The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Idk I like the guys we got last year...

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player? Guess RGIII can throw to himself and block for himself. Can he play "D" too?
Oh wait, there are a few lineman and receivers in free agency we can grab and if they don't work out we can just blame Danny boy..
Maybe it's me, maybe Im mad but I just dont get it...

I would say that's going to be the most we give up. Really, it's a 2nd, 3rd and a 1st next year.
My guess is that it would be a swap of 1st's, a 3rd 4th and a 6th...and the 1st from next year. Since we already have an extra 4th and an extra 6th received from previous trades, we are really only losing a 3rd and next years 1st from our original picks.
Also, don't discount the fact that we have a tremendous amount of cap space to add quality free agents to supplement the draft picks. I know that sounds like the old way of business, but I disagree. This front office adds quality free agents. Look at the guys we added last year. The old front office, ehem, Danny boy and boy wonder, brought in guys that were past thier prime, looking for a final contract to get fat and lazy on.
This is a doable trade. I would be disappointed if our second was included in the deal.

I'm really starting to warm up to the idea of doing this. I listened to Bill Polian tonight on Sirius NFL Radio and he broke down RG3.

1. Olympic speed and hurdle so he's explosive.
2. As accurate as any QB in the NFL up to 50 yds while on the run on top of that.
3. Offers a new diminsion to any team in the short yard play.
4. Will require extra defender in box even on play action passes (staple of the WCO)
5. High Character
6. Super Smart (Thanks Gibbs)
7. Only one guy in the NFL that is more elusive at the QB position and that's Cam Newton.

I do like the sound of all that. My biggest worry is that I just hope all of that translates to the NFL. We will need more pieces on the offense though.

His drive and smarts together w his athletic skills make him as much a sure shot there is. He will out in the work to be the BEST. He wants to change the qb position and be the staple of the future and how its played. Not like Vick or Cam but a faster Steve young who is throw first like he was. Dude WILL be a stud for years to comé.

I am looking at what he can do with less for an O line. Our Oline wasn't too bad but someone like rg3 can make it look much better. Watching him on some of his film I can see a guy that can throw accurate with out his feet planted on the run. If he does have to scramble he will make teams pay. He also has a stiff arm. His flaws will get worked out with time.

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player? Guess RGIII can throw to himself and block for himself. Can he play "D" too?
Oh wait, there are a few lineman and receivers in free agency we can grab and if they don't work out we can just blame Danny boy..
Maybe it's me, maybe Im mad but I just dont get it...

It is a gamble. I would do it. I understand your reluctance.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:What do you think is going to happen if we start a rookie? A playoff run?

That happens often enough that I'm surprised you say this.

We have to wait until after free agency and the draft to make these predictions.

Perhaps, but I take some positive movement in the draft/FA as a given. I think Shanny/Allen can get the benefit of the doubt here given their overall track record since taking over.

(Isn't it a little unrealistic to assume that people who are saying RGIII could be an upgrade that makes us competitive don't also have in mind a few other FA/draft acquisitions?)

The line between success and failure is thinner than ever in the NFL. We beat the Giants, soundly, twice and were a near-even match for the Patriots. We have a competitive defense and a running game in place. Our #1 bottleneck is the most important position in the game. Add a quality QB, and I don't see how going from 5-11 to 9-7 or even 10-6(+) is a stretch.

If we just add RGIII, with no other major additions, then no chance we make the playoffs. Improve the oline, add a big-time receiver, and fix the secondary...then you might be looking at a playoff run.

We don't need a major OL upgrade to be playoff worthy, though getting another starter could help. A big-time receiver would make us competitive deep into the playoffs but we may not need one to get there.

Of the three needs you list (after QB I agree these are our top three areas of weakness), I see our secondary as most problematic. If we don't upgrade there in FA or the draft in some way, I agree that it will hurt our playoff chances significantly.

Anybody expecting RGIII to come in here, in this division, and start working miracles from Day 1 is setting themselves up for some serious disappointment.

I'm not expecting miracles, but then (as I say above) I don't think it's going to take a miracle to see the Redskins competing for a playoff spot next year. That's something that's been a work in progress (and making progress) ever since Shanny got here, IMO.

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:What do you think is going to happen if we start a rookie? A playoff run?

That happens often enough that I'm surprised you say this.

We have to wait until after free agency and the draft to make these predictions.

Perhaps, but I take some positive movement in the draft/FA as a given. I think Shanny/Allen can get the benefit of the doubt here given their overall track record since taking over.

(Isn't it a little unrealistic to assume that people who are saying RGIII could be an upgrade that makes us competitive don't also have in mind a few other FA/draft acquisitions?)

