brad7686 wrote:The frustrating thing is that we actually have been taking linemen in recent drafts, they just haven't really hit on any of them.
REALLY frustrating. Can you name a single one who has started a significant amount of time?
I think you're right about there possibly being some good options at OT in the second round, especially picking fifth. That's probably not the case with pass rushers. If you want one of the really elite guys, you probably have to get him in the first ten to fifteen picks.
Oh, I know.....I know....... Chris Samuels?
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
brad7686 wrote:The frustrating thing is that we actually have been taking linemen in recent drafts, they just haven't really hit on any of them.
REALLY frustrating. Can you name a single one who has started a significant amount of time?
I think you're right about there possibly being some good options at OT in the second round, especially picking fifth. That's probably not the case with pass rushers. If you want one of the really elite guys, you probably have to get him in the first ten to fifteen picks.
Oh, I know.....I know....... Chris Samuels?
You consider 2000 recent?
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
brad7686 wrote:The frustrating thing is that we actually have been taking linemen in recent drafts, they just haven't really hit on any of them.
REALLY frustrating. Can you name a single one who has started a significant amount of time?
I think you're right about there possibly being some good options at OT in the second round, especially picking fifth. That's probably not the case with pass rushers. If you want one of the really elite guys, you probably have to get him in the first ten to fifteen picks.
Shockingly, Chad Reinhart did. Started 26 games for the Chargers the past 2 years, 14 in Buffalo.
PulpExposure wrote:Shockingly, Chad Reinhart did. Started 26 games for the Chargers the past 2 years, 14 in Buffalo.
4 in DC.
Totally true, but I was asking about Redskins linemen that we've drafted who've started a significant number of games for this team.
Reinhart pisses me off. We spent a third round pick on him, couldn't seem to get him on the field here and cut him. Yet he was somehow good enough to go start the games you mentioned.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I looked at a number of mock draft lists today. I know these lists are usually worthless after the first couple of picks but 4 of them had the Skins taking Beasley at #5, he projects aa a great edge pass rusher. I don't have an opinion on Beasley since I didn't see Clemson play this year and I don't remember him when I watch Clemson the year before. The best college edge rusher I saw in 2015 was Gregory of Nebraska but he is low on these lists because of ganja. I am hoping the Skins trade down for more picks and focus on the OL but the guys making these lists may be right. The new GM has spent a fair amount of effort trying to upgrade our defensive personnel and maybe he tries to cap it off with great edge rusher.
I'd send Miami the #5 for their #14 and their second round pick!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
PulpExposure wrote:Shockingly, Chad Reinhart did. Started 26 games for the Chargers the past 2 years, 14 in Buffalo.
4 in DC.
Totally true, but I was asking about Redskins linemen that we've drafted who've started a significant number of games for this team.
Reinhart pisses me off. We spent a third round pick on him, couldn't seem to get him on the field here and cut him. Yet he was somehow good enough to go start the games you mentioned.
Don't blame Reinhart. Blame the coaches.
Skins fan since '55
"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln
PulpExposure wrote:Shockingly, Chad Reinhart did. Started 26 games for the Chargers the past 2 years, 14 in Buffalo.
4 in DC.
Totally true, but I was asking about Redskins linemen that we've drafted who've started a significant number of games for this team.
Reinhart pisses me off. We spent a third round pick on him, couldn't seem to get him on the field here and cut him. Yet he was somehow good enough to go start the games you mentioned.
Don't blame Reinhart. Blame the coaches.
Oh yeah man, I am COMPLETELY blaming the coaches on that. I should have written that the Reinhart SITUATION pisses me off.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Leonard Williams would be a dream come true at no.5. I have spoken to many Raiders fans and a good number of them like the idea of a WR at no. 4. Amari Cooper looks like the real deal as well. I actually think Kevin White and Amari are going to be really good WRs in the league so I wouldnt blame the Raiders at all. Jacksonville has a defensive minded coach so I dont see how Williams makes it past Jacksonville. Even though Jacksonville has a good defensive line. How can they pass up a chance to have a legendary defensive line?
The Titans could very well take Williams at no.2 as well.
My draft board goes like this. My main goal is to acquire more picks in the first round. If not then best player.
1. If Marriota is available. All in on trading this pick to the Eagles or the highest bidder. I even entertain the thought of drafting Marriotta and starting over with Marriota as QB. Even though I support RG3. If no takers are available I draft Marriota and see what I can get for RG3. If I dont like the deal I have an all out QB competition. San Francisco once had Montana and Young on the same team. Then again if I were GM I am confident I could fill the roster in one draft and season.
