The Smart thing to do with Cousins

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:21 pm

PLEASE stop making it sound like this FO is going to "deal' Cousins OR not do everything they can to keep him here

IF Cousins wants to play here he will and he will get a huge contract to do that - actually, he will get a lot more money than he's worth

IF Cousins does not want to play here this FO is not going to just let him go

Cousins is just a good NFL QB and he's by far the best fit for this franchise at this time BUT the success of this franchise does not depend on having him play QB here - under good management, this franchise will be fine with or without The Best Redskin In Decades

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Deadskins wrote:
markshark84 wrote:Final four teams:
ATL: Matt Ryan #1 in QBR
NE: Tom Brady #2 in QBR
GB: Aaron Rogers: #4 in QBR
PIT: Ben Roethsburger: #9 in QBR

I think there is a commonality here..... And you said that with Cousins we are "one and done at best" --- well, based on the outcomes this weekend, that doesn't appear to be the case. The teams that won this weekend were those with good QB play and mediocre/above avg. DEFs ---- ATL & GB (mediocre), PIT (above avg.). NE's DEF however, is top 5 but played a team that would have been 6-10 if they played in the NFC East.

Although this hasn't been that common in the past, the better QB trumped the top DEF (ATL > SEA, NE > HOU, PIT > KC) this year. The model is there. We have the more important piece -- a top 5 QBR QB. Use FA and the draft to build our DEF. Cousins is our best and most impactful player. Dealing him for a couple players that may or may not even become starters is straight up dumb. History has proven this to be 100% correct.
All four of those guys are as clutch as they come. I'd love to know Cousins' QBR in big games. I'd bet it's nowhere near his overall score.

I totally understand your point and agree that Cousins' inability to win in BIG games is a VERY VERY big concern. .....

But to reiterate, the point still stands in that the team with the better QB (or the QB having the better season) won:
Brady > Osweiler
Rogers > Prescott
Roth > Smith
Ryan > Wilson

And one could also make a STRONG argument that the teams without the best QB (DAL, KC, SEA, HOU) had better teams outside the QB position than the team that beat them..... Even for HOU, although that particular argument is far more difficult than the other 3.

One correction to you post though is Ryan has the same playoff record as Tony Romo; playing against Wilson who is considered clutch.....

Regardless, it would be interesting to see Cousins' QBR in "big" games. I agree in that my guess would be that it is significantly lower than his seasonal averages. As I said, he's been bad in "big" games, but I also believe that we don't have the team to support him against top teams in those "big" games. I recall him as being one of the only decent players in our playoff game last year vs. GB.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:22 pm

Prescott's season QBR was 3rd to Brady & Ryan and above Rogers - he also had a better QBR than Rogers in the game last night

The Packers may have won because of Rogers but the stupid pukes did NOT lose because of their QB - Prescott out played a future HOF player

Cousins will get a huge contract that will be way over what he's worth - when Prescott signs his contract it will eclipse Cousins and it will likely not be as much as he's worth

RigAr4456 · Post by **RigAr4456** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:23 am

SkinsJock wrote:Prescott's season QBR was 3rd to Brady & Ryan and above Rogers - he also had a better QBR than Rogers in the game last night

The Packers may have won because of Rogers but the stupid pukes did NOT lose because of their QB - Prescott out played a future HOF player

Cousins will get a huge contract that will be way over what he's worth - when Prescott signs his contract it will eclipse Cousins and it will likely not be as much as he's worth

I agree with this post until you typed, "Prescott out played a future HOF player." Most of planet Earth knows that #12 played one of the best postseason games in history, except for maybe, hmmm let's see - you!

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:51 am

SkinsJock wrote:he [Prescott] also had a better QBR than Rogers in the game last night

Incorrect. Rogers had a higher QBR for the game than Prescott.

