The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I totally agree crazyhorse, because i think robert is gonna be THAT good. But luck would still be great for this franchise

crazyhorse1 wrote:

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Rgiii pro day right? Why else go.there lol

I'll be disappointed if we have to settle for Luck (That's a statement I never thought I'd make.)

crazyhorse1 wrote:

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Rgiii pro day right? Why else go.there lol

I'll be disappointed if we have to settle for Luck (That's a statement I never thought I'd make.)

Insanity. As good as RGIII is, Luck is the top player in this draft. Luck has been compared to Elway, and you'd be disappointed? Smh

not so fast Canes - Andrew Luck looks like he will be ready to play sooner ...... maybe

I'm one of many here that would prefer to get RG3
not because of what he offers this season which is a considerable upgrade at QB but also because RG3 looks like being a more dynamic QB

Both are looking like future greats but RG3 offers a more exciting player



I'd love to get Andrew Luck but this franchise will do better LONG TERM with RG3 as the QB

crazyhorse1 wrote:

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Rgiii pro day right? Why else go.there lol

I'll be disappointed if we have to settle for Luck (That's a statement I never thought I'd make.)

Me too. Perfect word.

I saw where Josh Johnson had 48 TDs and 1 INT as a senior. Also, he is much more RGIII-esque than Rex.

DarthMonk

CanesSkins26 wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

cowboykillerzRED wrote:Rgiii pro day right? Why else go.there lol

I'll be disappointed if we have to settle for Luck (That's a statement I never thought I'd make.)

Insanity. As good as RGIII is, Luck is the top player in this draft. Luck has been compared to Elway, and you'd be disappointed? Smh

I think you and I might be the only people left on THN who think Luck is the better player to pick.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Insanity. As good as RGIII is, Luck is the top player in this draft. Luck has been compared to Elway, and you'd be disappointed? Smh

I think you and I might be the only people left on THN who think Luck is the better player to pick.

Make that three of us. People think we're getting RG3 and get invested in that. There's nothing wrong with that. If we got Luck, after an initial shock they'd get behind Luck. That would be except the ones who are never satisfied with anything, but they'll be that way regardless as well.

Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.

Unlike, however. most highly mobile quarterbacks, who's production wanes as they age, RGIII is likely to just become a more proficient pocket passer.

Yet, Luck is a higly athletic, and highly mobile quarterback, as well. He is well suited to the type of offense the Shanahan's run, but can also fit perfectly into a more pocket focused scheme...

I really don't think we can go wrong, here... nor can the Colts. This is win-win, all around.

It could not possibly be a better situation, because, really, IT DOES NOT MATTER which we get...

How unusual. In any other season, Luck would be considered remarkable, not only because he is a highly talented, NFL ready quarterback, but also because he is incredibly dynamic, and adds a huge intangible to any team... but because the other highly touted quarterback in the draft is a bit more "exciting", folks who prefer that dynamic would be "disappointed".

People... the differences are really incremental. Which ever we get, is a win, as possibly one of the best quarterbacks to enter the league in many years. I think these two will be compared to each other... like P Manning and T Brady... for many years.

Edit: I just realized I misread your post and we are making the exact same argument.

That's OK . . . a little redundancy never hurt anyone . . .

Countertrey wrote:Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.

Hmm. Are great pocket passer QBs or great mobile QBs more likely to sustain serious injury? I submit that historically it's been the mobile QBs. The great pocket passers tend to be quick on decision making and either make their throw or get rid of it before the crap hits the fan. Mobile QBs tend to extend plays because they're physically able to pull it off . . . but it's those situations where the injuries are more likely to occur.

Just my nonscientific take on it, though I'm sure someone has collected data on this topic, somewhere.

I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.

Growth? Quite frankly, the Skins offer a much better opportunity for growth and available weapons than Indy. So, whoever lands with us will be in a better position.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Frankly, the likely difference in long term production looks to be pretty slim. I think Luck, because of his build and the fact that he is somewhat less mobile (relative to RGIII... not to most quarterbacks) is somewhat less likely to suffer a major injury (he is slightly less likely to place himself in a dangerous situation). In terms of a career run, I think that's the biggest difference between the two.

Hmm. Are great pocket passer QBs or great mobile QBs more likely to sustain serious injury? I submit that historically it's been the mobile QBs. The great pocket passers tend to be quick on decision making and either make their throw or get rid of it before the crap hits the fan. Mobile QBs tend to extend plays because they're physically able to pull it off . . . but it's those situations where the injuries are more likely to occur.

