The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SGTMcClain wrote:Ok I have had a day to let this sink in and I will say this, Shanahan is creating a culture in DC. Its similar to what what has happened up in New England.

He stood his ground with big Al and while we may not be getting our moneys worth we are getting more out of Haynesworth than we did last year.

He cut 2 underperforming RB's and found a guy in Torrain who is willing to play they way he wants.

He has found a few other guys in Banks and Armstrong who continue to perform much better than anyone could have expected.

Now with McNabb... while I don't agree with the benching, remember when this happened last year and Reid benched McNabb for Kolb, when McNabb returned as the starter he was a much better QB for the rest of the year.

I think what Shanahan is doing is telling the players, this is his team and its his way or the highway. (I could have sworn I saw Kyle mouth "what the hell his he doing" on the sideline after one of McNabb's plays) I think it was gutless to throw McNabb under the bus twice in two different ways in two different press conferences but it is what it is. Bottom line is he is getting results and we are a better team then we have been in years with Shanahan as our head coach. It may be uncomfortable for a few years as we get the complete team he feels he needs to take us all the way though.

Interesting point. (Nice post, and welcome to the boards!)

I can understand this point of view and what Snout writes above, and in fact I sympathize with a lot of it. I don't necessarily agree with benching McNabb, but I'm also content to leave that to the coaches.

The one point that I can't really get over is the face that Shanahan is presenting to the media and fans (and, to whatever degree we can witness, also to the players). There's a chance that he told the truth in his press conferences but I don't think it's likely. The way he's backtracked and changed his story really bugs me. It's a character issue.

Now Shanahan has, as far as I know, a long history of being a good coach, so one decision and press conference can't undo those years of integrity. It does, however, set me on edge, and I'm not happy about that.

Do we buy into the belief that Shanahan is expecting the DC fandom to faithfully follow and accept his every word to the same level as it was accepted in Denver?

I don't have a problem with anything that Mike and the coaches and FO (which he is a part of) have done up until now

I still think that Haynesworth let himself and the franchise down and deserved to get treated badly because he brought all of that on himself and never made an effort to be a part of the defense - he felt it was all about himself and he got treated accordingly

I still think that bringing in McNabb was the right move AND hated what we saw from him during this game - even though he is playing behind the possibly worst line in the NFL, McNabb did not look at all good on Sunday


STILL - In order to keep the team together Mike has got to straighten this mess out, and quickly


this offensive line is the root of all our problems here - except for Williams & he's just begining, we have nobody starting that could make most teams as a back up

I understand that we are coming off a 4-12 year but the reason we are in this mess is that Snyder has assembled the oldest group of players in the NFL and Bruce & Mike are trying to make things better but it will take time
- HOWEVER, lying is not a part of the recipe

for all our sakes I hope that this BS is not what is going on between the coaches and players - I don't care what the media reports or if Mike behaves like Bill B - he better make sure the players are with him or all hell will break loose here

Did anyone watch the postgame presser and then watch this one besides me? THE EXCUSES AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO BEING RELATED!!!!

Sunday nite he said McNabb wasn't familar enough with the terminology and Rex was to run the 2min drill.

No hint of previous injury (which was stressed subesquently on Monday)

No hint of an out of shape QB (which was stressed on Monday. Additionally, big Al wasn't even allowed to PRACTICE with the team out of shape, but McNabb's able to start for 8 weeks? He's heathy enough to take hits for 58 minutes, but can't finish the game?)

Almost sat McNabb, talked to him about it Tuesday, but not listed ANYWHERE that I saw (please illustrate contrary, and I'll retract).

Rex, who hasn't played since week 4 pre-season, was a better option than McNabb (should explain itself)

If there are people who want to gobble up everything that Shanahan spews out, then more power to you, but it's not going to ride with me. Critical thought is needed here to be intelligent, and if it's not obvious that something's hanky here, then maybe it's not me with the learning disability after all.

Most of the players on the defense came out and said AH needed to be here and were, for the most part, supportive of Shanahan.

But he needs to make sure there's no fissure in the locker room over the Debacle in Detroit.

