The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

chiefhog44 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I could care less what Mike says to the media or the fans. All that matters to me is how he and his coaches and players communicate and play

McNabb had a really bad day - he's still the starting QB and if he's on the same page as Mike & Kyle, I could care less what the coach says or if he's lying or not

I just want this QB to pick his game up and have confidence in both the HC and the OC AND for both the HC and OC to have confidence in him - he's the best option by far - I do know that we now know that Rex needs an awful lot of help and that Mike is not going to have much confidence in his ability to get the job done - ESPECIALLY behind that atrocious offensive line


I'm hoping that Mike has Donovan and the other players and coaches on the same page and that they understand what is happening - I could care less what the media or some fans think about this

Maybe I can't communicate this as well as you just did to some, but I agree 100% with what you said. Who cares WHAT he said to the media, whether it was a lie or not. He's not going to come out and tell the truth just so that some guy named vetskins feels like it's on the up and up.

Yup, call me crazy for expecting honesty and integrity from anyone and everyone. I mean, why should we believe anything the coaches say? The fans, as stupid and crazy as people like vetskins are, DO actually pay their salaries, b/c if it wasn't for the fans, the game wouldn't exist. Really what was I thinking

VetSkinsFan wrote:... call me crazy for expecting honesty and integrity from anyone and everyone. I mean, why should we believe anything the coaches say? The fans, as stupid and crazy as people like vetskins are, DO actually pay their salaries, b/c if it wasn't for the fans, the game wouldn't exist.

I don't think that anyone is "crazy" for "expecting honesty and integrity from anyone and everyone" - I just don't think that's realistic - good idea, just not happening

we obviously have a HC that should not be allowed to speak or communicate - what we have heard from him recently is just mind boggling

the only thing I care about this HC is that he has good communication between himself, his coaches & players - I'm hoping that he has not lost the players over this - while I think it looks bad I just think the players are still on his side - except for the fat slob but he's just playing out the string & who cares - he obviously doesn't

I do understand that the fans deserve a lot but to imagine that the HCs like Belichick and Cowher and Landry and Lombardi will never lie or cheat or do or say anything to mislead everyone outside of their locker rooms is just not realistic

if the fans think that this HC is bad then they will voice their displeasure on national TV - I don't think that many will agree with you


This HC has a lot of work to do in the next 12 days but if this group gets out on the field with that terrible offensive line and manages to find a way to beat the Eagles on national TV - then this will not go away but it will just be another step towards putting this franchise back on top

SkinsJock wrote:This HC has a lot of work to do in the next 12 days but if this group gets out on the field with that terrible offensive line and manages to find a way to beat the Eagles on national TV - then this will not go away but it will just be another step towards putting this franchise back on top

IF they do, you are right.

IF they don't, can you imagine the exponential growth in this mess???

Big IF, I would say. Interestingly, the outcome of that game will in all likelihood lie in the ability to have a good play for our OL. Other than getting healthier, recover from some injuries and some urgent coaching adjustments, I really do not know what else can we do with these OL guys.

Rams and Lions have shown ad nauseaum that if you bring the kitchen sink in a blitz, the Skins cannot handle it. They have shown that a strong DL can rush them with 3 or 4 players only. They have shown that if a team beats up MacNabb for an entire game, he will make mistakes at the end (perhaps the HC might too).

Interesting IF.

There have been NUMEROUS people who have voiced their confusion on this past week's 'decision making' and subsequent explanation including NFL, ESPN, and CSN analysts (primarily made up of former players, which gives them SOME credibility to me in the inner workings of the NFL) in addition to the fans who subscribe here. Last time I checked, network televion (sunday nite football channel escapes me), NFL, ESPN are all national venues and they're pretty much in unison.


Now I'm not saying fire Shanahan, but I do want his past handling of personnel to be in the past and handle them as the professionals they are (yes, even big Al deserves to be handled with respect, as all players should be alloted SOME level of respect due to professionalism that SHOULD be used in all situations). My way or the highway won't work. And when you give in after my way or the highway, it just looks pathetic.

I think that Shanahan and his players will show everyone that Shanahan's perceived way of badly managing this group is fine with them

unless he blows it before the game I doubt that many fans will agree with those here & in the national media & show their displeasure on national TV
- we shall see though



you're right RiC - this next game, 11/15, is now even bigger and could not be scripted better

Shanahan is "all in" as the saying goes - my bet is he wins

SkinsJock wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:... call me crazy for expecting honesty and integrity from anyone and everyone. I mean, why should we believe anything the coaches say? The fans, as stupid and crazy as people like vetskins are, DO actually pay their salaries, b/c if it wasn't for the fans, the game wouldn't exist.

I don't think that anyone is "crazy" for "expecting honesty and integrity from anyone and everyone" - I just don't think that's realistic - good idea, just not happening

we obviously have a HC that should not be allowed to speak or communicate - what we have heard from him recently is just mind boggling

the only thing I care about this HC is that he has good communication between himself, his coaches & players - I'm hoping that he has not lost the players over this - while I think it looks bad I just think the players are still on his side - except for the fat slob but he's just playing out the string & who cares - he obviously doesn't

I do understand that the fans deserve a lot but to imagine that the HCs like Belichick and Cowher and Landry and Lombardi will never lie or cheat or do or say anything to mislead everyone outside of their locker rooms is just not realistic

if the fans think that this HC is bad then they will voice their displeasure on national TV - I don't think that many will agree with you


This HC has a lot of work to do in the next 12 days but if this group gets out on the field with that terrible offensive line and manages to find a way to beat the Eagles on national TV - then this will not go away but it will just be another step towards putting this franchise back on top

Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

chiefhog44 wrote:Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

There is somebody else in this board who still argues that there were no lies

But to answer your question: There is NOTHING wrong with lying other than the fact that if you are caught in one as a grown up, your credibility and trust are affected negatively, let alone be the subject of well earned national criticism and ridicule.