SkinsJock wrote:The Packers may have won because of Rogers but the stupid pukes did NOT lose because of their QB - Prescott out played a future HOF player

That was my point --- GB won because of their QB play --- the better QB play..... Never said Prescott had a bad game; Rogers was just better. Not sure where you are going with this. And literally anyone with eyes knew that Rogers outplayed Dak. I haven't heard one person on the planet (except you) say otherwise. There are currently jokes on social media about how Rogers showed Dak how a real NFL QB plays in the playoffs. Not sure what you saw...... but it is way off.

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins will get a huge contract that will be way over what he's worth - when Prescott signs his contract it will eclipse Cousins and it will likely not be as much as he's worth

Prescott has like 4 more years until he gets a new deal. Not sure why you are even talking about that. Prescott is a solid QB, no question. Quality QBs always get what they are worth or more. If he shows that or continues to show that and improve over those years, he'll get what he wants and most likely end up being the highest paid player in the league.

And with respect to Cousins, no QB carried their team this season more than he did other than Brees, Rogers, and Luck.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:57 pm

FWIW - Dak Prescott had a better QBR than Aaron Rogers in that game and for the season ...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:00 pm

At this time, there is POSSIBLY only 1 team in the NFL that would prefer to have Cousins at QB over Dak Prescott

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:47 pm

SkinsJock wrote:FWIW - Dak Prescott had a better QBR than Aaron Rogers in that game ...

WRONG. I don't think you know what QBR is..... It's NOT QB rating, which is a BS stat.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400927749

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:53 pm

SkinsJock wrote:At this time, there is POSSIBLY only 1 team in the NFL that would prefer to have Cousins at QB over Dak Prescott

You may be right --- or wrong. But either way, you have absolutely no F#<&ing clue what you are talking about since you have not spoken to any of the 32 franchise front offices......

The majority of Cowboys fans down here believe Dak is nothing more than a game manager --- at least the majority of the 20 or so I know. Most think that if Romo played they'd be in the Superbowl. I disagree with them, but I only watch 2 DAL games a year.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:25 pm

markshark84 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:At this time, there is POSSIBLY only 1 team in the NFL that would prefer to have Cousins at QB over Dak Prescott

You may be right --- or wrong. But either way, you have absolutely no F#<&ing clue what you are talking about since you have not spoken to any of the 32 franchise front offices......

The majority of Cowboys fans down here believe Dak is nothing more than a game manager --- at least the majority of the 20 or so I know. Most think that if Romo played they'd be in the Superbowl. I disagree with them, but I only watch 2 DAL games a year.

I'm not sure at this point Jones is willing to let Romo go?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:05 pm

markshark84 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:FWIW - Dak Prescott had a better QBR than Aaron Rogers in that game ...
WRONG. I don't think you know what QBR is..... It's NOT QB rating, which is a BS stat.

OK - MAYBE I'm wrong - this QBR must stand for something else ...

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/boxscore?id=7954

I have never thought much of Dak Prescott as he made a lot of rookie mistakes but he sure looks like he could become a really good NFL QB and more importantly a QB that knows how to help his team win

Cousins has not shown much more than that he can put up good stats - OR, maybe he needs a little better help from the sidelines

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:13 pm

markshark84 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:At this time, there is POSSIBLY only 1 team in the NFL that would prefer to have Cousins at QB over Dak Prescott
You may be right --- or wrong. But either way, you have absolutely no F#<&ing clue what you are talking about since you have not spoken to any of the 32 franchise front offices......

The majority of Cowboys fans down here believe Dak is nothing more than a game manager --- at least the majority of the 20 or so I know. Most think that if Romo played they'd be in the Superbowl. I disagree with them, but I only watch 2 DAL games a year.

have you spoken to anyone, in any of the 32 offices? even 1 person? I have

I could care less what the puke fans think or the puke media print - that kid is looking like becoming a really good QB and shows a ton more promise after his first season than Cousins has ever shown

I don't want Dak Prescott to be our QB - I want Cousins to be our QB ... until we can find a better one - HOPEFULLY really soon

El Mexican · Post by **El Mexican** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:49 pm

...

Thanks Mark, all valid points. We've seen fantastic QB play during this year's playoffs, no doubt.

