Post game - Skins Pats

[mastdark81]

He should at the very least be benched for a game to see if it has any effect on him. The guy has never been a consistent tackler, and that play on Gronkowski was simply inexcusable.

Did I miss something, isn't DHall the guy that made the tackle of Gronkowski?

Look the way the refs were throwing 15 yard flags Sunday, I can see Hall getting a yellow hankie if he had hit Gronk when he was "in the grasp". Hall thought just like I did that the HE TE had stepped out.

So play until the whistle blows, right? Just ask Kevin Barnes had that works out. He kept playing last week, made a clean hit on Sanchez, and still drew a roughing call. The Refs said the whistle had blown, even though no one heard it.

Am I making an excuse for Hall? Yes. Should he have went over and pushed Gronkowski out of bounds? Yes. Can I understand how he would be hesitant to hit a player after he thought the play was over, even though he didn't hear the whistle? Yes. Can I understand why Tanahan is mad with him? Yes.

I'm madder at Hall for the bone head flag toss! I'm madder at the Refs having a completely incompetent game! I'm madder at Elderman getting rewarded for bad acting!

PERFECT POST MAN

[StorminMormon86]

Did I miss something, isn't DHall the guy that made the tackle of Gronkowski?

Nope, he's the guy that stood there and watched two of his teammates struggling to take him down. The flag throwing is inexcusable for someone wearing a "C" on their jersey.

[skinsfan#33]

Did I miss something, isn't DHall the guy that made the tackle of Gronkowski?

Nope, he's the guy that stood there and watched two of his teammates struggling to take him down. The flag throwing is inexcusable for someone wearing a "C" on their jersey.

I'm not talking about at the spot where he stood there and watched two of his team mates trying to take down a guy that looked like he was out of bounds. I'm talking about after Gronkowski broke free, it was Hall who actually chased him down and did what two safeties, with the benefit of sideline, couldn't do.

[The Hogster]

Stop crying about D Hall. He's damn near as polarizing as Tebow. A lot you guys hate him and can't WAIT for him to give you a reason to bash him. We all see it. Shut it up.

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

[Red_One43]

Here is the replay http://www.twitvid.com/73GEZ

Thanks for passing that along. Yeah, that's pretty damning of Moss's move.

Hernandez did the same thing to Barnes earlier in the game (except Barnes isn't an actor and didn't take a dive). Of course Hernadez dropped a perfect pass for a TD, but the flag still should have come out.

I have one question. Inside of 5 yards a DB can molest a WR as much as he wants as long as he doesn't hold him and the ball isn't in the air, and that is a legal play. Heck the DB can knock a guy to the ground and that is OK as long as it is in 5 yards.

So why can't a WR push a little too?

With all the rules that favor the offense this one is decidedly in favor of the defense.

You are right about Hernandez shoving Barnes off of him. All the TE's do that to Barnes.

About the 5 yds - contact is legal both ways for the WR and the DB. I tried to see if Moss's contact was within 5 yards. It looks like the initial contact was but with the acting job by the DB, it looked like it went beyond the 5 yards. I think had the ref seen the initial contact, he doesn't make that call. The DB was also shoving Moss. Moss got the last shove and that is what they called and it was outside of the 5 yds at that point.

The initial contact was made at the 2 yard line and ended at three 1 yard line. The LoS was the 5yard line + about 6". So All of the contact was made within 5 yds of the LoS.

I don't think offensive players can push off to gain separation even inside of 5 yds, but I could be wrong. If it matters MS said the call was the correct call even if it was a little on the picky side.

I agree that the call was picky. I agree with your yard line synopsis, but I think what got the Ref's attention, was Edelman flopping backward in the endzone. The Ref clearly believed the acting job by Edelman or he was clearly biased or a both. I believe both but without the bias, the call is not made since was was so close to 5 yards. One thing we can agree on the refs were consistent in on the calls in that area. Did you see any O line holding calls on the Pats? We had one major one which I agree that it was holding, but I saw some major holds on the Pats, but not one called that I can remember.

I agree the flop probably drew the flag.