We are better off with this new group managing & coaching - far better off - look at the big picture, take off the blinders & see what is happening not what suits your doubting agenda

Shanahan needs to get control of himself and his players - I could care less about how the media wants to spin this

I think these next few days between the coaches and the players will be very important and we are V lucky that we are not playing this week


does anyone have any doubt that McNabb is the starting QB? I think he is BUT it will be very important going forward that the players (including McNabb) feel confident in their HC and I'm going to be interested in how that plays out


I'm not gobbling up everything that Shanahan "spews" out and I'm uncomforatable with how it looks but I'm not accepting that it's all the way that some here think either - I prefer to make my own decisions, thanks

SkinsJock wrote:We are better off with this new group managing & coaching - far better off - look at the big picture, take off the blinders & see what is happening not what suits your doubting agenda

Shanahan needs to get control of himself and his players - I could care less about how the media wants to spin this

I think these next few days between the coaches and the players will be very important and we are V lucky that we are not playing this week


does anyone have any doubt that McNabb is the starting QB? I think he is BUT it will be very important going forward that the players (including McNabb) feel confident in their HC and I'm going to be interested in how that plays out


I'm not gobbling up everything that Shanahan "spews" out and I'm uncomforatable with how it looks but I'm not accepting that it's all the way that some here think either - I prefer to make my own decisions, thanks

I see you're indirectly responding to me, so I'll rebut. The gobbling wasn't actually directed towards you.

I am going off what I've seen in his pressers and what words that have come from Mike Shanahan himself, so hardly is the media influencing my opinion of this past week's benching.

And I know for a fact that this is causing some sort of questioning of some degree in the locker room. It's human nature to question what doesn't make sense for someone with critical thought. Some people may not have that higher level thought process, but I can't believe that the 53 guys in the locker room don't have that higher critical thought capacity.

And I'm not worried about McNabb starting weeks 10-17. I'm worried about the 2nd and 3rd that we traded for him will be a waste when he's not even here when we pony up that 3rd this offseason, and debacles like this surely can help it become a reality.

I don't like what we are seeing but I'm hoping that Shanahan and McNabb will be able to go forward from this

McNabb has to know from the film that he had a really bad day and Shanahan should have known that Rex was not the right choice - it's over

I do not agree that the locker room is in disaray over this - we shall see


testing times - when the stuff hits the fan or the going gets tough ... the tough get going


I still think we're better off with these guys in charge here

Except for Coach Zorn I think pretty much all coach's lie. MS is just bad at it.

He is also just a 500 coach with out John Elway. This is still major improvement over what we had. I also think he is full of himself.

I think #5 has been making plenty of mistakes and deserved to be benched just not with a minute fifty left. He almost got Rex killed. You can't ask a cold back up to come in there and march us down the field with no time outs and no blocking. You only do that if #5 is injured and you have no choice.

Thing is...We are playing up to par. We are a 500 team with a 500 coach. It might get better with a little more luck.

Skinsfan55 wrote:
The guy is the best quarterback the Redskins have had in 25 years,

And that is where you need to put on the brakes.

Although I understand what you are saying, we need to judge DMc as he is now, and not what he was with PHILLY (because if that isn't the case, we would have to consider Brunell). I would put Mark Rypien and (if you count it) Theismann absolutely above DMc. There is the arguement for Trent Green and Brad Johnson (if you take the Brad Johnson we had when he lead us into the playoffs) also -- but those are tough calls.

A Head Coach should know better than to either

1) CREATE UNNECESSARY DISTRACTIONS

or worse

2) LOSE the CONDIDENCE and TRUST of players and fans.

We have one of the worst OLs in the NFL. It is next to impossible to succeed as a QB with such a bunch of clowns "protecting" him or opening holes for RBs.

If they wanted to do something constructive, they should have run to grab the best OL available in Free Agency or even NOW. Instead, they are bringing J. Russell for an interview. What message does that send to players and fans??? See 1) and 2) above for a clue.

Shanny

I honestly believe he has the team's best interest at heart. I think he is trying to break the previous "locker-room" attitude our guys have. He is trying to build a tough team, where only the best play, IF they earn it. And no one is safe/or treated with preference whether he is a monster probowler or proven/veteran winner. He is trying to establish his own way of how his players play and conduct themselves. I love how Dmac plays. Honestly I could not believe he was pulled, but in retrospect, Shanny did him a huge favor. He would've gotten hurt if he stayed in. (yah, weak, I know, lol, that is the only ray of sunshine I could see).