2. Winston? What if Winston dropped to no.5? Its the most unlikely option but if Winston somehow gets a DUI before the draft it could very well happen. If this happened I would also listen to offers. If I did not get at least two first round picks for him I would draft him as well. Winston is going to be a stud. He is already NFL ready skill wise. He would instantly make us a contender and we wouldnt have to groom him. Hed be ready right away skill wise.
3. Leonard Williams I would also listen to offers from teams. If we can get two first round picks and another second round pick I make the deal. If I cant get that then I draft him.
4. Amari Cooper I thought about this long and hard. Cooper,Kevin White, Vic Beasley, Dante Fowler Jr. or Danny Shelton? Of all these players who was the best? To me its Cooper in a landslide. Cooper is a player who has almost perfected his craft. You dont see that with the other prospects mentioned they all need some refinement. Cooper is ready to go. Cooper posseses everything you look for in a player not just a WR. Just watch some film on Cooper and see how he runs routes, never drops passes and routinely puts up big numbers. He also is never in any trouble. Good character. I am highly intrigued with Kevin WHite as well but White is not as polished or proven as Cooper. So its a bit riskier to take White.
5. Kevin White Im hoping a team out there wants Kevin White and are willing to trade up for him. If not then I draft him. Im throwing out need vs talent on this one. I am a defensive minded guy so believe me I thought about it. Kevin White has the highest ceiling but has bust potential as well. His potential is too high for me to pass up on him. He offers more potential then maybe any player in this draft. While not being as polished as Cooper or Winston. 6-4 210lbs, runs a 4.3 has the stats to go along with all that! Are you kidding me? Look at the pass rushing prospects. They all look like solid picks but none of them look like Clowney did last year. Basically Kevin White looks to be Clowney talent wise as a WR.
Dream scenerio
Marriota or Winston drop to no.5. We get two first round picks and a second round pick.
If this happened then I would hope to take two of these players listed. Kevin White, Danny Shelton, Trae Waynes or Landon Collins. Getting two from this group would not be bad at all. In the second round since we acquired an extra second round pick I use both 2nd round picks on Oline. Now that would be great.
Williams, Winston and Mariotta, in that order, are the top 3 players in the draft
If Williams makes it to 5 we take him - if either QB makes it to 5, we trade the pick
that's easy
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
HEROHAMO wrote:2. Winston? What if Winston dropped to no.5? Its the most unlikely option but if Winston somehow gets a DUI before the draft it could very well happen. If this happened I would also listen to offers. If I did not get at least two first round picks for him I would draft him as well. Winston is going to be a stud. He is already NFL ready skill wise. He would instantly make us a contender and we wouldnt have to groom him. Hed be ready right away skill wise.
Its weird but there is starting to be some noise about the Bucs possibly taking Mariota over Winston. Jaworski is out there today saying his sources tell him the Bucs are going to take Mariota. Guess we'll see.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Thought this was an interesting nugget from Mike Jones' mailbag today on Vic Beasley:
I’ve been told that the talent evaluators do like Beasley, the outside linebacker from Clemson. But, I’ve also heard that they don’t see him as a top-five pick. If the Redskins find a trade partner and move back from fifth overall, and into that 10th- to 20th-pick range, then I believe Beasley would receive strong consideration.
I've been wondering about whether they would take him at #5 or not. From what I've read he's not projected to be an every down OLB because of his size. I guess that's not a deal breaker since he could be used in a rotation with Murphy. But it does beg the question of whether or not he would be worth such a high pick.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
riggofan wrote:Thought this was an interesting nugget from Mike Jones' mailbag today on Vic Beasley:
I’ve been told that the talent evaluators do like Beasley, the outside linebacker from Clemson. But, I’ve also heard that they don’t see him as a top-five pick. If the Redskins find a trade partner and move back from fifth overall, and into that 10th- to 20th-pick range, then I believe Beasley would receive strong consideration.
I've been wondering about whether they would take him at #5 or not. From what I've read he's not projected to be an every down OLB because of his size. I guess that's not a deal breaker since he could be used in a rotation with Murphy. But it does beg the question of whether or not he would be worth such a high pick.
Disagree... If the Redskins trade back to that range... Gregory comes back into play.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:If the Redskins trade back to that range... Gregory comes back into play.
He would have to be in play, right? Get a top five talent with the #20ish pick? That's a win.
What do you think about Beasley though being worth the #5 pick or not?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Countertrey wrote:If the Redskins trade back to that range... Gregory comes back into play.
He would have to be in play, right? Get a top five talent with the #20ish pick? That's a win.
What do you think about Beasley though being worth the #5 pick or not?
