Cooley or Winslow?

[John Manfreda]

Who the hell would vote for Winslow. Much less 14 people.

[thaiphoon]

I've been called worse than a crack-head before, so it's no skin off my back. However, I do encourage you to READ some of the posts before theowing out names, so's you don't come off sounding foolish. Many of us who voted for KW2 actually took the time to read the initial posts and defend our votes.

SOmeone please pass the pipe.

Fine ... I'll bite.

KW2 has done nothing, repeat ... nothing... in this league. People can talk all they want about how talented the kid is but the fact remains is that the kid has not shown himself to be a professional. From his pre-draft talk of wanting to "get paid" to his TO like holdout for his rookie contract (again , about wanting to "get paid") to his unprofessional conduct off the field -> KW2 has not shown anything that would allow a General Manager of an expansion team to say "Hey, thats the guy we need to have".

Meanwhile ey had a great rookie season and followed it up with a Pro Bowl season this year.

Many people will say:

"Well he was great at the college level"...

Two words ... Ron Dayne ...

Two more words ... Ki-jana Carter ...

Or they'll say:

"But you can't compare him when he's hurt"

True enough but players get hurt all the time and talented players that are always injured never get very far in this league. There are many great players who could not stay healthy (for one reason or another) who come into the league and slip quietly out a few years later, never making any significant contribution to this league but always staying injured. So you HAVE to compare the fact that one can't stay healthy enough to play and the other plays hurt and produces. And what makes KW2 worse is that the second season ending injury was his own doing due to questionable decision-making. Does an expansion GM really want to take the risk that his TE will be so dumb that he might take himself out during the offseason simply because of his own stupidity ?? Couple that with the fact that he is now going to be a third year player with extremely little NFL experience. He has not played a 16 game regular season (17 week) at the NFL level and will still face the typical rookie "wall" past 12 or 13 games.

Meanwhile ... ey plays hurt and delivers big time.

The choice could not be any more clear that KW2 doesn't belong in the same paragraph with ey let alone the same sentence when comparing who one would take as an expansion GM. Alas, to argue my case I had to include them in both.

[WshSkins22]

I've been called worse than a crack-head before, so it's no skin off my back. However, I do encourage you to READ some of the posts before theowing out names, so's you don't come off sounding foolish. Many of us who voted for KW2 actually took the time to read the initial posts and defend our votes.

SOmeone please pass the pipe.

Fine ... I'll bite.

KW2 has done nothing, repeat ... nothing... in this league. People can talk all they want about how talented the kid is but the fact remains is that the kid has not shown himself to be a professional. From his pre-draft talk of wanting to "get paid" to his TO like holdout for his rookie contract (again , about wanting to "get paid") to his unprofessional conduct off the field -> KW2 has not shown anything that would allow a General Manager of an expansion team to say "Hey, thats the guy we need to have".

Meanwhile ey had a great rookie season and followed it up with a Pro Bowl season this year.

Many people will say:

"Well he was great at the college level"...

Two words ... Ron Dayne ...

Two more words ... Ki-jana Carter ...

Or they'll say:

"But you can't compare him when he's hurt"

True enough but players get hurt all the time and talented players that are always injured never get very far in this league. There are many great players who could not stay healthy (for one reason or another) who come into the league and slip quietly out a few years later, never making any significant contribution to this league but always staying injured. So you HAVE to compare the fact that one can't stay healthy enough to play and the other plays hurt and produces. And what makes KW2 worse is that the second season ending injury was his own doing due to questionable decision-making. Does an expansion GM really want to take the risk that his TE will be so dumb that he might take himself out during the offseason simply because of his own stupidity ?? Couple that with the fact that he is now going to be a third year player with extremely little NFL experience. He has not played a 16 game regular season (17 week) at the NFL level and will still face the typical rookie "wall" past 12 or 13 games.

Meanwhile ... ey plays hurt and delivers big time.

The choice could not be any more clear that KW2 doesn't belong in the same paragraph with ey let alone the same sentence when comparing who one would take as an expansion GM. Alas, to argue my case I had to include them in both.

nice man

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

I've been called worse than a crack-head before, so it's no skin off my back. However, I do encourage you to READ some of the posts before theowing out names, so's you don't come off sounding foolish. Many of us who voted for KW2 actually took the time to read the initial posts and defend our votes.

SOmeone please pass the pipe.

Fine ... I'll bite.

KW2 has done nothing, repeat ... nothing... in this league. People can talk all they want about how talented the kid is but the fact remains is that the kid has not shown himself to be a professional. From his pre-draft talk of wanting to "get paid" to his TO like holdout for his rookie contract (again , about wanting to "get paid") to his unprofessional conduct off the field -> KW2 has not shown anything that would allow a General Manager of an expansion team to say "Hey, thats the guy we need to have".

Meanwhile ey had a great rookie season and followed it up with a Pro Bowl season this year.

Many people will say:

"Well he was great at the college level"...

Two words ... Ron Dayne ...

Two more words ... Ki-jana Carter ...

Or they'll say:

"But you can't compare him when he's hurt"

True enough but players get hurt all the time and talented players that are always injured never get very far in this league. There are many great players who could not stay healthy (for one reason or another) who come into the league and slip quietly out a few years later, never making any significant contribution to this league but always staying injured. So you HAVE to compare the fact that one can't stay healthy enough to play and the other plays hurt and produces. And what makes KW2 worse is that the second season ending injury was his own doing due to questionable decision-making. Does an expansion GM really want to take the risk that his TE will be so dumb that he might take himself out during the offseason simply because of his own stupidity ?? Couple that with the fact that he is now going to be a third year player with extremely little NFL experience. He has not played a 16 game regular season (17 week) at the NFL level and will still face the typical rookie "wall" past 12 or 13 games.

Meanwhile ... ey plays hurt and delivers big time.

The choice could not be any more clear that KW2 doesn't belong in the same paragraph with ey let alone the same sentence when comparing who one would take as an expansion GM. Alas, to argue my case I had to include them in both.

You make a great argument, and I TOTALLY agree with you. However, these are all facts that came AFTER the draft. No one can argue about which of the two was the better pick, at this point in their respective careers (or "career" in KW2's case). However, if you think back to draft day, there is NO WAY you can say with 100% certainty that you would NOT pick KW2. His pedigree, his production, and his potential (based on his college performance) could not be passed up.

That draft day, Joe took the best athlete in the draft, Seasn Taylor, in the first round, but, I have no doubt in my mind, that KW2 was high on their draft board.