The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Of The River wrote:Looking forward to this draft with more optimism,now that Scot is at the helm.

If he is capable of doing what he did in SF and Seattle, then 4 of these guys will be in the pro bowl over the next few years.

Prowl33 wrote:

Of The River wrote:Looking forward to this draft with more optimism,now that Scot is at the helm.

If he is capable of doing what he did in SF and Seattle, then 4 of these guys will be in the pro bowl over the next few years.

Yeah i agree with you on that.
Its going to be interesting if he addresses our O line as his priority or looks elsewhere.

so ... with all these future pro bowl guys being added to the roster each year ...

what's your guess for how long it will take to be a playoff contender?

and do you think that Jay Gruden will be the guy that Scot wants as HC or does Dan Snyder get 'involved' with running this again ..

SkinsJock wrote:so ... with all these future pro bowl guys being added to the roster each year ...

what's your guess for how long it will take to be a playoff contender?

and do you think that Jay Gruden will be the guy that Scot wants as HC or does Dan Snyder get 'involved' with running this again ..

As long as it takes to get playoff quality play from a QB. My guess is 3 years away from playoffs, but then a nice run of years in the better half of the league.

I like Jay, but I'm only 50/50 on him being here when the team is good again. His free year is up for me, now it's his team and it's on him next time I see them. I'm not sold on the Barry hire at all, but I would love to be wrong.

I think Scot will take a good look at the way Gruden runs a team over this next 12 months and decide if he can win with him coaching or not. Nothing would surprise me anymore when it comes to the owner's involvement.

I find it amazing that folks are down on Gruden after one year. Did anyone, or does anyone, believe we have the talent to succeed in the league? Hard to compete when you have tons of injuries to your better players and your other players aren't that good.

When you sign a coach up for 5 years, and the team stinks, you must give the guy better players and at least 3 years, maybe 4 depending on circumstances. Let's be clear, Mike did not leave the cupboard full! I also believe the cap hit was still impacting the players we had and their contracts. I do believe we're finally out from under that bogus BS.

Also, you must allow a coach to pick coaches who he believes fit what he wants...I know a lot of folks wanted Wade Phillips, maybe his age was something Jay didn't feel fit what he wanted. Also, has anyone else hired Wade? I'm thinking Fangio never wanted the Skins DC job (why would he, we have little talent) and he did due diligence to get more cash from the Bears. The Barry pick makes me think Danny isn't involved, isn't that what we all want??

Give this time. I know we've been stinking for a long time but hopefully now we have the right pieces in place at the top. Gotta believe, right?

fredp45 wrote:I find it amazing that folks are down on Gruden after one year. Did anyone, or does anyone, believe we have the talent to succeed in the league? Hard to compete when you have tons of injuries to your better players and your other players aren't that good.

When you sign a coach up for 5 years, and the team stinks, you must give the guy better players and at least 3 years, maybe 4 depending on circumstances. Let's be clear, Mike did not leave the cupboard full! I also believe the cap hit was still impacting the players we had and their contracts. I do believe we're finally out from under that bogus BS.

Also, you must allow a coach to pick coaches who he believes fit what he wants...I know a lot of folks wanted Wade Phillips, maybe his age was something Jay didn't feel fit what he wanted. Also, has anyone else hired Wade? I'm thinking Fangio never wanted the Skins DC job (why would he, we have little talent) and he did due diligence to get more cash from the Bears. The Barry pick makes me think Danny isn't involved, isn't that what we all want??

Give this time. I know we've been stinking for a long time but hopefully now we have the right pieces in place at the top. Gotta believe, right?

I'm very confident with the people at the top right now. Owner/President/GM...they are all very qualified and I trust they will all do a good job IF the owner (and fans because the owner is influenced by them) gives them time to build this. I'm less confident with the coaches. Time will tell, but it's probably a 3-5 year timetable for a playoff hunt unfortunately. A winning record in two years hopefully.

fredp45 wrote:I find it amazing that folks are down on Gruden after one year. Did anyone, or does anyone, believe we have the talent to succeed in the league? Hard to compete when you have tons of injuries to your better players and your other players aren't that good.

