Chemical Weapon found in Iraq

[DEHog]

DEHog, you completely misunderstand me if you think I want to end freedom for everyone. It's ridiculous to even imply such nonsense. It's obvious that we cannot pull out of Iraq now, we are far, far past the point of no return, but we need to start conducting this war better, and our soldiers need to start conducting themselves better. No more bullying the Iraqi citizens, no more torturing prisoners, no more bombing with shoddy intel... This operation needs to be fixed up, and pronto. Were I in a position to make the decisions, that's exactly what would happen, and I certainly fail to see how THAT would make freedom vanish.

55, Sorry I really didn't explain my comment. First I respect your opinions, I think you understand that because you really haven't attacked me personally. We just have different opinions. To fight for the right for you to express your opinions and then discount them when you do would be very hypocritical of me. I guess I just wish American would appreciate them more!
Let me explain my comment about our freedoms vanishing. I have seen terrorism up close and personal, I have had to clean (graphic comment here)our Sailors from the USS Cole. I have had to smell the stench from remain of the Kenya Embassy bombing after the President delayed their arrival because he wanted to have a ceremony at Andrews, oh by the way this was at the height of the Lewinsky scandal. There was no such ceremony for the USS Cole. My point is what did do we do in response? I think we lobbed 1 crusie missle?? Why didn't we do more?? Was it because it didn't happen on our soil? Now flash forward to September 11th and the outrage by Americans that this could happen on our soil. Now the hearings as to how this happened. Why hasn't the former administration been called in for questioning. We know why, because there're not up for re-election. Look at what happened to our freedom after 9/11 look at the searches we are now subject to? I think we agree here that we don't like our privacy invaded, but look at how quick American were ready to give it up! Why because they were scared, exactly what the terrorists wants. Now compare that to what Bushes reaction was to September 11th, what would the previous administration have done??
I was down in Dallas in March for a forensics conference where John Ashcroft spoke, he stated that we just don't know how many other attacks that have been stopped because we took action. You can't go public with these things. Now here's what I mean by our freedom vanishing if more people with your views get into policy making positions. What if we had done nothing after9/11,better yet what if we had done something after the Cole would 9/11 had happened?? What if we pull out now? I believe as do many of our leaders that we will fight the battle right here in are own backyards!! Think about the freedoms we would have to give up if that were to happen? It's not that I think you want to end freedom for everyone, it 's that I think people with views like yours are a threat to our freedom!

[hailskins666]

How exactly does being against an invasion make me a Nazi? How does the call for respecting human rights and religious freedom make me a Nazi??

it was a joke. i guess i shouldn't have tried to use any humor on this thread, cuz theres nothing funny about it. i apologize if you were offended.
but you still have some twisted views, 55.

[redskincity]

People with twisted views aren't fit for our military.

[Skinsfan55]

DEHog, you completely misunderstand me if you think I want to end freedom for everyone. It's ridiculous to even imply such nonsense. It's obvious that we cannot pull out of Iraq now, we are far, far past the point of no return, but we need to start conducting this war better, and our soldiers need to start conducting themselves better. No more bullying the Iraqi citizens, no more torturing prisoners, no more bombing with shoddy intel... This operation needs to be fixed up, and pronto. Were I in a position to make the decisions, that's exactly what would happen, and I certainly fail to see how THAT would make freedom vanish.