I didn't think Mo Hurt was holding. His hand was in the chest of the player and his shoulder was still ahead of the DL shoulder. If that is even technically holding, which I don't think it was, it was the type of holding that gets called one time out of 500.

I agree with you on the Mo call. I saw it from the stands and my comment was - at least the refs are letting both O lines just play, they could have called that holding. I cheered for the big completion and was shocked to see that the Ref had thrown the flag. It was thrown late. If they called that then they should have been calling the Pats O line for at least two holds, if not more - I still don't remember even one called on them.

[Red_One43]

Here's the Gronk play from two different angles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoNTSmxP7E

[welch]

Here's the Gronk play from two different angles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoNTSmxP7E

Isn't he down from original contact?

[Countertrey]

Here's the Gronk play from two different angles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoNTSmxP7E

Isn't he down from original contact?

No.

It was thoroughly reviewed by the Patriot's... I'm sorry... I mean the NFL's Referee, who said there was no contact.

[SkinsJock]

Stop crying about D Hall. He's damn near as polarizing as Tebow. A lot you guys hate him and can't WAIT for him to give you a reason to bash him. We all see it. Shut it up.

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

^^^ +1 Hall made a mistake ... and he's made a few mistakes this season, so what

I like having him in B&G - warts and all - We're lucky to have him

we have a bunch of players that are not playing well - give them all a hard time - you're a fan, you're entitled to




the refs had a bad day at the office here, last Sunday - the officiating has not been good lately

[StorminMormon86]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

[Red_One43]

Here's the Gronk play from two different angles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIoNTSmxP7E

If you freeze that at 0:35 seconds, you will see that Gronk is not even close to being out of bounds when Hall comes up to the threesome.

Hall was in perfect position come across Gronks body and go for the strip. So, as I said before, the didn't want to "pile on" and get a penalty theory goes out the window.
Also, it is Wilson that makes the tackle - not Hall. Although Hal did recover to be there if Gronk didn't go down.

This is not about hating. It is about legitimate criticism of a player failing to make a play for no reason and providing evidence for those who continue to make excuses for this type of play.

As I raised in my original question about this play, is this they type of effort that we want to see in our players?

[SkinsJock]

given the play we've seen FOR THE MOST PART from Hall - I'm glad he's a part of our secondary

hopefully he's here next year too

[StorminMormon86]

This is not about hating. It is about legitimate criticism of a player failing to make a play for no reason and providing evidence for those who continue to make excuses for this type of play.

As I raised in my original question about this play, is this they type of effort that we want to see in our players?

+1

You basically took the words out of my mouth, thank you.

[Red_One43]

given the play we've seen FOR THE MOST PART from Hall - I'm glad he's a part of our secondary

hopefully he's here next year too

Given the options that were available - spend big bucks to get Asomugha or Jonathan Joseph or keep a inconsistent (which means sometimes effective) cover guy who arguably won at least two games singledhandly last year. I think that it was wise to save the money and keep Hall for this year and wait for other options like draft our own or get Grimes this year.

Moving forward, Hall is young at 28 and has the talent to be an effective Cover 2 guy, but because he is not one of the better cover guys in man for man, he limits what you can do with your defense - particularly how you rush the passer. Check out the Texans rise to the Number 2 defense - you can bet Joseph had a lot to do with that. How long is Hall going to be that stop gap? Before that play, I could see him being welcomed to come back. What I am getting at is - is that play the straw that broke the camel's back?

When you look at Fletcher, you know your young guys are going to learn good work ethics - Fetcher is the model for your young guys to follow. Do you want your young guys to follow the leadership of D Hall? That one play signified that D. Hall should go, but what if D. Hall, who is not talking to the media, looks at that one play and he wakes up and he says I need to shut my mouth and play ball. Yeah, I'd welcome him back in a heart beat. I prefer that the latter happen. Like Gano, there is no need to cut him now - let's see how he responds in these last three games. But, like Gano, I am not getting my hopes up for change, but hey, nothing's impossible.

