The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

markshark84 wrote:And I didn't think Jay had any say in the draft. And he's been here one year --- the fact a pro-bowler hasn't been drafted in his one year here isn't surprising.....

Its not just unsurprising, its a ridiculous thing to point out. There were three rookies drafted last year who made the pro bowl and all three of them were first round picks. I think maybe Odell Beckham Jr, another first rounder, was added after some other guys dropped out.

I don't know man. Comments like that just grate on me, because it shows how delusional we are as fans. We're going to blame the HC for failing to select a pro bowl player with the 47th pick in the draft.

I'm not at all sure that RG3 is going to be a decent NFL QB but it's not time to trade him or give up on him just yet ...

fans want success now - even with the players we have it's still going to take time - some here are not being realistic in what they perceive we're going to see on the field next season - Scot and Jay have their work cut out for them in (1) building an O line and (2 & 3) finding guys that can both rush the passer and improve a secondary that was one of the worst in the NFL - all of these things will take time

we don't need to cut, trade or release ANY players without first making sure they do not fit in the plan for what we need here

I used to be a big RG3 fan but I now realize he may not work out, however, there's no reason to get rid of him AT THIS TIME - we don't have a QB right now that anyone can feel confident about, we need to give both these guys a chance AND we don't need to rebuild the O line to give either of these 2 QBs a better chance at playing QB - we need to rebuild the offensive line because no NFL QB (Manning Brady or Joe Montana) can be very effective behind a terrible O line

the offensive line was not the reason our QBs played so badly - it did not help much but the QBs have to do a better job than we saw - I think that last season was an aberration offensively - it was not a good indication of what Jay is capable of nor was it a good indication of what type of offense that Jay and Scot wanted to run here - it must have been very frustrating for those guys

BOTTOM LINE - RG3 and Cousins need to do whatever it takes to become good NFL QBs - the O line will be rebuilt and maybe 1 or both will be here in 2017 when this franchise has a good defense and a decent offensive line again

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:And I didn't think Jay had any say in the draft. And he's been here one year --- the fact a pro-bowler hasn't been drafted in his one year here isn't surprising.....

Its not just unsurprising, its a ridiculous thing to point out. There were three rookies drafted last year who made the pro bowl and all three of them were first round picks. I think maybe Odell Beckham Jr, another first rounder, was added after some other guys dropped out.

I don't know man. Comments like that just grate on me, because it shows how delusional we are as fans. We're going to blame the HC for failing to select a pro bowl player with the 47th pick in the draft.

100% agree. I found the statement completely idiotic. Most rookies aren't pro bowlers. The expectation of drafting a pro bowler without a first rounder is ludicrious. I guess I was trying to be diplomatic.

markshark84 wrote:100% agree. I found the statement completely idiotic. Most rookies aren't pro bowlers. The expectation of drafting a pro bowler without a first rounder is ludicrious. I guess I was trying to be diplomatic.

Probably the right response on your part. And I'm not trying to bash Herohamo or anything either. When I write that "we fans are delusional" I include myself 100% in that group.

- we're Redskins fans - it helps to be delusional .... some of the time

SkinsJock wrote:Thanks welch - hopefully the really low moments that we've had here recently, have helped Snyder see the light ...

I was not here for those seasons in the 6os - were there at least some good players here, like we have now?

a couple of games last season were just unbelievable and I really hope that sitting with Gibbs for that horror show woke him up ...

1960 was the all-time low. GP Marshall insisted on an all-white team, and argued with Shirley Povich every week. "Povich says that white boys can't play". There were no really good players. Mean John Paluck was decent, but the Redskins had a primitive defense. Drafted Norm Snead, who had a powerful arm, but the team was still hopeless. Improved some when Stewart Udall, Secretary of the Interior, which owned the new DC Stadium, threatened to declare the Redskins a segregated institution. Marshall spent a year or more claiming that he was "trying" to trade for Bobby Mitchell but that Paul Brown was obstinately blocking the deal. Turned out that Marshall had offered MC Reynolds. You can look him up, as Casey Stengel might have said. Reynolds was the Redskins number three QB and Mitchell was an all-pro who is now in the Hall of Fame.