55, Sorry I really didn't explain my comment. First I respect your opinions, I think you understand that because you really haven't attacked me personally. We just have different opinions. To fight for the right for you to express your opinions and then discount them when you do would be very hypocritical of me. I guess I just wish American would appreciate them more!
Let me explain my comment about our freedoms vanishing. I have seen terrorism up close and personal, I have had to clean (graphic comment here)our Sailors from the USS Cole. I have had to smell the stench from remain of the Kenya Embassy bombing after the President delayed their arrival because he wanted to have a ceremony at Andrews, oh by the way this was at the height of the Lewinsky scandal. There was no such ceremony for the USS Cole. My point is what did do we do in response? I think we lobbed 1 crusie missle?? Why didn't we do more?? Was it because it didn't happen on our soil? Now flash forward to September 11th and the outrage by Americans that this could happen on our soil. Now the hearings as to how this happened. Why hasn't the former administration been called in for questioning. We know why, because there're not up for re-election. Look at what happened to our freedom after 9/11 look at the searches we are now subject to? I think we agree here that we don't like our privacy invaded, but look at how quick American were ready to give it up! Why because they were scared, exactly what the terrorists wants. Now compare that to what Bushes reaction was to September 11th, what would the previous administration have done??
I was down in Dallas in March for a forensics conference where John Ashcroft spoke, he stated that we just don't know how many other attacks that have been stopped because we took action. You can't go public with these things. Now here's what I mean by our freedom vanishing if more people with your views get into policy making positions. What if we had done nothing after9/11,better yet what if we had done something after the Cole would 9/11 had happened?? What if we pull out now? I believe as do many of our leaders that we will fight the battle right here in are own backyards!! Think about the freedoms we would have to give up if that were to happen? It's not that I think you want to end freedom for everyone, it 's that I think people with views like yours are a threat to our freedom!

By saying people like me would have done nothing after Sept 11th is a little offensive. I certainly support trying to weed out the terrorists, but this is a highly sensitive, dangerous and volitile area of the world, and and kind of military action there ought to be conducted with a higher degree of tact than this.

It's a war, SOME innocent people are going to die, but when you kill a prisoner, or bomb a wedding, then things aren't exactly going to plan. We needed to do a lot of things that weren't done to have the best possible outcome for this conflict that we failed to do. It's astonishing that no one else has acknowledged this!

The problem I see is that people are treating this like an ordinary war. It's not. Our objective here isn't to kill more of them than they do of us and then make the terrorists sign a treaty and pay us war damages. The object is to help stabalize the region while making it harder for terrorism being supported. We will never get all the terrorists, ever. Also, the middle east will probably still hate us after we leave their countries in better shape than when we went in. I think we need to get Bin Laden. Obviously other terrorists are out there, but none is more dangerous, none approach the level of planning that Osama bin Laden has. He's the main guy we need to get, and it seems like we're just making a pit stop in Iraq so George Bush can finish his fathers work. But like I said, Iraq could have been done right, but obviously something went wrong.

This action in the middle east isn't such a bad plan in theory, but we need to shape up if we plan to go into other countries and continue.

I'm just glad my friend Chris is a military policeman/field artillery soldier. He can keep his distance from the REAL action. (Besides the occasional ambush or IED). Hey, if he's over there until January or February what do you think he'll be doing after we turn over power? Just guard duty? Moving to a different country? Anyone care to speculate?

[Skinsfan55]

People with twisted views aren't fit for our military.

The military is all about people with different backgrounds and with different views coming together as one for a common purpose. As an American I find your statement offensive and narrow minded.

The military works because they are an entity that is made up of all types of different people who are on call when the President and/or Congress call upon them whatever the reason. Don't believe me? Well, immagine for the second the military was privatized. Immagine that they were made up of all people who only joined the military to kill people and get paid, an army of bounty hunters just sitting around waiting to get called on to kill someone, contracting themselves out to other private organizations in the meantime. The president calls and asks them to report to some other country and they say "no, too dangerous, besides, you're not paying us enough... we're making more money as protection for South American drug lords. Bye."

Our military works because of people from different backgrounds coming together for love of country among other reasons to help America. It has nothing to do with whether they believe in the fight or not, the military can work no other way.

[redskincity]

People with twisted views aren't fit for our military.

The military is all about people with different backgrounds and with different views coming together as one for a common purpose. As an American I find your statement offensive and narrow minded.

The military works because they are an entity that is made up of all types of different people who are on call when the President and/or Congress call upon them whatever the reason. Don't believe me? Well, immagine for the second the military was privatized. Immagine that they were made up of all people who only joined the military to kill people and get paid, an army of bounty hunters just sitting around waiting to get called on to kill someone, contracting themselves out to other private organizations in the meantime. The president calls and asks them to report to some other country and they say "no, too dangerous, besides, you're not paying us enough... we're making more money as protection for South American drug lords. Bye."