Normally I would be quick to agree with you on this, but I'm not completely amazed that anybody is down on Gruden at this point. I actually like Gruden, but what would you say he did especially well last year? I don't think there was much done to give fans confidence.

Talent issues aside, I still think it was fair to expect the team to be a little better than 2013. New coach, healthy RGIII, no salary cap penalty, etc; I don't think we played noticeably better than in 2013.

My biggest frustration with Gruden and 2013 is that it feels like a wasted year. I'm willing to be patient and understand its going to take some time to turn this thing around. I just don't see that much to build on from last year, especially because of the QB mess and what looks to be a 2014 draft that was mediocre at best. That probably has more to do with Allen than Gruden, but its still frustrating.

riggofan wrote:

fredp45 wrote:I find it amazing that folks are down on Gruden after one year. Did anyone, or does anyone, believe we have the talent to succeed in the league? Hard to compete when you have tons of injuries to your better players and your other players aren't that good.

Normally I would be quick to agree with you on this, but I'm not completely amazed that anybody is down on Gruden at this point. I actually like Gruden, but what would you say he did especially well last year? I don't think there was much done to give fans confidence.

Talent issues aside, I still think it was fair to expect the team to be a little better than 2013. New coach, healthy RGIII, no salary cap penalty, etc; I don't think we played noticeably better than in 2013.

My biggest frustration with Gruden and 2013 is that it feels like a wasted year. I'm willing to be patient and understand its going to take some time to turn this thing around. I just don't see that much to build on from last year, especially because of the QB mess and what looks to be a 2014 draft that was mediocre at best. That probably has more to do with Allen than Gruden, but its still frustrating.

I get what you are saying... But, my take is that an awful lot of what Gruden was doing was simply "setting the table". While he had two quarterbacks who "theoretically" match up to his offensive concepts, neither was able to demonstrate effectiveness beyond a game or two. His third quarterback, while incredibly talented, proved unable to master the technique nor the cerebral challenges thrown at him. You could see that he was trying to do some of the things needed, but he still has a huge hill to climb.

Gruden also knew that his o-line was not competent, and that his defense was missing critical components, including coaching. That all severely limited his options... So, he experimented... He was not hesitant to pull the trigger on depth chart changes... It was so quick that I am left to think that he had anticipated these problems from the start, and was simply executing planned contingencies.

If that's the case, I think we may actually see some positive results coming up.

You really need to look at the process of a head coach joining a new team, especially a 1st time head coach.

First you know he watched A LOT of film to get to know his team before he even met them. He knew how bad it was despite him saying positive things publically. No coach will go on record saying this team sucks and im going to have to replace almost everyone..

Then, as a first time head coach with Bruce Allen that knows nothing about football, how did you expect the draft to go? Being a good head coach and finding good college talent are 2 very different things. Now we got Scot to handle that.

Give the man by end of season 3. If he hasnt done what yoyou expected.... then call for his head.

Countertrey wrote:I get what you are saying... But, my take is that an awful lot of what Gruden was doing was simply "setting the table". While he had two quarterbacks who "theoretically" match up to his offensive concepts, neither was able to demonstrate effectiveness beyond a game or two. His third quarterback, while incredibly talented, proved unable to master the technique nor the cerebral challenges thrown at him. You could see that he was trying to do some of the things needed, but he still has a huge hill to climb.

Yeah I'm going to stay optimistic.

Countertrey wrote:Gruden also knew that his o-line was not competent, and that his defense was missing critical components, including coaching. That all severely limited his options... So, he experimented... He was not hesitant to pull the trigger on depth chart changes... It was so quick that I am left to think that he had anticipated these problems from the start, and was simply executing planned contingencies.

I think that's a great point about the offensive line. I've seen that Gruden had success with the Bengals and their big offensive line, then comes here to one of the smallest lines in the league. Not surprising that he's not completely running "his" offense yet. Keeping my fingers crossed that they can bring in some players to help the line this year.

Prowl33 wrote:First you know he watched A LOT of film to get to know his team before he even met them. He knew how bad it was despite him saying positive things publically. No coach will go on record saying this team sucks and im going to have to replace almost everyone..

True, but do you think maybe he blew it with his preseason assessment of RGIII? Its hard to know for sure. And no doubt there was front office politics involved too.

