The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Putting RG3 on this team while also trading away 2 years worth of young talent would be like parking a Lamborghini Aventator in the lot front of your apartment and spending the rest of your money on rims.

I disagree but would have agreed last year...

Sans injury, there's enough offensive talent for him to succeed here. It's arguable that Rex could have hit .500 if he wasn't benched.

If they Skins go out and get a D. Bowe (lol), in free-agency. Upgrade the line a bit. They'll have a good squad for this kid (or whomever) to manage.

Put it this way. If the Skins go out and sign Bowe, or Jackson, & Carl Nicks (or more talent along the O Line) then I would be more comfortable with them making a trade for RG3.

Free Agency opens normally this year (pre-draft) so we will see. I think we'll have a better shot a Bowe because he strikes me as a guy looking for a good deal moreso than a good team. I don't think VJack is looking for a team without a proven QB.

Now this is where the rubber meets the road .... free agents want to go where they'll have the greatest chance of success, including championships. And I see Vincent Jackson as one of the truly dynamic WR out there to be had this off season, but receivers aren't going to be beating down the doors to sign with a team who is so unsettled at the position most connected to their ultimate success. So, in that regard, the decision has to be get the passer and the receiver will come ... not the other way around. And that may also influence other potential free agents, particularly offensive players.

For argument's sake, let's just say that it takes this year's #1 and 3rd, and next year's #1, to trade up to get RG3. That's cheap, and even cheaper if that also helps you sign a guy like Jackson. First, if RG3 pans out (and no pick is guaranteed, including anyone else you draft) he's worth the picks all by himself. Add in Jackson to the mix, and you immediately make a huge leap forward on offense.

The second consideration is, year to year, who is available to fill a QB spot versus say an o-line position in free agency? This year here are what 6 or 7 very good FA o-linemen ? How many QBs are there? See, this is the key ... you just can't get franchise QBs on the FA market .... doesn't happen. You can fill virtually ANY OTHER hole you may have in free agency.

Hopefully, we won't be in better position to draft a QB next year .... chances are, we'll be in way worse position in the draft, with less available talent on the board, and that golden opportunity that is presented this year by the fact that the 2nd best guy available falls to a team that just drafted their franchise QB first overall two years ago. This makes a trade up that much more doable this year than what you will likely be facing next year (for you Barkley hold outs).

This really is a no-brainer for the Redskins at this point ... this is THE TIME to get your QB .... it could be a five or more years from now before the Redskins might be in position to take a top 5 talent at QB.

This is a .... NO ..... B R A I N E R

RayNAustin wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Putting RG3 on this team while also trading away 2 years worth of young talent would be like parking a Lamborghini Aventator in the lot front of your apartment and spending the rest of your money on rims.

I disagree but would have agreed last year...

Sans injury, there's enough offensive talent for him to succeed here. It's arguable that Rex could have hit .500 if he wasn't benched.

If they Skins go out and get a D. Bowe (lol), in free-agency. Upgrade the line a bit. They'll have a good squad for this kid (or whomever) to manage.

Put it this way. If the Skins go out and sign Bowe, or Jackson, & Carl Nicks (or more talent along the O Line) then I would be more comfortable with them making a trade for RG3.

Free Agency opens normally this year (pre-draft) so we will see. I think we'll have a better shot a Bowe because he strikes me as a guy looking for a good deal moreso than a good team. I don't think VJack is looking for a team without a proven QB.

Now this is where the rubber meets the road .... free agents want to go where they'll have the greatest chance of success, including championships. And I see Vincent Jackson as one of the truly dynamic WR out there to be had this off season, but receivers aren't going to be beating down the doors to sign with a team who is so unsettled at the position most connected to their ultimate success. So, in that regard, the decision has to be get the passer and the receiver will come ... not the other way around. And that may also influence other potential free agents, particularly offensive players.

For argument's sake, let's just say that it takes this year's #1 and 3rd, and next year's #1, to trade up to get RG3. That's cheap, and even cheaper if that also helps you sign a guy like Jackson. First, if RG3 pans out (and no pick is guaranteed, including anyone else you draft) he's worth the picks all by himself. Add in Jackson to the mix, and you immediately make a huge leap forward on offense.

The second consideration is, year to year, who is available to fill a QB spot versus say an o-line position in free agency? This year here are what 6 or 7 very good FA o-linemen ? How many QBs are there? See, this is the key ... you just can't get franchise QBs on the FA market .... doesn't happen. You can fill virtually ANY OTHER hole you may have in free agency.