The line between success and failure is thinner than ever in the NFL. We beat the Giants, soundly, twice and were a near-even match for the Patriots. We have a competitive defense and a running game in place. Our #1 bottleneck is the most important position in the game. Add a quality QB, and I don't see how going from 5-11 to 9-7 or even 10-6(+) is a stretch.

If we just add RGIII, with no other major additions, then no chance we make the playoffs. Improve the oline, add a big-time receiver, and fix the secondary...then you might be looking at a playoff run.

We don't need a major OL upgrade to be playoff worthy, though getting another starter could help. A big-time receiver would make us competitive deep into the playoffs but we may not need one to get there.

Of the three needs you list (after QB I agree these are our top three areas of weakness), I see our secondary as most problematic. If we don't upgrade there in FA or the draft in some way, I agree that it will hurt our playoff chances significantly.

Anybody expecting RGIII to come in here, in this division, and start working miracles from Day 1 is setting themselves up for some serious disappointment.

I'm not expecting miracles, but then (as I say above) I don't think it's going to take a miracle to see the Redskins competing for a playoff spot next year. That's something that's been a work in progress (and making progress) ever since Shanny got here, IMO.

All valid points. However, do you not expect other teams in our conference and division to not get better as well?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Cam Newton set the record for most passing yards EVER by a rookie. To expect something like that from RGIII, if he were to even start Day 1, is unrealistic at this point. And even with the record breaking performance of Cam Newton the Panthers still only won 6 games.

There has been no free agency yet, or the draft, so we don't even know how much better we will be, or any of the other teams in our division or conference, so making predictions for the playoffs at this point in time is stupid.

You're missing the point. I'm not expecting RGIII to be Cam or do what Cam did. Substitute Andy Dalton with Cam... My point is that RGIII's ability can elevate the talent around him. Very simple. We were arguably a .500 with Rex, it's not unreasonable to think we could win 9 games in my hypothetical scenario. That's all it is, a scenario.

Huge difference between Cam and Dalton. Cam elevated his team, while Dalton was elevated by AJ Green.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Cam Newton set the record for most passing yards EVER by a rookie. To expect something like that from RGIII, if he were to even start Day 1, is unrealistic at this point. And even with the record breaking performance of Cam Newton the Panthers still only won 6 games.

There has been no free agency yet, or the draft, so we don't even know how much better we will be, or any of the other teams in our division or conference, so making predictions for the playoffs at this point in time is stupid.

You're missing the point. I'm not expecting RGIII to be Cam or do what Cam did. Substitute Andy Dalton with Cam... My point is that RGIII's ability can elevate the talent around him. Very simple. We were arguably a .500 with Rex, it's not unreasonable to think we could win 9 games in my hypothetical scenario. That's all it is, a scenario.

Huge difference between Cam and Dalton. Cam elevated his team, while Dalton was elevated by AJ Green.

I'm pretty sure they helped each other. Just sayin....

tribeofjudah wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

riggofan wrote:
Also, I know Fisher and Shanny are friends, but I don't get where people think that he is going to cut us a deal as a result. Why would he and why would the Rams org. be ok with that? It might give us an edge in the negotiation part, but that's about it.

If the Skins and Browns are offering similiar packages, I'm sure he'll give his friend the deal before someone else. Even if it's a slight difference in what we offer, if he's like most people, he'll give his friend the offer anyway.

I see what you're saying. I guess that could be true if the packages are similar in value. Like the Browns offer their two #1s this year and #3 next year vs. we offer a #1/#2 and next year's #1 or something. Its possible. I was just saying I don't think we're going to get any kind of best-pal-discount on the trade. We still have to make as strong an offer as any other team.

The real advantage I see is that Shanahan maybe has a better line of communication with Fisher because of their friendship. They could be talking about potential deals way before any other teams have a chance. Fisher could also be giving him a heads up on what other teams are offering, who else is in play, etc;

Forgive me, last year was the first time we got to watch the draft over here so I'm a little hazy on the politics of some of it.

So how does it work in our situation...? If Shanny and Fisher agreed to something it wouldn't be announced until the time would it...??? Or can we deal with them now and make an agreement that could be announced in advance of the draft...??

It's called "tampering".....kinda like what happened with Haynesworth (allegedly tampering before due time....)

Not the same situation at all. This isn't tampering because RGIII isn't currently under contract to any team.

Thanks, that makes a bit more sense, didn't get the tampering thing if he's still at college technically...

chiefhog44 wrote:Oh and just another teaser

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0 ... le=HP11_cp

That was great.

CanesSkins26 wrote:If we just add RGIII, with no other major additions, then no chance we make the playoffs.