We didn't know that Marshall would have a stroke or something close to it and would turn over team operations to Edward Bennett Williams. EBW changed everything: hired Otto Graham, then Vince Lombardi, and then George Allen. Gave Allen an "unlimited budget", which Allen over-spent.

markshark84 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Gruden giving up on Griffin halfway through a season is a reflection of his character as well. 1st year head coach giving up on the franchise player halfway through the season? How does that give me confidence in Jay. So far Jay has shown little proof that he knows what he is doing as a head coach. Surely he and Bruce have not drafted well either. Not one pro bowler or a starting caliber player for that matter.

Snyder is the main reason for all this mess. We all know this.

Well you must favor Kirk over Griffin then. Thats fine. Kirk is a good Qb in my opinion. But nothing is going to change unless we have a good Oline. No QB is going to have confidence standing behind the terrible Oline that was the Redskins of 2014.

Really??? Did you see the way RGIII was playing??? His QBR was in the SINGLE DIGITS. It was embarassing to watch RGIII out there. Now --- there are a TON of reasons to question Jay's ability to coach, but pulling RGIII midway thru the year is not one of them. The very fact Jay made the change shows that he isn't concerned with Danny boy's influence as much as our ex-GM.....

And I didn't think Jay had any say in the draft. And he's been here one year --- the fact a pro-bowler hasn't been drafted in his one year here isn't surprising.....

I agree with the last statement, but IMHO even with a good line, in Jay's offense, RGIII will not thrive. He is not comfortable playing in a pro style offense and takes incredibly too long to complete his progressions. I don't think things like that (ie, sorting thru progressions) change as drastically as they need to after a season or 2 in a certain system.

Ill agree to disagree. I believe with a good Oline RG3 and Alf will thrive.

Why give up on RG3 when none of our QBs took us to the playoffs? Its not like Kirk did well either. He was a turnover machine while RG3 had very few turnovers. Colt did the best but he is seriously lacking the physical tools needed to be a top tier QB.

Our oline was terrble. Our safties stunk. Our Dline needs upgrades. Our offense suffered from the situation. So why are you guys pinning this all on RG3?

riggofan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Gruden giving up on Griffin halfway through a season is a reflection of his character as well. 1st year head coach giving up on the franchise player halfway through the season? How does that give me confidence in Jay. So far Jay has shown little proof that he knows what he is doing as a head coach. Surely he and Bruce have not drafted well either. Not one pro bowler or a starting caliber player for that matter.

Really? We're going to judge Gruden's draft after less than a year? And complain that he didn't get a rookie pro bowler out of a draft where he didn't even have a first round pick?? Come on, man. I don't know who was ultimately responsible for the 2014 draft, but they got a starter (Breeland) in the fourth round and Trent Murphy was starting out of the second round. I think we'll probably see Spencer Long and/or Moses starting before this year as well, so I'm not really sure how much we can honestly bitch about that draft.

And how is cutting bait on Griffin a "reflection of his character"? If you're talking about honesty, then sure. It seems pretty obvious that Mike Shanahan came to some of the same conclusions about Griffin. I would much rather have Jay Gruden, an experienced football coach and former quarterback, be honest about the QB situation. If he can fix RGIII then great, please do. If Cousins or McCoy is the QB that gives us the best chance to win right now, then the head football coach needs to play that guy.

Look at Cleveland. Hoyer wasn't great, but nobody on that coaching staff believed Manziel should start ahead of him. The HC caved in to pressure from ownership to start the first round pick, and it was a complete joke. We need a coach with the "character" to do what he feels is best for the entire football team.

Cleveland did not make the playoffs. Why are we using them as an example? It dosent matter what they did it did not work. Hoyer ended up being a turnover machine and a total melt down ensued.

Both Kirk and Griffin had there issues. Griffin held on to the ball far too long and Kirk threw too many turnovers. Alfred did not have a good year either. Pointing back to our Oline.

We need our Oline fixed. Then we can evaluate our situation better.

Look a good coach should be able to see that his offensive line stinks. He would be able to see this. Im pretty sure Jay knows this. So why are we going to throw Griffin under the bus? When Kirk did not play well either? It was a bad situation jay was put in. But to pin it all on Griffin is just ridiculous.

HEROHAMO wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Gruden giving up on Griffin halfway through a season is a reflection of his character as well. 1st year head coach giving up on the franchise player halfway through the season? How does that give me confidence in Jay. So far Jay has shown little proof that he knows what he is doing as a head coach. Surely he and Bruce have not drafted well either. Not one pro bowler or a starting caliber player for that matter.

Snyder is the main reason for all this mess. We all know this.