Hopefully, we won't be in better position to draft a QB next year .... chances are, we'll be in way worse position in the draft, with less available talent on the board, and that golden opportunity that is presented this year by the fact that the 2nd best guy available falls to a team that just drafted their franchise QB first overall two years ago. This makes a trade up that much more doable this year than what you will likely be facing next year (for you Barkley hold outs).

This really is a no-brainer for the Redskins at this point ... this is THE TIME to get your QB .... it could be a five or more years from now before the Redskins might be in position to take a top 5 talent at QB.

This is a .... NO ..... B R A I N E R

The key being your assumption on what it will cost to move up. If the trade involves swapping 1st round picks with the Rams or Browns, & only giving up this year's 3 and next year's 1, then that is a fair trade in my opinion.

If we're trading with the Rams at #2, their pick is valued at 2600 points (based on all we have to go on right now)

The 6th pick would be valued at 1600 points. So we would have 1000 points to make up, if we do an even deal.

How could we make that up? 2012 First Round Pick (No. 6 overall, 1600 points), 2012 Second Round Pick (No. 39 overall, 510 points), a 2012 Fourth Round Pick (No. 102 overall, 92 points), and a 2013 Second Round Pick (450 points).

If the Rams are willing to do that deal, we should do it and make the pick before Goodell even gets back from the podium after announcing Luck. I suspect they will want more top picks than a high number of picks to reach that total.

What's more likely to happen (In my opinion) is the Rams auctioning that pick and giving it to the highest bidder. Accordingly, it will wind up costing more than that. If your proposed trade would get it done. DO IT. But, if bidding starts getting into the first round of 2014--fold em.

Let me be clear in a short post, that I would trade up for RG3 IF it only cost next year's #1 pick and perhaps another selection outside of the first round.

My caution in this trade talk is based on my personal opinion that it will cost a bit more than that. And, I'm not of the mind that we can afford to give up 2 1st round picks, or something in that area. As a result, my eyes are open and so is my mind.

The Hogster wrote:Let me be clear in a short post, that I would trade up for RG3 IF it only cost next year's #1 pick and perhaps another selection outside of the first round.

My caution in this trade talk is based on my personal opinion that it will cost a bit more than that. And, I'm not of the mind that we can afford to give up 2 1st round picks, or something in that area. As a result, my eyes are open and so is my mind.

This years 1st, next years 1st and this years 2nd (or this an next year's 3rd) would be my max offer. I really would like (and think he might) fall to us. If he doesn't and the Rams want more, I'd have to pass. It won't be a lost because if we don't get him than Richardson will still be on the board and he can then be shopped to the highest bidder.

I've always said we can't afford to trade up to get him, but that was when there were other options (Barkley... and others). Now a reasonable trade up seems do-able. A free agent that can start IF needed should be picked up prior to the draft but no one should be signed thinking they won't have to earn the spot.

That being said I hope Tannehill drops like a rock and falls to a late 2nd rd projection.

Trading down in he 2nd round should give them the pick to get him and add another draft pick.

But like CS26 said... We are who we are.... So someone else will overpay for RGIII's draft rights and Tannehill will have the best pro-day in the history

Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

I think that the Redskins have shown progress. They've shown a change in mindset throughout the entire organization. Sans injuries and the benching of Grossman, this prolly a .500 team.

That being said, if Mike courts some of these WR's and tells them that they're going to get RGIII or they've already signed Flynn. This team becomes relatively attractive.

This isn't the same desolate team as before... Players will want to come here because things are headed in the right direction, not for a pay day. Look at Bowen, Cofield, Atogwe... Look at London WANTING to resign here and set the ship straight.

Viewing this team as a waste land for free agents is an old way of thinking.

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

Mistake on his part. He's going to stay in so that he can come out the year that Barkley, & Jones come out. Instead of this year where more teams are QB starved and ready to move into the first to take him?

Pretty balsy if he's betting that he's going to make up enough ground this year to warrant a Top 10 pick. Luck & Griff could possibly go 1 and 2 with him being in line to overtake an injured Tannenhill.

Advice fail in my opinion.

Don't rule out Mike Glennon at NC State. He's highly touted and if he does next year what he did this year, he's easily a top 15 QB who plays in a pro-style offense and has the measurable's the NFL loves.

