The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I can't believe Robert threw that int in the redzone!
Why he gave up two 4 th down conversions is beyond me aswell.. what a jerk!

I hate to admit it cowboykillerzRGiii but Cousins does get rid of the ball quicker. I was expecting the same results. He (Cousins) still needs to learn a lot just like Robert. He did get the ball off quickly though. Like you I also still believe Robert is our future.

Kilmer72 wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I can't believe Robert threw that int in the redzone!
Why he gave up two 4 th down conversions is beyond me aswell.. what a jerk!

I hate to admit it cowboykillerzRGiii but Cousins does get rid of the ball quicker. I was expecting the same results. He (Cousins) still needs to learn a lot just like Robert. He did get the ball off quickly though. Like you I also still believe Robert is our future.

Sure they both have room to.improve and work on their game like everyone. Roberts feet would've caused havoc today.
Cousins ki.da lost his poise on the last drive. Robert doesn't win them all but he has that exp I guess. At Baylor he led many come backs, some impossible looking ones at that.
We will see who makes the most appropriate progress this off-season, I just don't think rgiii played as bad as some think. Is it a surprise that Garçon was Cousins only real target? We need help at wide out and oline, and that'd benefit both qbs. People got to high on cousins last week.. surprise surprise our st still suck.. we have the same weakness we had with Robert.. I swear w give up more 4th down conversions than anyone ever.. teams don't even fear going for it Smmfh.. I hate that we lost... This joke of a staff didn't deserve it tho. If mike stays I hope he cleans house w the only exception being Kyle but under leash.

I thought Cousins had another good day today. After seeing Cousins two weeks in a row I definitely think Cousins is now and will always be a much better NFL quarterback than Griffin. To be really fair to the Griffin fans here it comes down to a choice style and skill set for me, I think an NFL quarterback needs to be good pocket passer because it is essential for sustained NFL success. Even after just 3 starts Cousins looks like the Redskins quarterback whereas Griffin looks the new arrival to the NFL. The team can open up a real NFL playbook when Cousins plays. Griffin looks seriously flawed to on the field in comparison and Cousins dwarfs him off the field.

OldSchool wrote:I thought Cousins had another good day today. After seeing Cousins two weeks in a row I definitely think Cousins is now and will always be a much better NFL quarterback than Griffin. To be really fair to the Griffin fans here it comes down to a choice style and skill set for me, I think an NFL quarterback needs to be good pocket passer because it is essential for sustained NFL success. Even after just 3 starts Cousins looks like the Redskins quarterback whereas Griffin looks the new arrival to the NFL. The team can open up a real NFL playbook when Cousins plays. Griffin looks seriously flawed to on the field in comparison and Cousins dwarfs him off the field.

I'm certainly not under the illusion that Griffin is currently a better NFL quarterback than Kirk... however, I absolutely believe that a Bob Griffin with full pocket competence would be the most dangerous NFL Quarterback in this decade. I know that he is intelligent enough to learn to work progressions, read defenses, set blocking assignments, and audible to a more opportune play...

I believe that Bob WILL develop into that quarterback. Imagine Cousins with Griffins athleticism, escapability, and arm strength...

I also believe that many of Bob's struggles this year are due to his effort to actually learn pocket skills while under fire, under the protection of an incompetent O-line. That O-line will not be the same next year... and Bob will have learned much over the off season. He will be the starter next season. He will still have much to learn... but he will be a much better quarterback.

OldSchool wrote:I thought Cousins had another good day today. After seeing Cousins two weeks in a row I definitely think Cousins is now and will always be a much better NFL quarterback than Griffin. To be really fair to the Griffin fans here it comes down to a choice style and skill set for me, I think an NFL quarterback needs to be good pocket passer because it is essential for sustained NFL success. Even after just 3 starts Cousins looks like the Redskins quarterback whereas Griffin looks the new arrival to the NFL. The team can open up a real NFL playbook when Cousins plays. Griffin looks seriously flawed to on the field in comparison and Cousins dwarfs him off the field.

If we are going by starts only then I guess last year didn't count. Robert was rookie of the year. He won many games for us. Ok that doesn't count. Lets count the wins Cousins has for us this year then. Then lets count the wins Robert has for us. What a dilemma.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:For people that blame this season on rg you will never be happy... Cousins wont be good enough every game either. Take a look at stats. Rg3 has more yards then last year w 3 less games and is middle of the pack or better. He led our O to #6 overall.... He is not the reason our d, st, coaching, Oline,p and wide outs suck... But cousins will be the reason they all play better huh?