Well you must favor Kirk over Griffin then. Thats fine. Kirk is a good Qb in my opinion. But nothing is going to change unless we have a good Oline. No QB is going to have confidence standing behind the terrible Oline that was the Redskins of 2014.

Really??? Did you see the way RGIII was playing??? His QBR was in the SINGLE DIGITS. It was embarassing to watch RGIII out there. Now --- there are a TON of reasons to question Jay's ability to coach, but pulling RGIII midway thru the year is not one of them. The very fact Jay made the change shows that he isn't concerned with Danny boy's influence as much as our ex-GM.....

And I didn't think Jay had any say in the draft. And he's been here one year --- the fact a pro-bowler hasn't been drafted in his one year here isn't surprising.....

I agree with the last statement, but IMHO even with a good line, in Jay's offense, RGIII will not thrive. He is not comfortable playing in a pro style offense and takes incredibly too long to complete his progressions. I don't think things like that (ie, sorting thru progressions) change as drastically as they need to after a season or 2 in a certain system.

Ill agree to disagree. I believe with a good Oline RG3 and Alf will thrive.

Why give up on RG3 when none of our QBs took us to the playoffs? Its not like Kirk did well either. He was a turnover machine while RG3 had very few turnovers. Colt did the best but he is seriously lacking the physical tools needed to be a top tier QB.

Our oline was terrble. Our safties stunk. Our Dline needs upgrades. Our offense suffered from the situation. So why are you guys pinning this all on RG3?

Honestly when you watched the offense last season who looked the best running Gruden's offense. Yes Cousins threw some picks....go look at other QB's and the picks they threw, also it's coachable. Another thing is if we are to believe the reports that SM is just as concerned about how a player fits in the locker room as much as he plays on the field, I don't see how trading RG is not at least on the table?? I'm from the school that leaders are born and having served 20+ years in the military I've seen the type of leader RG is....it looks forced to me. Kirk seems like the natural born leader, I will be rooting for him to win the job this year, not sure if he will blossom into a starting NFL QB, but I'd bet the house he'll have a longer career than RG.

HEROHAMO wrote:

riggofan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Gruden giving up on Griffin halfway through a season is a reflection of his character as well. 1st year head coach giving up on the franchise player halfway through the season? How does that give me confidence in Jay. So far Jay has shown little proof that he knows what he is doing as a head coach. Surely he and Bruce have not drafted well either. Not one pro bowler or a starting caliber player for that matter.

Really? We're going to judge Gruden's draft after less than a year? And complain that he didn't get a rookie pro bowler out of a draft where he didn't even have a first round pick?? Come on, man. I don't know who was ultimately responsible for the 2014 draft, but they got a starter (Breeland) in the fourth round and Trent Murphy was starting out of the second round. I think we'll probably see Spencer Long and/or Moses starting before this year as well, so I'm not really sure how much we can honestly bitch about that draft.

And how is cutting bait on Griffin a "reflection of his character"? If you're talking about honesty, then sure. It seems pretty obvious that Mike Shanahan came to some of the same conclusions about Griffin. I would much rather have Jay Gruden, an experienced football coach and former quarterback, be honest about the QB situation. If he can fix RGIII then great, please do. If Cousins or McCoy is the QB that gives us the best chance to win right now, then the head football coach needs to play that guy.

Look at Cleveland. Hoyer wasn't great, but nobody on that coaching staff believed Manziel should start ahead of him. The HC caved in to pressure from ownership to start the first round pick, and it was a complete joke. We need a coach with the "character" to do what he feels is best for the entire football team.

Cleveland did not make the playoffs. Why are we using them as an example? It dosent matter what they did it did not work. Hoyer ended up being a turnover machine and a total melt down ensued.

Both Kirk and Griffin had there issues. Griffin held on to the ball far too long and Kirk threw too many turnovers. Alfred did not have a good year either. Pointing back to our Oline.

We need our Oline fixed. Then we can evaluate our situation better.

Look a good coach should be able to see that his offensive line stinks. He would be able to see this. Im pretty sure Jay knows this. So why are we going to throw Griffin under the bus? When Kirk did not play well either? It was a bad situation jay was put in. But to pin it all on Griffin is just ridiculous.

Sorry I'm not buying the oline excuse for RG. He only attempted 10 more passes than Cousins but was sacks 25 more times...sorry that's an RG problem. Yes the argument can be made that RG took a sack while Cousin threw a pick but that doesn't tell the whole story. I think we would agree SF has a good oline yet Kap was sacked 55 times, he's another read option QB who is struggling with the position.