I'd agree with the thread title .... BUT .... for next year's draft!

this crop of QBs (outside of Luck & Griffin) is not all that great - hopefully the FO can get us a couple more high picks in next year's draft and we can use them to draft a good QB - it's hard to say for sure but next year's QB class is already looking pretty decent

I want a good QB as badly as anyone but I hope we don't stop doing what we've been doing here RECENTLY

I'd take Griffin in a heartbeat as long as we don't have to trade up for him - that being said, let's continue to build and bring in a bunch of FA QBs to compete for the job - there's got to be at least 1 free agent QB that can help upgrade the QB play here

Assuming that Mike & Bruce really want RGIII, I'm fine with trading up to get him - I think the asking price will be too high

IF there's a QB in the draft that they think might we worth a pick then fine BUT these guys should continue to add through the draft and free agency and NOT reach for a college QB just because we're in this dilemma

this franchise is on a good path right now and we all know there's no quick way to ensure we get a ccp (consistently competitive product) we all can be proud of again

THIS IS A TEAM GAME - STICK WITH THE PLAN

SkinsJock wrote:Assuming that Mike & Bruce really want RGIII, I'm fine with trading up to get him - I think the asking price will be too high

IF there's a QB in the draft that they think might we worth a pick then fine BUT these guys should continue to add through the draft and free agency and NOT reach for a college QB just because we're in this dilemma

this franchise is on a good path right now and we all know there's no quick way to ensure we get a ccp (consistently competitive product) we all can be proud of again

THIS IS A TEAM GAME - STICK WITH THE PLAN

Your quote in a previous post on this topic:

"I'd take Griffin in a heartbeat as long as we don't have to trade up for him - that being said, let's continue to build and bring in a bunch of FA QBs to compete for the job - there's got to be at least 1 free agent QB that can help upgrade the QB play here"

So help me out. Are you in favor of trading up to get RG III or not?

SkinsJock wrote:I'd agree with the thread title .... BUT .... for next year's draft!

this crop of QBs (outside of Luck & Griffin) is not all that great - hopefully the FO can get us a couple more high picks in next year's draft and we can use them to draft a good QB - it's hard to say for sure but next year's QB class is already looking pretty decent

I want a good QB as badly as anyone but I hope we don't stop doing what we've been doing here RECENTLY

I'd take Griffin in a heartbeat as long as we don't have to trade up for him - that being said, let's continue to build and bring in a bunch of FA QBs to compete for the job - there's got to be at least 1 free agent QB that can help upgrade the QB play here

The problem with what you're saying is that a lot can happen between now and the 2013 draft. This year's draft looked phenomenal just a few weeks ago, and now you have Luck, RG3, and....???

The Hogster wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

1niksder wrote:Tannehill’s agent, confirmed that Tannehill broke the fifth metatarsal in his foot during passing drills in Fla., and might need surgery.

Although recovery from the surgery could keep Tannehill from working out at the scouting combine in February. This might get the Redskins just what I think they need....

Flynn in FA , RGIII with the first pick and another QB, later in the draft.

Tannehill will have his pro day as the only post bowl workouts, this mean he really doesn't have to worry about his stock dropping, until then but a poor showing then will not give him a avenue to redeem himself. I hope it's pouring down raining with tornado warnings on his pro day.

In some ways the Skins just can't catch a break. A few weeks ago it looked like we had (after Luck) to chose from Barkley, RG3, and Jones, with guys like Tannehill later on. Barkley and Jones are out, RG3 might be gone by #6, and now Tannehill, who doesn't have a lot of film on him, will likely only have his pro day to give teams more to evaluate him by.

I look at it as glass half full. If we can't trade up for RG3. Then we have a chance to address other needs, and possibly land Tannenhill with a later pick (assuming his stock is affected by his foot injury). If we suck again, then at least next year's QB draft will be deep.

Nobody wants to acknowledge the possiblity of having a Top 10-15 pick next year, but its possible--especially if by some wicked turn of events we are cursed with having another year of Gross-man to endure.

Gotta keep in mind the fact that the Skins are no longer the FA destination due to the open purse. If another team offers Matt Flynn, Kevin Kolb type money and the assurance that he's the guy--we aren't going to get him. If another team offers Cleveland or St. Louis a Vinny Cerratto like trade--we aren't getting RG3.

Those are just the facts--this rebuild will take some time if we do it right.

Oh it is very possible we could be picking in the top 10 next year...Especially if we do not take advantage of our draft position this year and nab a QB.

That in my opinion is a nightmare scenario. Will probably cost Shanny his job. The bright side is maybe Danny decides to sell the team.