Our military works because of people from different backgrounds coming together for love of country among other reasons to help America. It has nothing to do with whether they believe in the fight or not, the military can work no other way.

Wrong!People come in the military for many reasons. They range from money to wanting to travel to College.

I served many years and we still dont know what makes the military work other than support from fellow americans.

INMO military works because people who serve do as they are told.


What experience do you have with the Military other than "John Wayne flicks?"

Have you been in the military?? Have you worn the freakin uniform? Have you been away from your family with bullets fling over you?

Do you know how to salute and why soldiers dont like to do it at times???



We will fight no matter what, so you can sit home and chill at the computer.

We have a job to do in Iraq and the US military and goverment aren't going to just pack up and leave because of all the class-conscious objectors out there


Also its know big secrect that some parts of the Military are privatized Just ask your local recruiter

Sf55 wheter you like it or not, US interests in Iraq are your interests.

[Skinsfan55]

Wrong!People come in the military for many reasons.

Say I'm wrong in big letters then go on to repeat exactly what I have said in big letters is a cunning strategy, good work

I served many years and we still dont know what makes the military work other than support from fellow americans.

INMO military works because people who serve do as they are told.

EXACTLY what I have stated, reguardless of beliefs the people in the military follow orders from higher ups and that's the only way it can work.

What experience do you have with the Military other than "John Wayne flicks?"

My best friend is in the Army, I've been to the barracks with him a few times and met all the guys down there. Strangely enough, I've never seen one of the John Wayne movies with him in the soldier roles all the way through

Have you been in the military?? Have you worn the freakin uniform? Have you been away from your family with bullets fling over you?

Nope, but I came darned close. I almost joined the 109th, but for various reasons (moving, etc.) I didn't.

Do you know how to salute and why soldiers dont like to do it at times???

Goes back to medieval times when knights would raise their visors to show passing knights that they were not an enemy, and yes, I know how to salute, my friend taught me the mechanics.

We will fight no matter what, so you can sit home and chill at the computer.

We have a job to do in Iraq and the US military and goverment aren't going to just pack up and leave because of all the class-conscious objectors out there

The rest of this is so idiotic... We have a job to do in Iraq... that we are screwing up. I have said that we can't leave Iraq, it is too late... and you are lumping me in with every liberal sentiment out there... I do not want to leave, it is far too late for that, so none of this applies to me at all, I guess maybe you just thought it sounded cool?

Sf55 wheter you like it or not, US interests are your interests.

What's in the US's interest is to stop screwing up the war on terrorism. This operation obviously needs some fixing, and it would be in all of our interests if they did so.

[DEHog]

By saying people like me would have done nothing after Sept 11th is a little offensive.

I didn't...and you say we don't read?? I asked what would you have done??

It's a war, SOME innocent people are going to die, but when you kill a prisoner, or bomb a wedding, then things aren't exactly going to plan. We needed to do a lot of things that weren't done to have the best possible outcome for this conflict that we failed to do. It's astonishing that no one else has acknowledged this!]

Which is it?? You cry about the prison and the wedding and then you say some innocent people are going to die?? Of course I acknowledge it and the US as also acknowledged it. Why do you bashed your country for the very thing other countrys failed to do?Nice to see both sides of you neck are working

]

The problem I see is that people are treating this like an ordinary war. It's not. Our objective here isn't to kill more of them than they do of us The object is to help stabalize the region while making it harder for terrorism being supported. We will never get all the terrorists, ever. Also, the middle east will probably still hate us after we leave their countries in better shape than when we went in.

Did you really say this?? Ever been to war? Ever seen a war? Ever watch a movie about war. Things don't go as planned, very easy to sit back and do a little Monday Morning QBing. Damn whatever happened to supporting our country?? It's so sad what's taking place here now, the terrorist don't have to do anything else they already won!!

I'm just glad my friend Chris is a military policeman/field artillery soldier. He can keep his distance from the REAL action. (Besides the occasional ambush or IED). Hey, if he's over there until January or February what do you think he'll be doing after we turn over power? Just guard duty? Moving to a different country? Anyone care to speculate?

Ok try...he'll continue to provide, support, defend and serve the freedom we enjoy here in this great country!!