I'm just saying that maybe we are not as well of as you suggest. I saw tremendous problems

with our team during the season. The defense is obviously the most obvious, but the RB and O-line situations

are not completely stable. That's a lot of problems already. I'm not as optimistic as to the overall quality of team, not just our QB.

And, as I said earlier, we are one ugly hit away to KC from throwing a season out the window. Too many eggs in one basket.

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:23 pm

El Mexican wrote:
...
Thanks Mark, all valid points. We've seen fantastic QB play during this year's playoffs, no doubt.

I'm just saying that maybe we are not as well of as you suggest. I saw tremendous problems

with our team during the season. The defense is obviously the most obvious, but the RB and O-line situations

are not completely stable. That's a lot of problems already. I'm not as optimistic as to the overall quality of team, not just our QB.

And, as I said earlier, we are one ugly hit away to KC from throwing a season out the window. Too many eggs in one basket.

To be clear. I don't think we are in "good shape" --- I never eluted that either. We have a bottom 3 DEF, a bottom 10 special teams, a bottom 10 running game, and a mediocre OL that Cousins makes look good due to his ability to get the ball out fast. We have 2 WRs that we most likely won't be able to resign. A TE that can't stay on the field. Sure we have pieces -- a good OG, OT, C, WR, QB, OLBs, CB, --- but not near enough.

I agree, we are a mess in many ways --- BUT we have a QB, which is the most difficult position to stabilize in the NFL. And that QB is the reason we are competitive ---- and no other reason. You just don't throw that away for a couple hit or miss draft picks. Sorry, you just don't. You only do that when you have someone waiting in the wings --- like when Montana was traded and Steve Young took over or when PHI traded Bradford and started Wentz (after their HC determine the replacement value was on par with the quality of the starter). We do not have that situation --- not even close.

Almost every successful team in the NFL invests 10-15% of their cap on a QB. It's not "too many eggs in one basket" ---- when it's the QB!!!! In the NFL you HAVE TO HAVE those eggs in there --- or you're a losing franchise.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:43 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
markshark84 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:FWIW - Dak Prescott had a better QBR than Aaron Rogers in that game ...
WRONG. I don't think you know what QBR is..... It's NOT QB rating, which is a BS stat.
OK - MAYBE I'm wrong - this QBR must stand for something else ... http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/boxscore?id=7954

It must stand for something else because ...

Total Quarterback Rating (abbreviated as Total QBR or simply QBR) is a proprietary statistic created by ESPN Inc. and QBR has a range from 0 to 100.

Your link is to Fox and they give Dak a QBR of 103.2 so this is not the QBR invented by ESPN. Rather, it is the passer rating.

AR barely edged out Dak in QBR in this game: 83.9 to 82.7.

BUT ... from ESPN.com:

So Dak had a higher QBR than AR this season. I wonder what the QBRs were for the last 6 games.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:36 am

Rogers numbers since he played us...
83.7 Dal
83.0 NY
80.5 Det
95.4 Min
50.5 Chi
77.2 Sea
84.2 Hou
92.6 Phi
Avg 80.88

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:01 am

From Boswell today...

Name the top five quarterbacks in the NFL in the past two years combined. Yes, two years.
Are they Tom Brady, Matt Ryan (possible 2016 NFL MVP), Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Cousins, in that order? That’s what the NFL’s quarterback rating system says. (Aaron Rodgers is sixth.)

Are they Brady, Ryan, Brees, Ben Roethlisberger and Cousins? That’s what ESPN’s total QBR system, which tries to de-emphasize “garbage yards” and focus on clutch ability in high-leverage situations, would say. (Rodgers is sixth.)

Are they Brees, Ryan, Philip Rivers, Cousins and Carson Palmer? They lead in total passing yards.

Are they Ryan, Roethlisberger, Brady, Cousins and Brees? That’s what net-yards-per-attempt says. That’s a number that includes yardage lost on sacks as well as passing yards gained.