I'm not blaming RG3 for anything (the entire team was plenty bad enough to spread the blame), I'm just saying that simply because RG3 is seen as the franchise player shouldn't automatically mean he's always going to be the starter....EVERY position on EVERY NFL team should be subject to change based on player performance...Robert's play this year, while certainly not all his fault by any means, was not up to the standard of what one might expect from him...if I were Shanny I probably would've pulled him several weeks sooner....franchise player or not, if you're not playin you're not playin...

grampi wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

grampi wrote:I think there are going to be a lot of surprised people if the Skins win their last 2 games of the season, and Cousins has 2 more games like his last...THAT won't be ignored....can you say QB controversy?

Rgiii played lights out vs the giants, and I expect cousins to aswell... He will need a team effort (not the drops rgiii had vs ny or the terrible D he had) to win both games. I hope we do win out, but that doesn't change a thing. It's funny how all the h@ters blame so.much on rgiii when his stats are right.there with all the other top ten qbs in the league. There will be no controversy what so ever. Rgiii is the doode. Nuff said.
O and this thread sucks
Beat dallas!

This notion that RG3 is "the man" no matter what could be detrimental to the team...as far as I'm concerned EVERY position should always be open to being filled by the player that plays the best...I don't care if RG3 is the franchise player, if Cousins plays better, then the job should be his...RG3 may never be able to play like he did in his first season...how many seasons should be sacrificed to find out?...this season was sacrificed only to find out RG3 wasn't going to be able to get back into his groove...I doubt if most Redskins fans would be willing to sacrifice the next 2 or 3 seasons to find out if RG3 is truly "the man"....

I would hope at least a couple. As many draft picks that were spent. Unless it is just plain obvious that he can't play anymore. Until that happens he should be given every chance to succeed. You should look at last year and then this year and then next year. Then decide.

Cousins is being compared to a "future" Robert Griffin with a strong pocket passing game? Does that really make sense to you?

Griffin acquiring a strong pocket passing game isn't like buying a set of golf clubs or something else that someone can just have with a little effort. How much pocket passer aptitude did Griffin show us this year? None, I would be more optimistic about Griffin's potential if he shown some progress on the mental part of the game but after two seasons he still can't change protection. Don't tell me he was too busy with rehabbing his leg for regular film study and chalk talk with the coaches, Rex or Cousins because I'm not buying it.

Given his injury I can overlook Griffin's accuracy problems this season but it doesn't look like he has put in the time to begin learning the metal aspects of his job. He's suppose to be a smart guy why hasn't he learned more of this stuff by now? I'm an old guy who has seen a lot of exciting college dual threat quarterbacks that were expected to learn the pocket and fail, I don't see this Griffin high ceiling.

OldSchool wrote:Cousins is being compared to a "future" Robert Griffin with a strong pocket passing game? Does that really make sense to you?

Griffin acquiring a strong pocket passing game isn't like buying a set of golf clubs or something else that someone can just have with a little effort. How much pocket passer aptitude did Griffin show us this year? None, I would be more optimistic about Griffin's potential if he shown some progress on the mental part of the game but after two seasons he still can't change protection. Don't tell me he was too busy with rehabbing his leg for regular film study and chalk talk with the coaches, Rex or Cousins because I'm not buying it.

Given his injury I can overlook Griffin's accuracy problems this season but it doesn't look like he has put in the time to begin learning the metal aspects of his job. He's suppose to be a smart guy why hasn't he learned more of this stuff by now? I'm an old guy who has seen a lot of exciting college dual threat quarterbacks that were expected to learn the pocket and fail, I don't see this Griffin high ceiling.

How many times must people point out that Cousins has more experience with the pro offense and how many times must people point out the obvious that Robert is a more gifted athlete? You admit you can over look Roberts accuracy problems this year but yet he is too stupid to catch up to Cousins? Come on.

OldSchool wrote:Cousins is being compared to a "future" Robert Griffin with a strong pocket passing game? Does that really make sense to you?