We as a franchise have been complacent for far too long, like it or not, we have Shanny. He will mold and shape this team to how he likes it. We have no input on the direction he is taking, we are all just along for the ride. Dmac has NOT signed an extension, and if he was going to sign, he would've done so already. I think Shanny is preparing us for life without #5. I think after what has happened this sunday, Dmac will definitely NOT extend with us. I somewhat agree with what Shanny is trying to achieve, I'd rather have a young hungry guy who will scratch and claw his way to prove himself than a proven vet.

I don't agree that it's a given that McNabb will not be here next year - we don't really know what's going on here - it certainly looks terrible but we don't know

I think that McNabb and Mike Shanahan have a better understanding than it appears and I think that Shanahan is going to be hard at work here improving as many positions on offense as we can

we need a QB, RB, #1WR, LG, C, RG and LT

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:This is just getting worse and worse. Chris Motensen comes out and says the Redskins disappointment with McNabb is the worst kept secret in the league, Shanny benches a Hall of Fame quarterback with two min to go... because apparently he's not studying or practicing hard enough.

The guy is the best quarterback the Redskins have had in 25 years, the Redskins finally are showing signs of progress, establishing credibility...

and Shanahan panicks, burns the goodwill he's built and sabotages the team's newfound chemistry.

This is what is killing me!!!! I agree 100%

Totally, I mean, I never expected the Redskins to be great this season, maybe 9-7at BEST and that was fine... but this is the worst thing Shanahan could have done. He's taken the team for a huge step backwards.

How has the team taken a huge step backwards? It is possible that McNabb, now feeling pressure, does a better job in preparing for games and plays at a higher level? Any QB playing at his level this season would be subject to scrutiny.

Someone needed to light that fire. It was just bad timing.

What is it with ex-coaches looking like they've completely lost their marbles when they return to coaching? Gibbs came off as a bit retarded too his 2nd time around.

Yet another version ... this one by Kyle:

Shanahan's son weighs in on McNabb benching

Washington Redskins offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan weighed in on the benching of Donovan McNabb today according to Jason Reid of the Washington Post.

Shanahan said McNabb was informed early last week of the possibility he could be removed from the game because of his performance.

Speaking with reporters after practice Tuesday at Redskins Park, Kyle Shanahan made a point of addressing McNabb's supposed lack of conditioning, extending the interview session after a senior team employee attempted to end things.

"I do want to clear up, though, what I saw yesterday on the cardiovascular stuff. I think that came off wrong for him [McNabb]," Shanahan said. "It came down to last week, when on Monday and Tuesday, we were gonna, because of his hamstring issues, we were deciding that hey, 'This guy's hurting.'

"We know he won't take himself out, [but] we don't think he should play. We gotta rest him. We'll get him better for the rest of the year. Don being the competitor that he is, he came in and said hey, 'I will rise to the occasion. I will play.' And he talked us into it. We said, 'Hey, we understand we're gonna let you go. But if we do feel you're struggling in the game [because of injuries] ... we're going to have to go in a different direction.'"

There has been much media speculation about Kyle Shanahan's relationship with McNabb, but Kyle said everything is fine.

"Donovan is used to that stuff. He's a big person and that's all speculation," Kyle said. "Rex and him went out for beers last night and they invited me."

McNabb works hard, Kyle said.

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/t ... fault.aspx

markshark84 wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:
The guy is the best quarterback the Redskins have had in 25 years,

And that is where you need to put on the brakes.

Although I understand what you are saying, we need to judge DMc as he is now, and not what he was with PHILLY (because if that isn't the case, we would have to consider Brunell). I would put Mark Rypien and (if you count it) Theismann absolutely above DMc. There is the arguement for Trent Green and Brad Johnson (if you take the Brad Johnson we had when he lead us into the playoffs) also -- but those are tough calls.

Theisman? Mayyyyyybe... except... who was the quarterback if you go back 25 years???

Rypien? No way... he was purely the result of a system that he was drafted to take advantage of... big arm... sound game management skills... and the best offensive line EVER to play the game to give him allllll day to wait for receivers.

What happened to Rypien when he left?