Just my nonscientific take on it, though I'm sure someone has collected data on this topic, somewhere.

I think I said that (perhaps not as clearly as I wanted). Luck is more likely to work from the pocket, for two reasons. 1. he is taller than RGII, meaning that he will have fewer difficulties with poor passing lanes. 2. The Shanahan scheme loves to move the quarterback around.

Keep in mind that the differences between the two are pretty small... with the most significant being Luck's far more substantial build. OTOH, Luck is highly mobile, and willing to take off when it's called for.

See my edit, CT.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.

Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.

Redskin in Canada wrote:The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all

As long as it's RG3 passing Luck and not Luck falling because he's disappointing somehow, it would work.

the poster wrote:Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.

Thanks! This post is a nice summary of the patently obvious that everyone with a passing interest in NFL football already knows. It's sort of like knocking on someone's front door to inform them they have an Azalea bush in their front yard. Um...thanks...

Andrew Luck and RG3 are both going to be future greats

Andrew Luck seems to be ready to play in the NFL, now - RG3 may require a little more time
The Redskins will start RG3 unless he shows that he's not ready OR .. the O line is not capable of protecting him well

the reason I'd prefer RG3 is that he offers the offense a more exciting QB
Luck looks to offer more of a QB that will be versatile but not as dangerous as RG3


RG3 offers a QB that has a great arm AND great legs

Andrew Luck is a proto typical QB - RG3 is a proto typical QB with GREAT mobility

I would be really surprised if the Colts did not take Andrew Luck - we would still be VERY pleased if they took RG3
but I think that we are better off with RG3

SkinsJock wrote:Andrew Luck and RG3 are both going to be future greats

Given a choice, I'd take Luck without blinking. I'll be 100% perfectly happy with Griffin. It'll be nice when the draft is over and this is settled.

did I sound a bit repetitive

I started the post at 8am and should have cut it back before submitting ... oh well


OH - I still hope we get RG3

the poster wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

If RGIII has an outstanding Workout today, we might even not get him.

The consolation price is good, however. NOBODY ever thought REALISTICALLY that we had a chance at Luck at all.

Frankly, I would be happy with either player. I lean towards Luck as the safest choice. Both are great character guys and very similar in athletic ability.

Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Griffin's problem in the NFL will be durability. Plus he's going to a team that has lost a considerable amount of its immediate cap space and has no high draft picks this year, next year or the year after to help him.

And they probably need to upgrade in no less than 10 positions on the field not including depth.

We have made essentially the same point about durability...

OTOH... "upgrade in no less than 10 positions"??? We need to upgrade at FB? We need to upgrade at RB/TB? We need to upgrade at TE? We need to upgrade at LT? We need to upgrade at OLB? We need to upgrade at DE? Seriously? Beyond that re-signing 59 will take care of ILB. NT could stand an upgrade... but it's passable as is... I won't argue regarding OL... but, despite the hollering, it was pretty good, once they had some time together... enough that there were a few 100 yard games... so, I won't panic about that. WR remains to be seen... though it is one plenty fast group. I'm more concerned about the DB's and #59

Redskin in Canada wrote:I am beginning to feel a shift from Luck to RGIII in the opinion polls EVERYWHERE as the legitimate top pick in the Draft.

You're not wrong about that. Merrill Hoge is kind of intentionally contrary sometimes. But he likes RGIII as the better pick of the two:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... over-luck/

For the record, I'll be ecstatic to land either of these guys. I wonder which team these two players prefer. If you were RGIII or Andrew Luck would you rather be drafted by the Skins or Colts this year?

Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see the difference between what RG3 was like in November of 2011 and September of 2012

Some fans are going to be VERY surprised when they see that RG3 uses his mobility to extend the time needed to make the play work and NOT try using his legs and take off running


RG3 and Andrew Luck want to use their arms first and their legs as a means to extend the play - neither wants to run but both can

RG3 will benefit a lot with NFL coaching and weight training

The are BOTH very smart players and are both very aware of all that they need to do to get ready to play in the NFL

First, I concur that The Poster is a bit off on the amount of talent we need to replace/fill this season. Depth is more of a concern for me (especially O Line).....and, of course, secondary help.

Second, it is amazing on what a very good/great QB can produce, and what blemishes he can cover up....refer to loss of Peyton Manning last season in Indy, and impact of Tom Brady the past season on covering up woeful D.