Griffin acquiring a strong pocket passing game isn't like buying a set of golf clubs or something else that someone can just have with a little effort. How much pocket passer aptitude did Griffin show us this year? None, I would be more optimistic about Griffin's potential if he shown some progress on the mental part of the game but after two seasons he still can't change protection. Don't tell me he was too busy with rehabbing his leg for regular film study and chalk talk with the coaches, Rex or Cousins because I'm not buying it.

Given his injury I can overlook Griffin's accuracy problems this season but it doesn't look like he has put in the time to begin learning the metal aspects of his job. He's suppose to be a smart guy why hasn't he learned more of this stuff by now? I'm an old guy who has seen a lot of exciting college dual threat quarterbacks that were expected to learn the pocket and fail, I don't see this Griffin high ceiling.

You unaware that Griffin completed his eligibility by earning a Master's degree? This isn't your West Virginia style player where everyone has to cover his lack of academic acumen. This is a smart young man, who knows his weaknesses, and who worked hard to overcome them in live play. With some structured work in TC (the stuff you can't do on film), you will see significant improvement... just like Carolina did with a certain Newton... next season... the difference? Our player is smarter.

Kilmer72 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Cousins is being compared to a "future" Robert Griffin with a strong pocket passing game? Does that really make sense to you?

Griffin acquiring a strong pocket passing game isn't like buying a set of golf clubs or something else that someone can just have with a little effort. How much pocket passer aptitude did Griffin show us this year? None, I would be more optimistic about Griffin's potential if he shown some progress on the mental part of the game but after two seasons he still can't change protection. Don't tell me he was too busy with rehabbing his leg for regular film study and chalk talk with the coaches, Rex or Cousins because I'm not buying it.

Given his injury I can overlook Griffin's accuracy problems this season but it doesn't look like he has put in the time to begin learning the metal aspects of his job. He's suppose to be a smart guy why hasn't he learned more of this stuff by now? I'm an old guy who has seen a lot of exciting college dual threat quarterbacks that were expected to learn the pocket and fail, I don't see this Griffin high ceiling.

How many times must people point out that Cousins has more experience with the pro offense and how many times must people point out the obvious that Robert is a more gifted athlete? You admit you can over look Roberts accuracy problems this year but yet he is too stupid to catch up to Cousins? Come on.

I didn't say Griffin was stupid you used that word. What I did say was after two seasons Griffin hasn't learned enough to shift the protection on his own. Why not? We are told he has an incredible work ethic and it is an accepted article of faith in this forum but yet he still doesn't read a defense will enough for the team to rely on him to shift the protection.

I didn't bring up Cousin's experience in a pro offense you did, so let's compare experience in the system.
Griffin got the starters practice reps prior to his first while Cousins competed with Grossman to make the team by earning a back-up role. Griffin got 15 starts and all the starter practice reps during the regular season except for the week before the Cleveland game. This season Cousins get the preseason starter reps until he was injured in the Pittsburgh preseason game.

This year Griffin got all the starters reps and starts until after 10 defeats in 13 games Shanny mercifully benched the hapless Griffin who did not understand the game well enough to adjust protections and rapidly and correctly go through his progressions while maneuvering with the pocket. The befuddled and gimpy Griffin was sack bait all year and the Skins are lucky he didn't get hurt during his 38 sacks and countless knock downs.

Let's get this straight Griffin is the experienced one with 29 starts and all the starters prep reps prior to those starts. Griffin is the one that team showered all the time and coaching attention on and yet he hasn't learned to perform the basic responsibilities of the position. Playing backyard style football like he did in 2012 isn't a 19 or 20 game strategy as we all were reminded last season.

Griffin hasn't begun to become a literate quarterback, able to read defenses, after two seasons and he is reminds me of one of the 7 foot skinny guys that weak college programs give a scholarship to solely because the kid is 7 feet tall hoping they can put some weight on him and teach him how to play.

dftt

Countertrey wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Cousins is being compared to a "future" Robert Griffin with a strong pocket passing game? Does that really make sense to you?

Griffin acquiring a strong pocket passing game isn't like buying a set of golf clubs or something else that someone can just have with a little effort. How much pocket passer aptitude did Griffin show us this year? None, I would be more optimistic about Griffin's potential if he shown some progress on the mental part of the game but after two seasons he still can't change protection. Don't tell me he was too busy with rehabbing his leg for regular film study and chalk talk with the coaches, Rex or Cousins because I'm not buying it.