GoSkins wrote:That in my opinion is a nightmare scenario. Will probably cost Shanny his job. The bright side is maybe Danny decides to sell the team.

One can wish I guess. But, I seriously doubt it. Six Flags & Johnny Rockets are in the tank. Besides, Snyder likes to be famous. The owner of Johhny Rockets has no chance at being as famous as Steinbrenner, Mark Cuban, or Jerrah

GoSkins wrote:.. help me out. Are you in favor of trading up to get RG III or not?

I'm known around here as the consumate fence sitter

I will admit to fluctuating on this topic

THIS MONTH's version = If these guys really, really like RGIII (Luck is not an option) then I'd give up 2 #1 picks but not much more and I think it's going to take more than that

I hope they don't offer any more than that ... AND then I hope they trade down

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As an Arkansas fan, I feel this is the best decision. His #3 QB ranking is more to do with the class than his actual ability. General opinion is he'll improve his overall stock by coming back. He was rated apparently a late 1st rounder to an early 2nd rounder and by coming back feels he can give himself a safe 1st round stock. He also comes from a family with solid finances so he's in no desperate need for money and can afford to wait an extra year.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

Smithian wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As an Arkansas fan, I feel this is the best decision. His #3 QB ranking is more to do with the class than his actual ability. General opinion is he'll improve his overall stock by coming back. He was rated apparently a late 1st rounder to an early 2nd rounder and by coming back feels he can give himself a safe 1st round stock. He also comes from a family with solid finances so he's in no desperate need for money and can afford to wait an extra year.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

The quality of the product the Baltimore Ravens are putting out 30 minutes away isn't helping either.

Btw, I have plenty of family in DC and visit often(even interned in DC for a summer), so I'm not talking out my rear when I discuss the DC area.

Smithian wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

Just curious...how old are you? I've thought a lot about this post for the last couple days and I have a theory as to why you feel this way, cause I just don't agree with it.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Smithian wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

Just curious...how old are you? I've thought a lot about this post for the last couple days and I have a theory as to why you feel this way, cause I just don't agree with it.

Not sure if you're asking me, but I'm 33.

frankcal20 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

Smithian wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

Just curious...how old are you? I've thought a lot about this post for the last couple days and I have a theory as to why you feel this way, cause I just don't agree with it.

Not sure if you're asking me, but I'm 33.

No asking Smithian. I'm guessing he's under 28, At that age, realistically, you wouldn't remember any super bowls, good seasons, much of anything positive about this franchise. I could see why it would seem to him and his friends that the fans are dying, or giving up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can tell you, that fans are not dying off. Going into hibernation...yes, dying off...don't think so. It's called being fair weathered.

I felt the same way about the Blackhawks. One of the most popular teams in the NHL, one of the original 6, team with history, great uniforms, the list goes on. They absolutely sucked, with bad management, poor coaching, blacked out games...the list goes on. They couldn't give tickets away. Anyway, they got a new GM, started building through the draft, and now they are dominant. Look at any game on the road. Half the stadium is hawks fans. Difference is that our owner died and that prompted changes. With the Skins, luckily Snyder realized it and made the necessary changes.

I had the same feeling I did about them in 2007 that I do about the Skins last year. New GM, using the draft, and a different attitude. Put a winning team on the field, and these fair-weather fans will be back in full force. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Hogster wrote:

emoses14 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I wouldn't be mad if we got RGIII, I just think people are putting too much stock in him before he's even played in an NFL game. And if this Tannehill guy has the same potential as RGIII, why not draft him later and trade down?

+1

Because fans always want the hot commodity. Most don't look at players other than the ones who get the most coverage. I'd wager that many of the people who want RG3 so badly now hadn't even heard of him last year.

Or because it doesn't appear to most of us that Tannehill has the same potential that RGIII does? Not sure even you believe that he does.

All any of us have to go on is what we've seen with our own eyes and reading the gluttony of reports on the 2. Not sure that wanting the hot commodity is such an evil when its directed at a quality commodity. Tannehill may be great, may not be. RGIII, the same. But all indications AT THIS TIME point to RGIII being the better prospect of the 2. I get your touting of Tannehill (and I actually agree with the substance of your take, if not the dismissive manner with which you generally comment on those in favor of RGIII).

Putting too much stock in someone before they've even played an NFL game. Umm, isn't that what any draft talk is?