Finally, as I have mentioned in other posts, I am all in on RGIII......maybe I have skewed wrong, but in seeing him play vice Luck, I far and away prefer RGIII......regardless of the system.

The problem that Cunningham, Vick, and others had in the NFL was that they were run first QB's....heck, Vick admitted that until this past season, he had not really studied defenses that well. I do NOT think that RGIII is in that mold.

Look at history. Remember Fran Tarkenton? Fran, for those that remember, was a HIGHLY successful QB (3 SB appearances) who would roll out and extend plays....use his legs to create options. But, he would throw first, run second. How about S. Young, Drew Brees, or even Big Ben? All used their ability to get out of the pocket to evade pass rushers and extend plays. Others, like Cunningham, V. Young, Vick, were/are run first QB's.

I percive that RGIII could potentially be the next S Young, F. Tarkenton or D. Brees. I am not concerned that he is two whole inches shorter than Luck. Again, check physical stats for players mentioned above....

Would I be sad with Luck.....no.....but I have been on the RGIII bandwagon for a long time......even mentioned it to Larry Michael when I saw him at a restaurant in Tysons Corner a month ago. Just prefer him over Luck. Hope that
a. Skins get him in the Draft
b. The hype is well deserved
c. We meet the Colts in a SB with Luck facing off against RGIII......and RGIII comes out on top!

the poster wrote:Look at the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Luck is sitting next to Griffin. Luck is big, looks like an NFL quarterback. For all the scouting I've heard about Griffin, almost all of it positive, he still physically looks like a college kid. Luck is much bigger than him.

Part of one of your better posts. You are overstating your case though - I think - so I will overstate mine with this pic:



DarthMonk

rskin72 said:

I percive that RGIII could potentially be the next S Young, F. Tarkenton or D. Brees. I am not concerned that he is two whole inches shorter than Luck. Again, check physical stats for players mentioned above....

I get your point... the only problem is, I think RGIII is not of that mold... I think he is a new kind of quarterback. Similar to those you mention above, but his incredible athleticism puts him in a new level... Watching him, I see athleticism that far exceeds those you mentioned... much more like those run first quarterbacks you also described... at the same time, he has a cannon arm that may be able to accurately place the ball 65 yards downfield. He has beautiful footwork, and balls leap from his hand in the medium game, with nice touch in the short and fade game. He is super smart, and likes to study.

It's early... but I won't be surprised if, in 4 years, we struggle to find a quarterback to compare him with. I think he's walking in virgin soil. He is the first of a kind. The perfect WCO quarterback. Defensive tactics that work with Mike Vick will result in lethal downfield strikes because of his real desire to complete passes. Defensive tactics that give Tom Brady a headache will simply give him a reason to go somewhere else on the field to throw his pass.

He is super confident, and consumately humble. He is a clever innovator, and a master of the tried and true. He is Superman... but drives a Chrysler Pacifica. Sir and Ma'am are among the most frequently words in his vocabulary, but he's not going to forget about celebrating a big play.

I just hope Jim Irsay keeps true to form, and does not take the relatively small risk involved in taking on this young man. I think he knows that the tried and true offensive philosophy that he prefers cannot possibly take advantage of the opportunities that an RGIII provides.

People, I am absolutely hyping this kid, because he has me completely hyped. I admit, I am over the edge. I don't ever recall seeing the offensive potential this player represents in Burgundy and Gold... and I have seen some damned fine players. Yes... I think he may be Sonny Jurgenson with dreds and legs... and, I think he was born to quarterback Mike Shanahan's offense.

... and, Mr Irsay... How about that Andrew Luck! Looked pretty darned good today, huh?

Countertrey......actually I agree with your post that maybe RGIII could herald in a new era of QB's....but we have all heard that before, and I am trying desperately not to dive off the deep end, drink the kool-aid..etc.... on either Luck or RGIII. Am trying to keep in perspective that pundits have often been wrong before, and we have been horribly wrong on QB draft choices in the past (see Heath Shuler). Also, with only a few exceptions, rookie QB's require time to learn NFL, time to learn teammates, and time to absorb differences in college/NFL game.

Like you, am hoping that Luck is the man in Indy. I know some Colt fans who are on team websites, and everything they are reading would tend to support the Luck first pick vice RGIII.

By the way, after I heard that we were drafting second, I reupped for season Tickets......in hopes of seeing RGIII in B&G.....