Given his injury I can overlook Griffin's accuracy problems this season but it doesn't look like he has put in the time to begin learning the metal aspects of his job. He's suppose to be a smart guy why hasn't he learned more of this stuff by now? I'm an old guy who has seen a lot of exciting college dual threat quarterbacks that were expected to learn the pocket and fail, I don't see this Griffin high ceiling.

You unaware that Griffin completed his eligibility by earning a Master's degree? This isn't your West Virginia style player where everyone has to cover his lack of academic acumen. This is a smart young man, who knows his weaknesses, and who worked hard to overcome them in live play. With some structured work in TC (the stuff you can't do on film), you will see significant improvement... just like Carolina did with a certain Newton... next season... the difference? Our player is smarter.

Because Griffin is so book smart, my hope is that he will learn to read defenses like Manning. That with that strong pocket awareness and accuracy would devastate the opposition.

Cousins is okay but he is really no better than Rex Grossman right now. What you have is a fanbase that are so desperate for excellence that any new guy come in we have HOPE that they are the next Montana and we initially hype them up.

I seen the same hype and hope for Frerotte and Campbell through the years and the same people eventually turned on them. What your seeing from Cousins in the small amount of starts hes had (3) is just Cleveland (good), Falcons (okay), and today (okay).

Open your eyes people. The goal is the superbowl...you gotta have a qb that your team feel can take you there firstoff, before they make the ultimate sacrifices, in the offseason and on game day. Kirk is not that guy.

Let's assume Griffin is very bright. Why hasn't he learn to read defenses well enough to make the protection shifts?

A lot less coaching time gets invested in Cousins but he knows how why not Griffin? Don't tell me it's because Cousins learned how to in college because NFL defenses are more sophisticated than what Cousins saw in college plus I doubt the blocking schemes MSU used were as sophisticated as the Skins.

If it isn't intelligence and we all assume Griffin is bright why hasn't he learned how to do this like Cousins? Do you think was bad coaching? Cousins had the same coach and less reps so I don't poor coaching could explain it. Just not enough time in the system for Robert? Cousins came to Washington at the same time as Griffin so it can't be time. I am running out of possible explanations but I do have one more, let's see if it fits. Cousins came to town highly motivated to learn and grateful for the help he got and busted his butt to learn and be ready. Griffin thought he was the anointed one and he was going to revolutionize the game and the game would forced to adjust to him. He basked in the glory and didn't put in the work.

OldSchool wrote:Let's assume Griffin is very bright. Why hasn't he learn to read defenses well enough to make the protection shifts?

A lot less coaching time gets invested in Cousins but he knows how why not Griffin? Don't tell me it's because Cousins learned how to in college because NFL defenses are more sophisticated than what Cousins saw in college plus I doubt the blocking schemes MSU used were as sophisticated as the Skins.

If it isn't intelligence and we all assume Griffin is bright why hasn't he learned how to do this like Cousins? Do you think was bad coaching? Cousins had the same coach and less reps so I don't poor coaching could explain it. Just not enough time in the system for Robert? Cousins came to Washington at the same time as Griffin so it can't be time. I am running out of possible explanations but I do have one more, let's see if it fits. Cousins came to town highly motivated to learn and grateful for the help he got and busted his butt to learn and be ready. Griffin thought he was the anointed one and he was going to revolutionize the game and the game would forced to adjust to him. He basked in the glory and didn't put in the work.

He has NEVER been asked to do the thinks a pocket passer must do... it ALL has to be learned. Cousins has at least 10 years of training, 10 preseasons, to learn how to read defenses, set protection, recognize patterns. Asking him to adjust to the pros was just that... and adjustment. The game has already slowed down for him, and he runs through his progressions pretty much automatically. Griffin has NEVER been asked to do those things until THIS YEAR... and had NO on field time at half speed to begin the process. NONE. It's all been full speed with bad intent. Where Cousins gets to simply add on to his body of knowledge, and get to a point of automatically do things, Bob is still having to deliberately think this through. Kind of like having to repeatedly explain this point to a fan. It's tedious, and takes longer... and gives the pass rush a bonus two seconds to find the way through.

