The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

DEHog wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:From Keim: "When he benched Griffin for Cousins this summer, many in the locker room liked the move because it signaled that the players performing the best would play." Gruden was hired to win. He knew he would lose the locker room by sticking with Griffin, so he did what he needed to do.

So if SM was never hired everything would have gone down the same way? Snyder never interfered or influenced who played QB last year?

Deadskins wrote:It's not a BS criticism. If you don't believe that getting RGIII back on track didn't figure into Gruden's hiring, then you have to be blind to the fact that the Danny likes Bob a little bit.
Also, we didn't even hire a QB coach until this year.

SkinsJock wrote:there is no doubt at all that one of the main attributes the Redskins were looking for in their new HC was to bring in someone that could help straighten out their prized possession - certainly they also hoped he would become a good NFL HC - Jay Gruden failed at that endeavor for possibly very valid reasons but he did, that's a fact - Jay Gruden is only still here because we have Scot and a FO that made Snyder not do that

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:It's not a BS criticism. If you don't believe that getting RGIII back on track didn't figure into Gruden's hiring, then you have to be blind to the fact that the Danny likes Bob a little bit.
Also, we didn't even hire a QB coach until this year.

Then it was a BS expectation.

I get your point about Snyder and of course it was expected that he would try to develop Griffin when he was hired. Gruden gave RG3 two full off seasons of work to do it. I give Gruden more credit for being willing to stand up and say this isn't working than continuing to put Griffin at risk week after week just because Snyder wanted it.

I know Danny is such an expert on all things football related, but...

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If quarterbacks and offensive guru Mike Shanahan couldn't turn RGIII into a pocket passer what in the hell made anyone think Jay Gruden could?

DEHog wrote:If I’m being honest I was a bit surprised at how quickly Gruden bailed on RG…it wasn’t a few games in (notwithstanding the injury) that Gruden started throwing RG under the bus.

DEHog wrote:I think it speaks to how difficult it was/is going to be to develop him. Still for a coach who was brought here to develop him, I thought he bailed pretty quick, and it’s one of the only times I agreed with Snyder that is was too soon to do so. You know Snyder first, second and last reasons for hiring Gruden was to turn the RGIII lead Redskins into winners.

Deadskins wrote:Also, I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Also, I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

And this is why I said its a BS criticism. We're criticizing Gruden for failing to deliver on Snyder's unrealistic expectations for RG3. Instead, he took charge, made a decision as the head coach and is attempting to deliver a winning season instead.

PulpExposure wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I forgot to put this within my initial response, but if I reference a stat and found it on a particular website, I usually provide the link. In cases like this one, I just provide the stat since I had to run the #s myself.

Just saw on ESPN:

Since Week 7, Cousins has the NFL’s best passer rating at 111.5, according to ESPN Stats & Information.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:If I’m being honest I was a bit surprised at how quickly Gruden bailed on RG…it wasn’t a few games in (notwithstanding the injury) that Gruden started throwing RG under the bus.

Well the throwing him under the bus thing was a direct response to Griffin throwing teammates under the bus at the time if you remember. I think it was the head coach putting a player who thought too highly of himself in his place. Whether or not it was right to do so publicly is debatable.

DEHog wrote:I think it speaks to how difficult it was/is going to be to develop him. Still for a coach who was brought here to develop him, I thought he bailed pretty quick, and it’s one of the only times I agreed with Snyder that is was too soon to do so. You know Snyder first, second and last reasons for hiring Gruden was to turn the RGIII lead Redskins into winners.

Yeah I get that.

Don't you think that's kind of easy for us to say though? You're the head coach out there watching this guy at practice for months and you know he's not getting it done or worse you realize he's way further behind than you thought. The guys on the team know it. You can't run a basic NFL offense with him. You know you can't win anytime soon with him. I know I'm exaggerating and guessing at some of that. I'm just saying I think you're right in your statement about how difficult the task was/is.

I think it was also exacerbated by this whole naming him the day one starter thing. Maybe he would have been better off taking a back seat as the 2d string for a while and having time to learn that way rather than trying to learn in live games.

What I'm really saying here is Dan Snyder sucks.

Deadskins wrote:Well, not if you believe, like some do, that he should be held accountable for not doing what he was hired to do. I'm fine with the way things worked out IF we can go on to accomplish bigger goals as a team (though I probably give SM more credit for that than JG). If we are going to be a 3 to 5 win team every year anyway, then why not hold Gruden at least to the standard for which he was hired?

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Also, I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

And this is why I said its a BS criticism. We're criticizing Gruden for failing to deliver on Snyder's unrealistic expectations for RG3. Instead, he took charge, made a decision as the head coach and is attempting to deliver a winning season instead.

Well, not if you believe, like some do, that he should be held accountable for not doing what he was hired to do.

DEHog wrote:I just think (and wished) RG would have gotten most of the reps in most of the games last year so the team could have put it to rest. Not like we were winning anyhting last year. If that had happened they may have moved on from him already??

markshark84 wrote:I honestly think that is one of the reasons why we've had so many HCs since Danny boy purchased the team. Danny hires these guys and asks them to win with the players he and whichever yes-man president of operations he hires --- which is basically an impossible task.

hitmandm wrote:Gruden gave RG3 no chance. That is what he was hired to do regardless if anyone else thinks differently. The reason why he gave RG3 no chance is what will most likely cost Fat Gruden his job either this year or next. Fat Gruden did not give RG3 a chance because he cannot adjust his scheme to anything but the one and only way he does things. He cannot adapt. It was his MO in Cincy and it is his MO here. Sure me might not have liked RG3 for valid personal reasons, but abandoning the directive of your boss 3 preseason games into your first year as coach after you said you were going to do those very things will get you fired anywhere, in any industry because the boss cannot trust you to your word and your ability.