[redskincity]

You almost joined the 109th??? BS you go where they send u!

They cut orders for u

::Stares at D Green bobblehead::

Whats your suggestions on fixin this situation in Iraq?? SF55

The only substance you have is you have been to a military barracks.

Man....write your congress.

The format that you are using is very outdated and does not work on all of us

Its very obvious you dont know anything about the military other than what your "friend" told you.

Maybe www.google.com can give you more. Perhaps??

[Skinsfan55]

DEHog,

You did say that if more and more people like me were in public policy making then nothing would have been done about 9/11, not true. I would have taken a similar course of action, except one with MUCH more tact involved.

I would have tapped into the intelligence gathering agencies of all our allies and tried to find evidence of terrorist camps etc. The CIA would be on the road to immediate overhaul (sort of like it is now) and I would not have added anti-terrorism abroad to the FBI's priority list (they have more work than any other government law enforcement agency, why give them extra responsibility?) I would have replaced the CIA director, given them a little more money for the budget and increase their power (while keeping them on a tighter leash, unlike in the cold war). Ground troops would have been a last resort to artillery and I would have gathered all the intelligence I could get on where terrorist bases might be and fire missiles at them until it was needed for the eventual ground troops to come clean up the weakened terrorist defenses. Any countries not willing to fully coorperate with our hunt for terrorist organizations would be toppled and new governments put in place (kind of like now, but with more tact, we are really showing no respect for the citizens and making no distinction between them and the bad guys.) Part of the basic training before ground troop deployment would be in Muslim cultures and it would be held in very high importance that we're going in to help them while respecting their beliefs.

I said, SOME civilians will die but when you bomb 40 people all of whom probably were innocent, and kill unarmed prisoners something is wrong. When you drop a bomb, you don't get all terrorists. It happens, but you should at least have good intelligence before you drop one.

Yes, things don't always go as planned in a war, but things like respecting basic human rights, and having solid intelligence shouldn't be overlooked. They are still my country, but I want what they are doing to change. If the Redskins just started losing games that they should be winning, you would still want them to win, you'd still love them, but you'd want them to fix the problem and continue. Just like I do with the US. Fix these problems and continue.

And those last lines were really just cheap. C'mon now.

[Skinsfan55]

You almost joined the 109th??? BS you go where they send u!

They cut orders for u

National Guard RScity, National Guard. My friend joined the 109th in Nanticoke PA at the Barracks downtown, I almost did the same. Luckily I moved. Anyway, they got activated and were changed from a Field Artilery Battalion to Military Police... seems pretty boring right now, he's escorting repairmen around the desert to fix this water pump. ::yawn::

[redskincity]

You almost joined the 109th??? BS you go where they send u!

They cut orders for u

National Guard RScity, National Guard. My friend joined the 109th in Nanticoke PA at the Barracks downtown, I almost did the same. Luckily I moved. Anyway, they got activated and were changed from a Field Artilery Battalion to Military Police... seems pretty boring right now, he's escorting repairmen around the desert to fix this water pump. ::yawn::

He could be on the frontline, so he should count his blessings

[Redskins Rule]

The 109th what???

What unit is the 109th?

I didn't know you could pick out your units...I thought they put you where they needed you.

Maybe times have changed...But bottom line is you never signed up. And you don't rate to talk trash about our troops fighting this war. You know nothing about war except which you watch on CNN. You've never been in one so...just shut up. You don't rate to speak bad things about those who are in a war.

When you bash our troops for mistakenly bombing a wedding party or murdering a prisoner the first chance you get. It really pisses me off. Did you not hear the Pentagon's report? They said it was a weapon's cache. That means they thought they were bombing a weapons cache. Mabye they did and the Arabs are making this up. It wasn't murder. The prisoner....you never answered my question on how do you know it was a murder? You know crap about it. You were not there. The military is doing there investigation in the whole prison case. Let them find out what really happened to that prisoner. Do you know how they are going to find out? First they will talk to those that WERE THERE!!!!

Just shut up....quit bashing the US Military on every chance you get when you don't even know what your talking about

[Skinsfan55]

The 109th what???

What unit is the 109th?

