in there at least half the time.

You guys here all the talk about cutting him? Saving room on the cap and all?

The Hogster wrote:I understand the idea of keeping him out if he has been talking, but Geez...we play in the same division as the Eagles. T.O. is playing and I am sure that his comments, and complaining about his contract was more serious than Lavar.

Cursing out the head coach
Calling out McNabb in the Superbowl
Doing Sit-Ups in the driveway
Holding out
Not talking to teamates

Yet he is still on the field. C'mon, egos aside, lets get him in there at least half the time.

Hogster, while I understand where you're coming from, I remind you of the following:

The Eagles (3-1) NEED T.O; the Redskins (3-0, #1 in the NFC EAST) DON'T NEED Lavar, in order to be succesful, as was proven last year and in the first three games of the season.

I want to see what he can bring to this system, but if he ain't willing to "know his role and shut his mouth", he can remain on the bench.

It's not about ego. It is about winning.

The Redskins cannot win unless every man on the field plays the same defense. It appears that Arrington wants to play his own defense, while the other ten guys play the Greg Williams defense. Williams wants to play 11-against-11, not 10-against-11.

Owens and the Eagles are not relevant.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I understand the idea of keeping him out if he has been talking, but Geez...we play in the same division as the Eagles. T.O. is playing and I am sure that his comments, and complaining about his contract was more serious than Lavar.

Cursing out the head coach
Calling out McNabb in the Superbowl
Doing Sit-Ups in the driveway
Holding out
Not talking to teamates

Yet he is still on the field. C'mon, egos aside, lets get him in there at least half the time.

Hogster, while I understand where you're coming from, I remind you of the following:

The Eagles (3-1) NEED T.O; the Redskins (3-0, #1 in the NFC EAST) DON'T NEED Lavar, in order to be succesful, as was proven last year and in the first three games of the season.

I want to see what he can bring to this system, but if he ain't willing to "know his role and shut his mouth", he can remain on the bench.

I see your point, but quite honestly the Eagles went to the NFC Championship three years straight without the guy. Someone might argue at the same time that the Eagles don't need T.O

While I agree with your point that we don't need Lavar, it would help to get him on the field more, even if he isn't starting.

welch wrote:It's not about ego. It is about winning.

The Redskins cannot win unless every man on the field plays the same defense. It appears that Arrington wants to play his own defense, while the other ten guys play the Greg Williams defense. Williams wants to play 11-against-11, not 10-against-11.

Owens and the Eagles are not relevant.

How do we know this is about freelancing?? Everyone takes that one phrase and runs with it. This seems more about Lavar being in the doghouse for somereason.

I was at preseason games, and Lavar played well within the scheme. Everyone piggy backs on the Free Lancing term...it has yet to be seen how the guy plays in this system. When GW first got here Lavar was the starter and he made an impact in the first and second game of last year.

Now magically Holdman is better than him? Registering one tackle per game? Sounds mysteriously similar to an internal conflict, not about Lavar playing within the system.