Who gets the ball in the end zone most often, by his passing or running combined? The top five: Rodgers, Brees, Cam Newton, Brady and Cousins, who is third among all quarterbacks in rushing scores.

Whichever barometer you choose, Cousins is in some pretty elite company. Look at the ages of the others mentioned above like Brady (39), Brees (turned 38 on Sunday), Palmer (37) and Roethlisberger (34). Cousins is 28. With only two years as a starting quarterback, he may not even be at his peak.

Is Cousins one of the best five quarterbacks in the NFL? I didn’t say that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/r ... 80724b4d22

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:01 pm

Cousins is a good NFL QB and he can point to great stats over the past 2 years but he's not the "difference maker" that really good NFL QBs are - stats can be misleading and this is a good example of that

Really good NFL QBs do not need 'excuses' - they just make their franchises more successful on the field each week

RigAr4456 · Post by **RigAr4456** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:27 pm

Kyle Shanahan to 49ers would lead to intrigue for Kirk Cousins, Redskins

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-red ... s-redskins

EA7649 · Post by **EA7649** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:48 pm

RigAr4456 wrote:Kyle Shanahan to 49ers would lead to intrigue for Kirk Cousins, Redskins

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-red ... s-redskins

I read this and was going to post or comment about it! I find that interesting and I would take the 2nd pick in the draft in a heart beat. Although as mentioned in the link that probably wouldn't be the case

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:15 pm

Nobody in their right mind would give up that pick for Cousins ... then again ...

be great if Cousins is playing QB here next season but it's not the end of the world if he's not here either

hitmandm · Post by **hitmandm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:10 am

OMG The reports that SF may trade us the #2 pick and more for a QB that is a choke artist who will never take a team to a SB is a dream come true. For their 2 first picks, I would throw Fat Gruden in too.

With McVay gone and stupid, fat Gruden who can't even manage a play clock calling the offensive side of the ball, there is no way the choking pick machine Kirk Cousins wont regress into a ball of boneheaded errors. Plus we are going to lose a WR. Kirk's value will never be higher. Let's trade him before his value goes back down.

With Gruden and Cousins, we are checkmated and most don't even know it. We will never win with those two. Can you imagine spending the next bunch of years looking at Gruden staring off into space clueless and telling the media he was outcoached because he doesn't have the basic sense to call a TO properly. Cousins just continues to throw picks and look bad in games that count on the big stage. He will be marching to 30 years old by the start of next season- he is at his peak.

Trade Captain Pick. Fire fat Gruden sometime in the next season or so and let's build this stuff with people who aren't losers and chokers.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:50 pm

IF the 49ers want to trade that pick for Cousins I hope the Redskins do whatever it takes to make that happen ...

http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/1/21/1434 ... rk-cousins

UNBELIEVABLE ... no wonder that franchise is in such disarray - the pick next year will also be top 5 with both Cousins and Shanahan

hitmandm · Post by **hitmandm** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:05 pm

SkinsJock wrote:IF the 49ers want to trade that pick for Cousins I hope the Redskins do whatever it takes to make that happen ...

http://www.hogshaven.com/2017/1/21/1434 ... rk-cousins

UNBELIEVABLE ... no wonder that franchise is in such disarray - the pick next year will also be top 5 with both Cousins and Shanahan

You have been calling scenario first. Hopefully it goes down like you said.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:57 am

Re: The Smart thing to do with Cousins

I feel the smart thing would have been not to low-ball him last year w $ 24 M guaranteed and who knows how little over the life of whatever offer we made. We were penny wise and pound foolish then and I fear the same now.

How good would $100 M - $120 M over 5-6 years w $50 M guaranteed a year ago look now?

But now is now.

I'd suggest a meeting where both sides bring a proposal. We trade envelopes and open them.

If our offer is bigger than their ask then we meet in the middle.

We should bring $100 M - $120 M over 5-6 years w $50 M guaranteed to the table. Kirk + agent would likely bring something higher.

We could then try to compromise with a pre-set limit in mind. Hopefully, their proposal is below our pre-set limit.