I didn't know you could pick out your units...I thought they put you where they needed you.

Maybe times have changed...But bottom line is you never signed up. And you don't rate to talk trash about our troops fighting this war. You know nothing about war except which you watch on CNN. You've never been in one so...just shut up. You don't rate to speak bad things about those who are in a war.

When you bash our troops for mistakenly bombing a wedding party or murdering a prisoner the first chance you get. It really pisses me off. Did you not hear the Pentagon's report? They said it was a weapon's cache. That means they thought they were bombing a weapons cache. Mabye they did and the Arabs are making this up. It wasn't murder. The prisoner....you never answered my question on how do you know it was a murder? You know crap about it. You were not there. The military is doing there investigation in the whole prison case. Let them find out what really happened to that prisoner. Do you know how they are going to find out? First they will talk to those that WERE THERE!!!!

Just shut up....quit bashing the US Military on every chance you get when you don't even know what your talking about

I am not even going to dignify this complete and utter garbage with a response. You want to discuss this issue then take a timeout and come back when you feel you are able.

[Skinsfan55]

You almost joined the 109th??? BS you go where they send u!

They cut orders for u

National Guard RScity, National Guard. My friend joined the 109th in Nanticoke PA at the Barracks downtown, I almost did the same. Luckily I moved. Anyway, they got activated and were changed from a Field Artilery Battalion to Military Police... seems pretty boring right now, he's escorting repairmen around the desert to fix this water pump. ::yawn::

He could be on the frontline, so he should count his blessings

He was more or less until he was transfered. He was in Baghdad until a couple weeks ago. He was running patrols through the city and he was in a couple skirmishes and his convoy was even hit by an IED... he's okay though. His unit moved to a new base now, and he says it might be safer but the living conditions stink and it's boring...

[redskincity]

Yeah I hear weird bizarre things coming from that statcom.(Iraq)

[Redskins Rule]

HELL NO SKINS FAN!!!!!!!!

YOU WALK AWAY AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID!!!!!!!!!

THEN COME BACK WHEN YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU JUST DON'T RATE TO TALK TRASH ABOUT THE US MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!

[Skinsfan55]

HELL NO SKINS FAN!!!!!!!!

YOU WALK AWAY AND THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID!!!!!!!!!

THEN COME BACK WHEN YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU JUST DON'T RATE TO TALK TRASH ABOUT THE US MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!

No one is trash talking the military you ignoramous. Why don't you go play in a microwave?

This operation in Iraq needs to be cleaned up, and if you can't accept that as fact then maybe you should make an effort to become more informed.

[DEHog]

Whatch you tude 55 this is the lounge not the smack forum. RR didn't insult you but you sure insulted him be the ignoramous comment. Why does he have to "accept it as fact" He's not allowed to have a opinion??

[Skinsfan55]

Whatch you tude 55 this is the lounge not the smack forum. RR didn't insult you but you sure insulted him be the ignoramous comment. Why does he have to "accept it as fact" He's not allowed to have a opinion??

You can have an opinion, but if my opinion is that the world is flat against a mountain of evidence, then that's pretty silly.

Things aren't going right in Iraq and it's plain as day. People can argue until their face turns blue and they'll still be wrong.

What gets me is the blatant lies that people make up and assume I believe. I certainly am not "badmouthing" the military. They are a resource that can be misused, what's so hard to understand about that?

[DEHog]

Nothing, but maybe there're a few here who feel differently. Maybe those of us who are military don't feel we are being "misued" How can you a 20 year old who has only stepped on a scale in a recruiters office and was over by a few poounds (you story) define what is misue??

[Skinsfan55]

The fact is, I'm not pinning the problems in Iraq (of which there are many) on the rank and file soldiers there. They are getting bad intelligence and not being trained as well as they should. My friend Chris had never even thought about becoming a military policeman before, but sure enough... he learned in a couple weeks a job that would take significantly longer if you had signed up to be an MP in the first place right?

Things are going wrong and I am saying it's NOT Joe Soldier's fault, that higher powers are to blame and that the operation needs to be fixed.