HEROHAMO wrote:Cleveland did not make the playoffs. Why are we using them as an example? It dosent matter what they did it did not work. Hoyer ended up being a turnover machine and a total melt down ensued.

That's not the point at all. Hoyer was still the better QB on that team as horribly sad as that is to write. Every coach on the team knew that was the case. The head coach needs to play the QB who gives them the best chance to win.

I don't find it a negative at all that Gruden hit the brakes on RGIII this year. He's getting paid to make football decisions - not marketing decisions.

HEROHAMO wrote:Ill agree to disagree. I believe with a good Oline RG3 and Alf will thrive.

Why give up on RG3 when none of our QBs took us to the playoffs? Its not like Kirk did well either. He was a turnover machine while RG3 had very few turnovers. Colt did the best but he is seriously lacking the physical tools needed to be a top tier QB.

Our oline was terrble. Our safties stunk. Our Dline needs upgrades. Our offense suffered from the situation. So why are you guys pinning this all on RG3?

First off --- My first comment was SPECIFICALLY towards why RGIII was benched. My last comment had to do with why I believe RGIII will not work in the FUTURE. I NEVER "pinned" last season to RGIII solely. Not sure how you deduced that....

And you also answered your own question as to why none of the QBs didn't take us to the playoffs in your last statement paragraph. Now why Cousins, McCoy or someone else over RGIII --- I don't look at RGIII as a default option. I don't say "well, if no one single QB killed it, we have to stay with RGIII". I considered that flawed reasoning. Each QB is different and therefore can be better than the other without winning a game.

I 100% respect your agreement to disagree, but why I like Cousins is that he was the best out of the 3 this year in all categories on a per attempt basis other than INTs. And the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games. He isn't scared to throw it downfield. He was actually able to complete his progressions --- even with a horrendous line. The fact he threw INTs, IMHO, was because he understood that he had to run through those progressions at a rapid pace. Our offense played its best football when he was QB.

If Cousins had more time -- and I mean like 1 or 2 seconds at most -- he wouldn't make those mistakes. Now, IMHO, if RGIII had 1 to 2 seconds, we wouldn't see any significant difference in his production. He takes PAINFULLY long to run throught them. You can literally see him doing it during his dropbacks --- that's how slow it is.

I am not sure what you mean by "thriving", but in order to make the playoffs, you generally need one of the best 12 QBs in the league. Last season, RGIII had the worst QBR in the NFL last season behind only Bortles. Do you think he can go from being the worst non-rookie performing QB (and by 5 QBR points, which is a good deal) to a top 12 QB with a better OL? Because honestly, we have top quality WRs, RB, decent TEs. He doesn't need much else.

I just read DEHogs comment about leadership so I'm adding on to my post. Agree that RGIII's appears forced. Always thought that and good to hear another say it. I see Cousins as someone that is, internally, EXTREMELY competitive. Similarly to Tom Brady. Brady doesn't go around puffing his chest out, but he wants to win more than I have ever seen -- but goes about it quietly; without creating posterboard material for his opponents (ie, the way it should be). He will do anything to win. I consider Cousins similar. He puts pressure on himself to win..... and IMHO, why he forced throws. He holds himself accountable. He expects more. Cousins is a leader. You can see that.

Cousins is definitely an interceptions leader - he's shown an incredible aptitude at that particular QB skill set

and this particularly grabs me ... "the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games" - this is an interesting perspective

maybe the new QB coach can help coach him up to throw a few more INTs so we'll have a better chance at winning ...

riggofan wrote: ... The head coach needs to play the QB who gives them the best chance to win. I don't find it a negative at all that Gruden hit the brakes on RGIII this year. He's getting paid to make football decisions - not marketing decisions.

I have been hard on Gruden but I'm hoping that what we saw was a HC finding out the realities of what was really going on here

let's give these guys a chance to re-make this franchise from the mess that we've all seen the past few years

I'm sure that Jay has not forgotten how to coach and I think he'll show that

these guys cannot perform miracles but I think it will be obvious, fairly quickly, that we're on the right path

SkinsJock wrote:and this particularly grabs me ... "the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games" - this is an interesting perspective

maybe the new QB coach can help coach him up to throw a few more INTs so we'll have a better chance at winning ...

I know what you mean but there is sense to be made of this.

Kirk plays a good game but the D is so horrid that even though we should probably just run offense and lose by 2 TDs, Kirk actually tries to win and ends up forcing a few.