Brad Johnson's arm was nearly completely shot when he got to us. Trent Green? started how many games for us??? Sorry... he does not count. Perhaps, had he stayed, he would have become what they thought he could... perhaps he would not have suffered that catastrophic injury that propelled a backwater backup to a Hall of Fame career...

Personally, I think you need to go back 38 years to find a better quarterback... McNabb, warts and all, is the best QB we have had since Jurgy. I just don't know how long he will last behind this line, which, at this time, seems even worse than last year.

Countertrey wrote:
McNabb, warts and all, is the best QB we have had since Jurgy. I just don't know how long he will last behind this line, which, at this time, seems even worse than last year.

I can't believe that somebody just wrote this. He's terrible. McNabb's time in DC is over....somebody call the time of death.

Countertrey wrote:I just don't know how long he will last behind this line, which, at this time, seems even worse than last year.

Amen.

VetSkinsFan wrote:If anyone can enlighten me on how this can actually be plausible (no, we're not talkin winning the $300M lottery on $1 theory possible, but actually plausible, then I'm all ears. Until then, I'm openly questioning Mike AND Kyle on their mental competency after this final straw(exaggeration for effect ONLY on last statement.).

I'm on the other side of those other issues you rattled off. I think they've made good decisions all along. We're not a playoff team yet and we're not going to be from where we were in one year, they're making rational decisions to make us better...

...but, I'm one hundred percent with you on this decision. It was a boner decision when they made it and it is now. To bring a cold player off the bench at that point is just inexplicable. Besides, McNabb was running for his life the whole game. He had that one horrible decision on the INT, but the rest of the game he kept us in it. It makes no sense in any way other then playing for a draft pick.

Just a few posts above in this thread, we had a statement from Kyle Shanahan. Now, that statement is contradicted by Macnab himself in an interview:

Redskins' McNabb says physically he was fine to finish game

ASHBURN, Va. -- On Day 3 of the Washington Redskins' attempt to explain the benching of Donovan McNabb, the head coach's son gave it a try. He was doing a decent job -- until he threw in a new wrinkle that only added to the confusion.

Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan said Tuesday that McNabb was told in advance of the possibility of getting pulled from the game if coaches felt the veteran quarterback was struggling.

McNabb went on the radio and immediately claimed otherwise, saying: "I didn't hear that part."


And, by the way, this just happened to be the day the Redskins decided to bring in JaMarcus Russell for a workout. The former Oakland Raiders quarterback was one of many out-of-work players getting a look from the coaching staff.

The best news for the Redskins was everyone then skidaddled out of town for an off week vacation. The five-day break is exactly what's needed to settle things down after a dizzying 72 hours of quarterback drama that began when McNabb was pulled in the final 2 minutes of Sunday's 37-25 loss to the Detroit Lions.

...

Read the full story:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... inish-game

So, somebody is LYING, I wonder who?

This is a prime example of what I mean and I'll restate what I said with Haynesworth:

Rarely is one party completely innocent in a situation.

Kyle's not been around long enough (and I have not followed him in the least) to have a reputation to influence the situation.

Mike has been known to be a little bit of a hardhead and totalitarian in his coaching style.

McNabb, to my recollection, has NEVER been a drama queen or caught up in anything that could lead me to believe that he's the root cause of all the incongruencies. Even changing teams, people's character don't normally change, or people wouldn't have been opposed to TO, Merriman, Pacman, R Moss, and many others.

Considering all the above, somethin ain't right.

I think that Mike made a terrible decision and then compounded it with his "explanation" - let's face it, he lied - bad boy

doesn't matter to me - as long as Shanahan, McNabb and the other players and coaches "handle this", take the bye week 'off' and then come out together to play and beat the Eagles on Monday, 11/15

I just hope that Mike has not lost the confidence of McNabb or his players (well, 52 of them - who cares about the slob)


players that come in here like Losman & Russell were obviously scheduled BEFORE last Sunday
as many issues as we have at as many positions of need, I hope these guys are always trying to find players that can help

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Countertrey wrote:I just don't know how long he will last behind this line, which, at this time, seems even worse than last year.

Amen.

actually this makes the "switch" an even worse call, because there are very few QBs that could be as good as McNabb behind this line

I do think that this group is even worse than last year