I don't get the Cousins bashing all of a sudden. His stats may have looked "okay" in yesterday's game, but he gave the Redskins the chance to win that game. The defense lost it for us. Same against the Falcons. He put us in the position to win that game, going for 2 screwed it for us.

There is simply not enough data to say Cousins better. Not yet.

Kirk was inaccurate yesterday. He left points out there.

Griff's biggest problem this year was being thrown back in unprepared - both physically and mentally. The 3 game serving of humble pie and a real off season will do wonders for him if he takes it like the man I think he is and grows up.

I don't want to hear so much from him this off season. No brag - just fact, please, Griff.

Eat Playbook. Eat reps. Eat fresh.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't get the Cousins bashing all of a sudden. His stats may have looked "okay" in yesterday's game, but he gave the Redskins the chance to win that game. The defense lost it for us. Same against the Falcons. He put us in the position to win that game, going for 2 screwed it for us.

Who is bashing Cousins? BTW the ST lost that game for us again. I still can't figure out why they punt to any returner knowing that our coverage teams suck. Punt out of bounds. Is there some new rule they can't punt out of bounds? Good grief. Defense really wasn't that bad yesterday. Cowpies offense is potent.

I will say this. Doc Walker was saying Cousins left a lot of things on the field. I can't blame Cousins though. He was getting that ball out quick. If not he would have been on the ground.

StorminMormon86 wrote:You must also factor in the fact that Cousins did not take any snaps with the starters for the majority of the season leading up to his first two starts. His numbers in both games are very impressive based off of the limited time he had to practice with the #1's.

I'm sure that is true, but how about the fact that Cousins got an entire offseason program which RGIII did not?

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:You must also factor in the fact that Cousins did not take any snaps with the starters for the majority of the season leading up to his first two starts. His numbers in both games are very impressive based off of the limited time he had to practice with the #1's.

I'm sure that is true, but how about the fact that Cousins got an entire offseason program which RGIII did not?

Only Cousins should get the benefit of the doubt apparently. If there isn't a QB controversy then it wont be as exciting.

Cousins might get a little better as a QB

Griffin will get a lot better

we have some work to do but Cousins is ONLY here if Robert does not make the progress he should get from putting in a lot of work the next few months

StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't get the Cousins bashing all of a sudden. His stats may have looked "okay" in yesterday's game, but he gave the Redskins the chance to win that game. The defense lost it for us. Same against the Falcons. He put us in the position to win that game, going for 2 screwed it for us.

I'm not bashing Cousins, but come on. He was 2 of 8 for 18 yards in the 4th quarter. How exactly did that give us a chance to win the game yesterday? He (and by he I mean the team) totally sucked in the red zone in the first half. They came away with two FGs and an INT. If anything kept us in the game yesterday it was two turnovers from the Cowboys.

And seriously, I thought Kirk hung in pretty well for the most part in the game. I just think he is dealing with the same issues with the WRs and offensive line that RGIII has had to deal with all season.

riggofan wrote:I'm not bashing Cousins, but come on. He was 2 of 8 for 18 yards in the 4th quarter. How exactly did that give us a chance to win the game yesterday? He (and by he I mean the team) totally sucked in the red zone in the first half. They came away with two FGs and an INT. If anything kept us in the game yesterday it was two turnovers from the Cowboys.

And seriously, I thought Kirk hung in pretty well for the most part in the game. I just think he is dealing with the same issues with the WRs and offensive line that RGIII has had to deal with all season.

Wasn't referring to anyone on this board, but I've been reading on other message boards/articles and hearing on the radio how much he sucked. We were winning by 9 points in the 4th quarter...that's a decent sized lead with only 15 minutes left. The defense blew it. And we would have had a TD in the first half if not for that stupid shift penalty.

Cousins is a good QB and the loss is not on him - we actually played pretty well and had some bad calls and typical bad special teams

Cousins got rid of the ball quickly - he's better than Griffin at that right now

cannot wait to see Robert's play after a full off season to prepare and having to deal with being benched - he certainly is looking very supportive of Cousins

I understand some fans thinking that Cousins is a better QB - what is not right is those same fans not seeing that Robert has the talent to be better and just needs to get there

A couple of good games from Cousins and that's what you get ...

Robert's not playing QB the way that Mike and Kyle want him to ... when he does, watch out


as badly as Robert played this season - Garcon still set a new Redskins record