Why? We make the playoffs last year with only marginally better QB play. I don't see why you think it's out of the question this year.

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player?

Yes.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Huge difference between Cam and Dalton. Cam elevated his team, while Dalton was elevated by AJ Green.

AJ Green doesn't have the rookie season that he had without a competent QB at the helm. If you but Beck or Grossman back there and Green accomplishing 1/4 of what he did.

Dalton and Green collectively aided the team and each other. He was the first rookie quarterback to throw for 20 touchdowns and lead his team to win eight games or more. Together they were great in terms of receptions (62) and yards (1,002), the most in 30 years or so if I remembering from the article correctly.

Point is, as I said before. A good QB will elevate the talent around him AND make proper use of the all-star talent on the team.

RGIII IMHO, would elevate the game of those around him that are currently here. Coupled with the quality additions that the FO will get and have proven thus far to make, we should be a 8-9 win team next year.

Deadskins wrote:

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player?

Yes.

I'm sure you're not the only one, and I understand why you feel that way. But you gotta get over it.

If you could go back to 1998, would you have given up a 1st, 2d,3d and next year's first to get Peyton Manning? We didn't actually have a 1st in 1998, but to put it in perspective say you would have had Peyton Manning instead of Champ Bailey, LaVar, Stephen Alexander, Skip Hicks and Shawn Barber.

Some good players in there, but how many are still with the Redskins?

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player?

Yes.

I'm sure you're not the only one, and I understand why you feel that way. But you gotta get over it.

If you could go back to 1998, would you have given up a 1st, 2d,3d and next year's first to get Peyton Manning? We didn't actually have a 1st in 1998, but to put it in perspective say you would have had Peyton Manning instead of Champ Bailey, LaVar, Stephen Alexander, Skip Hicks and Shawn Barber.

Some good players in there, but how many are still with the Redskins?

Now that is the way to look at it.

RG3 clearly is showing enough to make people believe he could be a future NFL legend. It is only a 'could be' as every draft prospect has an element of risk, but if one comes along with his talent we need to say we went for it with him rather than 'we could have had him!' as he lifts his third SuperBowl for the Eagles.

Yeah, think about that...

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

yajexyage wrote:Am I the only one that thinks 2011 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 2012 1st is way too much for any player?

Yes.

I'm sure you're not the only one, and I understand why you feel that way. But you gotta get over it.

If you could go back to 1998, would you have given up a 1st, 2d,3d and next year's first to get Peyton Manning? We didn't actually have a 1st in 1998, but to put it in perspective say you would have had Peyton Manning instead of Champ Bailey, LaVar, Stephen Alexander, Skip Hicks and Shawn Barber.

Some good players in there, but how many are still with the Redskins?

Now that is the way to look at it.

RG3 clearly is showing enough to make people believe he could be a future NFL legend. It is only a 'could be' as every draft prospect has an element of risk, but if one comes along with his talent we need to say we went for it with him rather than 'we could have had him!' as he lifts his third SuperBowl for the Eagles.

Yeah, think about that...

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:RG3 clearly is showing enough to make people believe he could be a future NFL legend. It is only a 'could be' as every draft prospect has an element of risk, but if one comes along with his talent we need to say we went for it with him rather than 'we could have had him!' as he lifts his third SuperBowl for the Eagles.

Well said. And forget about a future NFL legend, I'd be satisfied just to pick up a guy who can be a quality QB for this team for the next decade. How much better could we be if we weren't wondering who our QB was going to be every year?

Again, I totally understand the hesitation on making this kind of trade. Its definitely a bold and risky move. I hope the team does it only if they feel RGIII is really a special, can't-miss type of player.

Alright! I hit my 2000+ post today. I am both proud and ashamed of myself.

Well that's it, isn't it. If we were getting mixed reports about him then I'd be more cautious. But the fact is everyone is raving about this guy, he seems to have it all and he's gonna go 2nd, how good must Luck be!??!

His ability and maturity is astounding, we have to take this calculated risk for the long term good of the Redskins. The potential upside is just so exciting.

riggofan wrote:Alright! I hit my 2000+ post today. I am both proud and ashamed of myself.

Watch out! I'm caatching you up...

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

riggofan wrote:Alright! I hit my 2000+ post today. I am both proud and ashamed of myself.

Watch out! I'm caatching you up...

Is that English for "I'm catching up with you"...? I like it.

tribeofjudah wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

riggofan wrote:Alright! I hit my 2000+ post today. I am both proud and ashamed of myself.

Watch out! I'm caatching you up...

Is that English for "I'm catching up with you"...? I like it.

Stupid little blackberry buttons, not designed for adult fingers!