[Red_One43]

Here's one confirmation of a hold that was committed by the Pats O line but no call made:

Kerrigan bull-rushed rookie RT Nate Solder onto his backside. Solder appeared to drag Kerrigan down with him, which should have been a holding penalty, but Kerrigan landed at Brady’s feet.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... se/?page=2

I saw more than that one, but still can't remember a any flags on the Pats O linemen.

[The Hogster]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

Gano is the only kicker we've got genius.

[Irn-Bru]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

Gano is the only kicker we've got genius.

I think you completely missed his point.

[skinsfan#33]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

Gano is the only kicker we've got genius.

I think you completely missed his point.

I don't think he did, because of he did I did too. I think you missed his point.
Comparing Gano and Hall are apples and oranges. No that is not right it is like comparing an apple and 4 or 5 oranges.

His point was Hall was the best of a group of CB that we have and Gano is the only kicker we have.

You made a bad analogy.

[skinsfan#33]

Here's one confirmation of a hold that was committed by the Pats O line but no call made:

Kerrigan bull-rushed rookie RT Nate Solder onto his backside. Solder appeared to drag Kerrigan down with him, which should have been a holding penalty, but Kerrigan landed at Brady’s feet.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... se/?page=2

I saw more than that one, but still can't remember a any flags on the Pats O linemen.

R143,
The league has special rules for the Pats and other great offenses. One of those rules is holding is allowed.

Conversely, if you're a great pass rusher, the other team is allowed to hold you all day long.

[SkinsJock]

Good players on ALL NFL teams get held a lot without getting the penalty

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME - TO ALL TEAMS

It's a part of the game - enjoy it

the officials have OBVIOUSLY been told by the NFL, NOT to make that call unless it's really bad ... and even then ...

[StorminMormon86]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

Gano is the only kicker we've got genius.

I think you completely missed his point.

I don't think he did, because of he did I did too. I think you missed his point.
Comparing Gano and Hall are apples and oranges. No that is not right it is like comparing an apple and 4 or 5 oranges.

His point was Hall was the best of a group of CB that we have and Gano is the only kicker we have.

You made a bad analogy.

Nope, you missed the point too I guess. There was no analogy. In another thread, he was pissing and moaning about the release of Gano, and in this thread he denounces the posters who spooke out about the ineffective play of D. Hall. And regardless of if it's apples and oranges, they're both rotten and they both suck.

[Irn-Bru]

He's not the best Corner in the leauge. But, he's the BEST WE HAVE. So zip that up. Get yourselves together.

And Gano is the best kicker we have, what's your point?

Gano is the only kicker we've got genius.

I think you completely missed his point.

I don't think he did, because if he did I did too.

Bingo.

SM86's argument is that saying "he's the best we have" isn't a good defense of a player, because that player could still be crap. And that holds true wheter there are no players lower than him on the depth chart (as is the case with Gano) or 5 or 6 below him (as is the case with Hall). If they suck, then they suck.

His point was Hall was the best of a group of CB that we have and Gano is the only kicker we have.

The Hogster was trying to argue that because Hall is the best we have, then fans have no good reason to complain about his level of play. The part about Gano only came up because SM86 used it as a counterexample. He picked Gano because Hogster is hating on him elsewhere on the board, but using Grossman would have worked just as well to make the same point.

You made a bad analogy.

Who did? I didn't make an analogy. I was only the messenger to The Hogster that he had misread or misunderstood SM86's post. And now I'm bringing that message to you.

I only ask that you don't shoot the messenger.

[Red_One43]

London Fletcher was not fined.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ined-7500/

[Countertrey]

London Fletcher was not fined.

Nor was Wilfork... as it should be.

Carter was fined, however... IMO, such calls are a travesty, and are destroying the integrity of the game. Far better to require quarterbacks to wear protective equipment for the knee... which is not only very good, but also does not impair player mobility...

The Rules committee will destroy this game if not brought under control.

The only one who SHOULD have been fined was Hall... with a 5 X multiplier for stupidity.

[StorminMormon86]

The only one who SHOULD have been fined was Hall... with a 5 X multiplier for stupidity.

DING DING DING!!!