I think a good number of his bad throws were under this kind of circumstance.

He is also a very "on schedule" kind of guy while Griff is very much the opposite.

If Kirk can accept the fact that he needs to go off schedule occasionally and avoid pressing late, he could become real good.

Fingers crossed. I see him winning the QB competition.

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:and this particularly grabs me ... "the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games" - this is an interesting perspective

maybe the new QB coach can help coach him up to throw a few more INTs so we'll have a better chance at winning ...

I know what you mean but there is sense to be made of this.

Kirk plays a good game but the D is so horrid that even though we should probably just run offense and lose by 2 TDs, Kirk actually tries to win and ends up forcing a few.

I think a good number of his bad throws were under this kind of circumstance.

He is also a very "on schedule" kind of guy while Griff is very much the opposite.

If Kirk can accept the fact that he needs to go off schedule occasionally and avoid pressing late, he could become real good.

Fingers crossed. I see him winning the QB competition.

I think 7 of Kirks Int's happened within a 30 minute span... its not like they were evenly spread out between his games, but more lumped together in 2 games. The kid had 2 bad quarters of football trying to force a win. He is actually very accurate, and protects the ball OK, but he let the situation take control a couple times and lost his composure.

So you dont need to fix inaccuracies with him, you dont need to fix his overall decision making either. You just need to help him keep composure under pressure... sonetging a lot of qbs dont get until screwing up a few times and learning from it.

WOW - I certainly hope that the guys at Redskins Park have a better idea of what's going on than these guys

markshark84 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Ill agree to disagree. I believe with a good Oline RG3 and Alf will thrive.

Why give up on RG3 when none of our QBs took us to the playoffs? Its not like Kirk did well either. He was a turnover machine while RG3 had very few turnovers. Colt did the best but he is seriously lacking the physical tools needed to be a top tier QB.

Our oline was terrble. Our safties stunk. Our Dline needs upgrades. Our offense suffered from the situation. So why are you guys pinning this all on RG3?

First off --- My first comment was SPECIFICALLY towards why RGIII was benched. My last comment had to do with why I believe RGIII will not work in the FUTURE. I NEVER "pinned" last season to RGIII solely. Not sure how you deduced that....

And you also answered your own question as to why none of the QBs didn't take us to the playoffs in your last statement paragraph. Now why Cousins, McCoy or someone else over RGIII --- I don't look at RGIII as a default option. I don't say "well, if no one single QB killed it, we have to stay with RGIII". I considered that flawed reasoning. Each QB is different and therefore can be better than the other without winning a game.

I 100% respect your agreement to disagree, but why I like Cousins is that he was the best out of the 3 this year in all categories on a per attempt basis other than INTs. And the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games. He isn't scared to throw it downfield. He was actually able to complete his progressions --- even with a horrendous line. The fact he threw INTs, IMHO, was because he understood that he had to run through those progressions at a rapid pace. Our offense played its best football when he was QB.

If Cousins had more time -- and I mean like 1 or 2 seconds at most -- he wouldn't make those mistakes. Now, IMHO, if RGIII had 1 to 2 seconds, we wouldn't see any significant difference in his production. He takes PAINFULLY long to run throught them. You can literally see him doing it during his dropbacks --- that's how slow it is.

I am not sure what you mean by "thriving", but in order to make the playoffs, you generally need one of the best 12 QBs in the league. Last season, RGIII had the worst QBR in the NFL last season behind only Bortles. Do you think he can go from being the worst non-rookie performing QB (and by 5 QBR points, which is a good deal) to a top 12 QB with a better OL? Because honestly, we have top quality WRs, RB, decent TEs. He doesn't need much else.

I just read DEHogs comment about leadership so I'm adding on to my post. Agree that RGIII's appears forced. Always thought that and good to hear another say it. I see Cousins as someone that is, internally, EXTREMELY competitive. Similarly to Tom Brady. Brady doesn't go around puffing his chest out, but he wants to win more than I have ever seen -- but goes about it quietly; without creating posterboard material for his opponents (ie, the way it should be). He will do anything to win. I consider Cousins similar. He puts pressure on himself to win..... and IMHO, why he forced throws. He holds himself accountable. He expects more. Cousins is a leader. You can see that.

Are we really trying to win arguments? I could care less. You keep on trying to pick apart any point I make. I usually dont take part in this type of nonsense.