Fat Gruden's teams are getting lucky and that is why they are winning games. Romo being hurt. The Giants missing most of their offensive line. We cannot win games where the opposing team is competent. In fact, we get embarrassed by those teams constantly. Cosuins should have had Cromartie pick 6 him, but for whatever lucky reason it was dropped. Cousins cannot win anything for us. Teams lose to us. TB getting a franchise record setting penalties, Eli throwing three picks behing a make-shift Oline- both games at home and won by a total of 7 points.

Cousins needs to do it and not every other week when teams are imploding. The guy goes from embarrassment to perfect rating to embarrassment in a span of three games over and over.

DS needs to look at these results in a clear light and come to the only conclusion he can: Gruden is not the coach of this team. We are worse than our record indicates and Cousins is not performing as a starting QB in this league.

DEHog wrote:

hitmandm wrote:Gruden gave RG3 no chance. That is what he was hired to do regardless if anyone else thinks differently. The reason why he gave RG3 no chance is what will most likely cost Fat Gruden his job either this year or next. Fat Gruden did not give RG3 a chance because he cannot adjust his scheme to anything but the one and only way he does things. He cannot adapt. It was his MO in Cincy and it is his MO here. Sure me might not have liked RG3 for valid personal reasons, but abandoning the directive of your boss 3 preseason games into your first year as coach after you said you were going to do those very things will get you fired anywhere, in any industry because the boss cannot trust you to your word and your ability.

Fat Gruden's teams are getting lucky and that is why they are winning games. Romo being hurt. The Giants missing most of their offensive line. We cannot win games where the opposing team is competent. In fact, we get embarrassed by those teams constantly. Cosuins should have had Cromartie pick 6 him, but for whatever lucky reason it was dropped. Cousins cannot win anything for us. Teams lose to us. TB getting a franchise record setting penalties, Eli throwing three picks behing a make-shift Oline- both games at home and won by a total of 7 points.

Cousins needs to do it and not every other week when teams are imploding. The guy goes from embarrassment to perfect rating to embarrassment in a span of three games over and over.

DS needs to look at these results in a clear light and come to the only conclusion he can: Gruden is not the coach of this team. We are worse than our record indicates and Cousins is not performing as a starting QB in this league.

C'mom man..I mean really...Gruden is not that fat!!

hitmandm wrote:Gruden gave RG3 no chance. That is what he was hired to do regardless if anyone else thinks differently.

hitmandm wrote: The reason why he gave RG3 no chance is what will most likely cost Fat Gruden his job either this year or next.

hitmandm wrote: but abandoning the directive of your boss 3 preseason games into your first year as coach after you said you were going to do those very things will get you fired anywhere, in any industry because the boss cannot trust you to your word and your ability.

hitmandm wrote: Fat Gruden's teams are getting lucky and that is why they are winning games. Romo being hurt.

hitmandm wrote:The Giants missing most of their offensive line.

hitmandm wrote:Cosuins should have had Cromartie pick 6 him, but for whatever lucky reason it was dropped.

hitmandm wrote: DS needs to look at these results in a clear light and come to the only conclusion he can: Gruden is not the coach of this team. We are worse than our record indicates and Cousins is not performing as a starting QB in this league.

DEHog wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:From Keim:

"When he benched Griffin for Cousins this summer, many in the locker room liked the move because it signaled that the players performing the best would play."

He was hired to win. He knew he would lose the locker room by sticking with Griffin, so he did what he needed to do.

So if SM was never hired everything would have gone down the same way? Snyder never interfered or influenced who played QB last year?

SkinsJock wrote:

DEHog wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:From Keim: "When he benched Griffin for Cousins this summer, many in the locker room liked the move because it signaled that the players performing the best would play." Gruden was hired to win. He knew he would lose the locker room by sticking with Griffin, so he did what he needed to do.

So if SM was never hired everything would have gone down the same way? Snyder never interfered or influenced who played QB last year?

good luck with trying to get this guy to see reason when it comes to Kirk Cousins

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Also, I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

And this is why I said its a BS criticism. We're criticizing Gruden for failing to deliver on Snyder's unrealistic expectations for RG3. Instead, he took charge, made a decision as the head coach and is attempting to deliver a winning season instead.

Well, not if you believe, like some do, that he should be held accountable for not doing what he was hired to do. I'm fine with the way things worked out IF we can go on to accomplish bigger goals as a team (though I probably give SM more credit for that than JG). If we are going to be a 3 to 5 win team every year anyway, then why not hold Gruden at least to the standard for which he was hired?

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

this is why I said its a BS criticism. We're criticizing Gruden for failing to deliver on Snyder's unrealistic expectations for RG3. Instead, he took charge, made a decision as the head coach and is attempting to deliver a winning season instead.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I don't like that Gruden was brought in to work with Robert and develop him...

Gruden was hired to coach the Washington Redskins...not coach one player.

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:I didn't say it was my expectation that Gruden could turn RGIII around, I said it was the Danny's and that was obviously a big part of why he was hired.

this is why I said its a BS criticism. We're criticizing Gruden for failing to deliver on Snyder's unrealistic expectations for RG3. Instead, he took charge, made a decision as the head coach and is attempting to deliver a winning season instead.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:But that it's clear that this is the best path NOW.

Coach one player? Like I implied that was his only job? Helping RGiii convert to a pro style offense was DEFINITELY something he signed up for, but bailed on. Not liking how, doesn't mean he didn't have a good why... Gruden made a lot of poor choices last year, and handled some matters poorly- ultimately that can be expected from a rookie HC though