Prowl33 wrote:Then, as a first time head coach with Bruce Allen that knows nothing about football, how did you expect the draft to go? Being a good head coach and finding good college talent are 2 very different things. Now we got Scot to handle that.

That's a fair point. We'll see how that draft shakes out, but if we somehow missed on TWO offensive linemen in the third round that would be a big waste.

Prowl33 wrote:Give the man by end of season 3. If he hasnt done what yoyou expected.... then call for his head.

Yeah I have no problem with that. Like I said, I actually like Gruden and want to see him be successful here. I'd really like to see what he can do with a competitive group of players. Up to now we've probably been looking for a miracle worker more than a head coach.

chiefhog44 wrote:

fredp45 wrote:I find it amazing that folks are down on Gruden after one year. Did anyone, or does anyone, believe we have the talent to succeed in the league? Hard to compete when you have tons of injuries to your better players and your other players aren't that good.

When you sign a coach up for 5 years, and the team stinks, you must give the guy better players and at least 3 years, maybe 4 depending on circumstances. Let's be clear, Mike did not leave the cupboard full! I also believe the cap hit was still impacting the players we had and their contracts. I do believe we're finally out from under that bogus BS.

Also, you must allow a coach to pick coaches who he believes fit what he wants...I know a lot of folks wanted Wade Phillips, maybe his age was something Jay didn't feel fit what he wanted. Also, has anyone else hired Wade? I'm thinking Fangio never wanted the Skins DC job (why would he, we have little talent) and he did due diligence to get more cash from the Bears. The Barry pick makes me think Danny isn't involved, isn't that what we all want??

Give this time. I know we've been stinking for a long time but hopefully now we have the right pieces in place at the top. Gotta believe, right?

I'm very confident with the people at the top right now. Owner/President/GM...they are all very qualified and I trust they will all do a good job IF the owner (and fans because the owner is influenced by them) gives them time to build this. I'm less confident with the coaches. Time will tell, but it's probably a 3-5 year timetable for a playoff hunt unfortunately. A winning record in two years hopefully.

I have personally felt this team is even worse shape than their record indicated. It will take time to rebuild.... more than even I originally thought. Snyder has destroyed the frachise again and again. I am hoping he allows Scot to do his job without getting his bitchy little face in the way. I also hope he has patience to allow Scot to actually build something without getting antsy and destroying something in its infancy. Snyder is an impatient man --- one of his many, many, many, many character flaws.

Pro football focus just came out with a "missing pieces" analysis for each team. Expectedly, the skins are second to last. It exposes all the things Danny boy has historically done wrong. From the lack of draft picks to the "worst value" 32 year old FA acquisition Jason Hatcher. I only disagree with some player ratings, but that IMHO is a by product of the QB and poor supporting player situation.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12179331/how-many-players-away-super-bowl-team

Needless to say, this FO has a LONG, UPHILL battle. In order to get to playoff calibur, we need 3 consecutive incredible drafts which includes finding a QB....... So we basically a miracle, even for Scot --- even he is know to have off years.

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14635/rating-scot-mccloughans-drafts-2008

McCloughan quote of the day.

“I guarantee you every time we make a pick, one through seven rounds, there will be a player on that board that ends up being a good NFL football player from the standpoint of a starter, a quality backup, or a dangerous special teams player,” McCloughan said. “You can identify that, and a lot of that comes from sitting around here and getting to know these guys.”

Love the way he thinks, and he is 100% right. Every single round there are a few impact players available.... now we have someone who is among the best at picking them out. Only a matter of time before you get enough of them to make a difference on the field.

riggofan wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:First you know he watched A LOT of film to get to know his team before he even met them. He knew how bad it was despite him saying positive things publically. No coach will go on record saying this team sucks and im going to have to replace almost everyone..

True, but do you think maybe he blew it with his preseason assessment of RGIII? Its hard to know for sure. And no doubt there was front office politics involved too.

I don't think he blew it, but we will never know because of the ankle dislocation. I think that injury totally ruined RGIII's mental process as far as coming back from the ACL tear is concerned. Maybe another off-season will let him regain his confidence. Hopefully, Scot can get some linemen in here, and we can start giving the QBs a little more time and grow their confidence that they don't have to get the ball out within two seconds on every play.