I agree with all of your post, except the highlighted part. I am a big fan of RG3. I would love for him to be in the B & G as he will pose immediate problems for opposing defenses and we can win with him now as he develops into an even better pro.

I also think he is the better pick between he and Tannenhill. But, I also think he'll be gone before pick 6. So, where I disagree is with those who believe that we should "do whatever it takes" to move up in the draft to take him--and for these reasons.

I think it will cost mulitple high picks to move up. Quite possibly 2 1st round picks, and maybe more. I don't think we are a good enough team to do trade away that much for 1 guy. As a result, I believe it's in the best interest of the Redskins to build in the model of a team like Baltimore, rather than a team like the Falcons did when they moved up to take Vick.

In other words, I am like the guy who loves the 2011 Lamborghini Aventador. I have $500,000 in the bank. But, I have no home and no garage to keep it in. I love the car just like the next guy. But, I realize that I can't afford it yet. I'd rather invest, buy a home first, and maybe shop for a Mercedes or Porsche that can perform at a high level at a fraction of the cost.

Putting RG3 on this team while also trading away 2 years worth of young talent would be like parking a Lamborghini Aventator in the lot front of your apartment and spending the rest of your money on rims.

I agree, with what you're getting at. I don't want to mortgage our future for him either. But I really think RGIII is gonna be special and would love it if our GM can swing him without giving up much. You posted the following somewhere else, and I'm not sure where my "too much" point is in terms of what we'd have to give up. But generally I agree. Might be worth this and next year's 1 or 2. Haven't made up my mind yet (based on what I think our record would be nest year, if we got him this year.

The Hogster wrote: My caution in this trade talk is based on my personal opinion that it will cost a bit more than that. And, I'm not of the mind that we can afford to give up 2 1st round picks, or something in that area. As a result, my eyes are open and so is my mind.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Smithian wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Wilson just confirmed that he's staying for his senior year. That's really too bad b/c while I haven't seen much, he's considered to be a Pro-Ready QB by the guys who scout this stor of thing.

As far as RGIII, this franchise needs a QB in short order. The team's strangle hold on the market is dying, interest is way low, the crowds are getting sad, and although things are going the right way the situation does smell of death. Get a QB this offseason or don't even bother taking the field next season. The local fan base for the first time ever is giving up on the 'Skins.

Just curious...how old are you? I've thought a lot about this post for the last couple days and I have a theory as to why you feel this way, cause I just don't agree with it.

Early 20's.

Don't mistake my post for me personally losing interest. I love the Redskins. But I also know from going to DC often my whole life the interest just seems to be dropping with everyone. I flew up last year for a Caps regular season and a playoff game and wore a Caps jersey game day.... Talked Caps with lots of people. Wore a Redskins jersey the day of last year's MNF game against the Eagles and people only said stuff like "Yeah, we're gonna get killed" and "We paid McNabb WHAT?"

Plus I can see the stands just like everyone else. The seats are not filling up. The online ticket prices are super low. It's always been tough to fill up a huge stadium and DC has tons of fans who have moved in from other places, but the stadium crowds are getting worse and worse.

The Redskins can take back the town easily, but it won't be easy. Won't be overnight. People love Ovechkin, people love Strasburg, people love.... Who on the Redskins? Yeah, we all like Orakpo, Helu, Fletcher, Moss, etc, but who is the guy you sell to the community?

I love the Redskins. Always will. 16-0 or 0-16. But I am not the general DC populace. The Redskins roll out Grossman and Beck or another craptastic retread at QB next season and do anything less than have a winning record and you'll be seeing late season games with 30,000 fans and an atmosphere that makes 2003 and 2009 look happy and optimistic.

Smithian wrote:I love the Redskins. Always will. 16-0 or 0-16. But I am not the general DC populace. The Redskins roll out Grossman and Beck or another craptastic retread at QB next season and do anything less than have a winning record and you'll be seeing late season games with 30,000 fans and an atmosphere that makes 2003 and 2009 look happy and optimistic.

I'm not sure you can make the judgement you're making though purely based on looking at the stadium. Its not a great stadium, the game day experience there kind of stinks, prices are ridiculous and the economy sucks.

Bad team or not, the local sports news and radio here is DOMINATED by the Redskins nearly year round. Not to mention the team is the 4th most valuable franchise in the world. Right behind THE YANKEES.

Fans may be frustrated and worn out by the Skins, but they'll be back and tuned in again like always as soon as free agency starts up in March. Its crazy to think what this place would be like if Snyder ever fields another champion team.