Look you just compared Kirk to Tom Brady. Come on now? Seriously? I love Kirk but he has a ways to go before comparing him to Brady.

Look man. Your main point here is that Kirk looked better in a 3 win season!
Yet Griffin actually took us to the playoffs once! Hmmm.
All though Ill give Kirk alot of credit for helping us that season as well. But bottom line is that Griffin actually handled the pressure of a full season and took us to the next level.

Kirk had his chance but it did not happen. Thats the bottom line. You guys can argue all you want. But those are facts. When all you have are opinions.

[/quote]
Sorry I'm not buying the oline excuse for RG. He only attempted 10 more passes than Cousins but was sacks 25 more times...sorry that's an RG problem. Yes the argument can be made that RG took a sack while Cousin threw a pick but that doesn't tell the whole story. I think we would agree SF has a good oline yet Kap was sacked 55 times, he's another read option QB who is struggling with the position.[/quote]

Basically your saying Kirk looked a whole lot better in a 3 win season. Whoopty freaking doo!

Im done nitpicking which crap smelled less crappy.

Kirk had plenty of chances to take us to the playoffs? Did it happen?

Did Griffin ever take us to the playoffs?

If Kirk wins the job and takes us to the playoffs Ill be on board. Until then...

You cant use what Griffin did in the past to decide his future. Thats like saying we should pick up Sanchez in FA because he has a ciuple AFC championship games he has made it to.

Let them play it out in camp, and let the best man win.

SkinsJock wrote:and this particularly grabs me ... "the reason for the INTs is that he was actually trying to win games" - this is an interesting perspective

maybe the new QB coach can help coach him up to throw a few more INTs so we'll have a better chance at winning ...

Yes, and even with all his trying, he has won exactly one start.

HEROHAMO wrote:Basically your saying Kirk looked a whole lot better in a 3 win season. Whoopty freaking doo!

Im done nitpicking which crap smelled less crappy.

Kirk had plenty of chances to take us to the playoffs? Did it happen?

Did Griffin ever take us to the playoffs?

If Kirk wins the job and takes us to the playoffs Ill be on board. Until then...

When has Kirk been given ONE chance to take us to the playoffs?? He's only gotten a chance to start when RG was injured. Many beleive Kirk out played and won the starting job last year but RG was still named the starter.
The only real question I have for you is what do you see in RG that makes you think he can perform like he did in 2012...becuase you keep using that season for you argument??

DEHog wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Basically your saying Kirk looked a whole lot better in a 3 win season. Whoopty freaking doo!

Im done nitpicking which crap smelled less crappy.

Kirk had plenty of chances to take us to the playoffs? Did it happen?

Did Griffin ever take us to the playoffs?

If Kirk wins the job and takes us to the playoffs Ill be on board. Until then...

When has Kirk been given ONE chance to take us to the playoffs?? He's only gotten a chance to start when RG was injured. Many beleive Kirk out played and won the starting job last year but RG was still named the starter.
The only real question I have for you is what do you see in RG that makes you think he can perform like he did in 2012...becuase you keep using that season for you argument??

You need to check your memory. Kirk started the final three games last season, when RGIII was benched (not injured), and certainly didn't outplay anybody (we lost all three games). You might be confusing that with him outplaying RGIII in the pre-season this year, but even that is debatable.

Deadskins wrote:

DEHog wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Basically your saying Kirk looked a whole lot better in a 3 win season. Whoopty freaking doo!

Im done nitpicking which crap smelled less crappy.

Kirk had plenty of chances to take us to the playoffs? Did it happen?

Did Griffin ever take us to the playoffs?

If Kirk wins the job and takes us to the playoffs Ill be on board. Until then...

When has Kirk been given ONE chance to take us to the playoffs?? He's only gotten a chance to start when RG was injured. Many beleive Kirk out played and won the starting job last year but RG was still named the starter.
The only real question I have for you is what do you see in RG that makes you think he can perform like he did in 2012...becuase you keep using that season for you argument??

You need to check your memory. Kirk started the final three games last season, when RGIII was benched (not injured), and certainly didn't outplay anybody (we lost all three games). You might be confusing that with him outplaying RGIII in the pre-season this year, but even that is debatable.

In which Shanahan stated it was for health reason...no one thought RG was healthy...Any way would you classifiy that as a chance to "take us to the playoffs"? Which is what the post was about.
No I'm not confused...Kirk started the last three games in 2013...last year was 2014 this year hasn't happened yet...