[Irn-Bru]

Whatch you tude 55 this is the lounge not the smack forum. RR didn't insult you but you sure insulted him be the ignoramous comment. Why does he have to "accept it as fact" He's not allowed to have a opinion??

You can have an opinion, but if my opinion is that the world is flat against a mountain of evidence, then that's pretty silly.

Things aren't going right in Iraq and it's plain as day. People can argue until their face turns blue and they'll still be wrong.

What gets me is the blatant lies that people make up and assume I believe. I certainly am not "badmouthing" the military. They are a resource that can be misused, what's so hard to understand about that?

SF55, I'd like to clear up a few things here, because I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say "things aren't going right."

There are the obvious "things" such as the prison abuse situation and the wedding party situation which you have repeatedly mentioned. As for the wedding party, CNN reports that, among other things, US troops only returned fire when fired at. What a wedding party was doing firing at US troops I don't know, but I'd check that story out a bit more if I were you--I found a couple of interesting articles on it. Here's the news bit.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/ ... index.html

Are "things" the fact that there are American troops that are dying in Iraq? That in itself is a tragedy. But are we involved in the "Quagmire" that is constantly reported by our media?

Keep in mind that the relative number of casualities on our side for this war is astoundingly low compared to that of any other war fought in our nation's history. Even April, the bloodiest month thus far of the war in Iraq, had less than half of the casualties than the best month of the 5-year campaign in Vietnam. This war has been portrayed (and thus seems to be "plain as day") as a complete mess. Yet, as one commentator pointed out, "You might want to ask a few WWII, Korean War, and Viet Nam vets how they feel about your definition of 'particularly bloody.' We're sure they'd give you an earful."
I don't think you're referring to straight casualties.

Could it be the general feeling among the populace in Iraq who don't want us there? Read any number of polls, commentators, the solidiers themselves, and you will quickly learn that the majority of Iraqis not only are enjoying new-found freedoms, but that the actual resistance is less significant than one could ever ascertain from reading the news.

Here's the weblog of a solidier in Iraq (actually he's back on leave but will write soon. Until then you can browse his archives which are packed with interesting stories about how well the US has been received and is appreciated).

http://daggerjag.blogspot.com/2004_05_0 ... 4897332753

Another article that will be worth your read if you are truly interested in forming a correct perspective on the matter:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jeff ... 0402.shtml

Is it the general "inhumanity" supposedly displayed by our troops? I doubt it. Yes, the civilian casualty toll in climbing up to 10,000 (the numbers are disputed but that's ballpark right now), but even this is skewed when one considers the enemies tactics (I won't insult you by spelling them out here--but we all know how women and children are used). Keep in mind that we bombed the absolute crap out of a downtown area. That civilian number is absolutely miniscule compared to what it would have been 60 years ago (like the attacks on London, Berlin, etc.). Our army has conducted the most humane war that has ever -- has EVER been fought.

Challenge me on that one.

Do it with some statistics regarding other armies. There have been attrocities far worse than making prisoners get naked in every war ever. The hysteria of our media (which, again, is what makes things "plain as day" for we the citizens who aren't in Iraq ourselves) has been noted by many a commentator.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thom ... 0519.shtml

There's one, I won't bore you with any more.

This leaves me with the prison scandal as the only thing that I can really think of as "things going wrong" in ways that need absolute major change. Here we agree. In fact, the whole freakin' nation agrees, right up to the President himself. Everyone that needed to has apologized and condemned what has happened. The solidiers involved are on trial as we speak (while, may I again remind you, Scot Peterson is not even after that whole debacle. . .how long ago was it?) We've made every effort to apologize for the mistake, and it won't happen again.

So, I'm going to assume from now on that you're happy with what's going on, since I can't think of any other "things going wrong" that you are citing are in "plain view." If we bring a little perspective to the debate I think that, despite difficulties and hardships, for the most part this war has gone extrememly well for the Iraqis and not too badly for ourselves. There are many solidiers involved in the action who would agree with me here.

[redskincity]

^^^^Deep^^^^

[DEHog]

Great post FFA...I hope it will help 55 to begin to understand this war. This is my generations war...I have great respect for the generations that went before us. They gave us the freedoms we have today, we just preserve it.