Iffy. I don't see him as a pick at five... And, if we are at 12, and he and Gregory are the options... It's Gregory.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:Iffy. I don't see him as a pick at five... And, if we are at 12, and he and Gregory are there... It's Gregory.
That's what I'm thinking. What I'm curious about then is if you can't trade down from #5. Unless Fowler or Williams is there, it seems like the BPA might be one of the WRs.
Man I can't wait for the draft!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
I dont like Gregory as a prospect. Hes just too small in my opinion. Plus he has bust written all over him. How do you get a DUI after a bad performance at the combine?
If Dupree is available Id rather us take him if we trade down.
Countertrey wrote:Iffy. I don't see him as a pick at five... And, if we are at 12, and he and Gregory are there... It's Gregory.
That's what I'm thinking. What I'm curious about then is if you can't trade down from #5. Unless Fowler or Williams is there, it seems like the BPA might be one of the WRs.
Man I can't wait for the draft!
Honestly compare how polished Amari Cooper is to any of the pass rushers skill set. I agree that there is plenty of raw talent for the OLBs coming out. However watch how Amari runs routes and accelerates after a catch. Its a thing of beauty.
I wouldnt rule out Danny Shelton either. Even at no.5 I would not mind us drafting Shelton. We have potroast yes but Shelton could play alongside Potroast to create a devasting wall.
I love this... we have absolutely no idea what's going to happen... yet, there are so many dynamite options.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
Countertrey wrote:I love this... we have absolutely no idea what's going to happen... yet, there are so many dynamite options.
I have my own preferences, but no matter what scenario plays out we're going to have at least two good options open to us at #5. Even if the first four teams' draft strategy is to take away what the Redskins want, we'll still be left with good players and possibly some trade options.
Countertrey wrote:I love this... we have absolutely no idea what's going to happen... yet, there are so many dynamite options.
I have my own preferences, but no matter what scenario plays out we're going to have at least two good options open to us at #5. Even if the first four teams' draft strategy is to take away what the Redskins want, we'll still be left with good players and possibly some trade options.
I'm excited - we could actually see a draft, where the players we bring in can help this franchise unlike in the past 10+ drafts where we 1) had very few picks and 2) really did not see a big success rate percentage from those we did bring in
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Countertrey wrote:I love this... we have absolutely no idea what's going to happen... yet, there are so many dynamite options.
I have my own preferences, but no matter what scenario plays out we're going to have at least two good options open to us at #5. Even if the first four teams' draft strategy is to take away what the Redskins want, we'll still be left with good players and possibly some trade options.
I'm excited - we could actually see a draft, where the players we bring in can help this franchise unlike in the past 10+ drafts where we 1) had very few picks and 2) really did not see a big success rate percentage from those we did bring in
You know what's sad, SJ, is that we've averaged like 8.5 picks per draft over the past five years. I know a big issue with that is that we've had lot of round 6 and 7s and not enough #1s. But we've also just completely sucked at drafting. Freaking hell in 2011 we drafted 12 players. Kerrigan and Niles Paul are the only two guys still on the roster from that draft.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax "We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman
Hard to imagine a bad pick here... I'm super optimistic...
Unless Punter Kyle Loomis is at the top of the Redskins' board, sending us, collectively, into a 12 month death spiral of epithets.
"That's a clown question, bro" - - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman "But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man That he didn't, didn't already have" - - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America
riggofan wrote:You know what's sad, SJ, is that we've averaged like 8.5 picks per draft over the past five years. I know a big issue with that is that we've had lot of round 6 and 7s and not enough #1s. But we've also just completely sucked at drafting. Freaking hell in 2011 we drafted 12 players. Kerrigan and Niles Paul are the only two guys still on the roster from that draft.
The historical Danny boy FO line of thinking has always been flawed. The success model has always been draft franchise players and sign role players. Danny boy has always done the exact opposite...... and FOs' that typically lack talent do similar things.
I agree that the majority of our picks have been in rounds 5-7. Over the past 5 years 57% (25 of 42) of our picks have been in those rounds. We have only had 6 in rounds 1-2. Add on to this the fact (and support your other assertion) that we have the second worst round 6 and 7 draft pick to starter ratio -- 11% -- so statistically speaking, we have basically had a 0% chance of making the playoffs due to having a salary cap.
The nice thing is that we have a new GM and line of thinking. And, for the first time in my adult life, based on the transactions this offseason, believe that Scot is actually making decisions. What he has done this offseason isn't typical Danny boy. It's smart football and appears to be part of an actual plan. I just hope that Danny boy doesn't F$%# up the relationship or Scot messes up personally.