No, nothing wrong with lying. Richard Nixon was right all along.

Chefhog to run for office VERY SOON. The only questions: Senate or Congress?

Redskin in Canada wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

There is somebody else in this board who still argues that there were no lies

But to answer your question: There is NOTHING wrong with lying other than the fact that if you are caught in one as a grown up, your credibility and trust are affected negatively, let alone be the subject of well earned national criticism and ridicule.

No, nothing wrong with lying. Richard Nixon was right all along.

Chefhog to run for office VERY SOON. The only questions: Senate or Congress?

I could care less about a coach lying to me. All that matters is that he is not lying to McNabb behind closed doors, and there is NO way to if he is or not, so your credability and trust answer is not an argument.

chiefhog44 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

There is somebody else in this board who still argues that there were no lies

But to answer your question: There is NOTHING wrong with lying other than the fact that if you are caught in one as a grown up, your credibility and trust are affected negatively, let alone be the subject of well earned national criticism and ridicule.

No, nothing wrong with lying. Richard Nixon was right all along.

Chefhog to run for office VERY SOON. The only questions: Senate or Congress?

I could care less about a coach lying to me. All that matters is that he is not lying to McNabb behind closed doors, and there is NO way to if he is or not, so your credability and trust answer is not an argument.

So you're suggesting that he, Kyle, and McNabb are all lying to the media but on the straight and narrow behind closed doors? Doesn't sound likely to me.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

There is somebody else in this board who still argues that there were no lies

But to answer your question: There is NOTHING wrong with lying other than the fact that if you are caught in one as a grown up, your credibility and trust are affected negatively, let alone be the subject of well earned national criticism and ridicule.

No, nothing wrong with lying. Richard Nixon was right all along.

Chefhog to run for office VERY SOON. The only questions: Senate or Congress?

I could care less about a coach lying to me. All that matters is that he is not lying to McNabb behind closed doors, and there is NO way to if he is or not, so your credability and trust answer is not an argument.

So you're suggesting that he, Kyle, and McNabb are all lying to the media but on the straight and narrow behind closed doors? Doesn't sound likely to me.

doesn't sound likely, you are correct, but I'm not going to just trust that McNabb didn't hear them say this. Most likely, a conversation was had early in the week (which Donovan has admitted) and the coaches discussed his injuries and how they were afraid that it was effecting his play (which he admitted as well), and that they wanted to see if he would sit that week (which I think Donovan admitted to as well). The difference of opinion came next. Shanny said that he warned McNabb that they would have to bench him if it effected his play and Mcnabb said that he didn't hear that. I would imagine that it was somewhere in the middle (as most arguments are) and that Shanny didn't come right out and say benching, but said it in a round about way or in Shanny's mind, the reason for bringing it up at all was to discuss the possibility. In Shanny's mind he mentioned it out loud, and in Donovan's mind, he didn't. Let's just hope that they both agree on a common thread here and move on. We have two HUGE games coming up against the Eagles and the Titans. We need to split.

chiefhog44 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Right. Sometimes the truth should not be told, and my point is that it clearly wasn't...SO WHAT?

There is somebody else in this board who still argues that there were no lies

But to answer your question: There is NOTHING wrong with lying other than the fact that if you are caught in one as a grown up, your credibility and trust are affected negatively, let alone be the subject of well earned national criticism and ridicule.

No, nothing wrong with lying. Richard Nixon was right all along.

Chefhog to run for office VERY SOON. The only questions: Senate or Congress?

I could care less about a coach lying to me. All that matters is that he is not lying to McNabb behind closed doors, and there is NO way to if he is or not, so your credability and trust answer is not an argument.

So you're suggesting that he, Kyle, and McNabb are all lying to the media but on the straight and narrow behind closed doors? Doesn't sound likely to me.

doesn't sound likely, you are correct, but I'm not going to just trust that McNabb didn't hear them say this. Most likely, a conversation was had early in the week (which Donovan has admitted) and the coaches discussed his injuries and how they were afraid that it was effecting his play (which he admitted as well), and that they wanted to see if he would sit that week (which I think Donovan admitted to as well). The difference of opinion came next. Shanny said that he warned McNabb that they would have to bench him if it effected his play and Mcnabb said that he didn't hear that. I would imagine that it was somewhere in the middle (as most arguments are) and that Shanny didn't come right out and say benching, but said it in a round about way or in Shanny's mind, the reason for bringing it up at all was to discuss the possibility. In Shanny's mind he mentioned it out loud, and in Donovan's mind, he didn't. Let's just hope that they both agree on a common thread here and move on. We have two HUGE games coming up against the Eagles and the Titans. We need to split.

The part I have a hard time buyin is that you're not exactly clear on the possibility of benching your starting QB. I don't think that's a subject that a coach would let go without knowing 100% that they got their point across.

so .... are they benching him?

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And how did that decision work out? 1 play, and 7 for the lions.

Did you REALLY think either one of them was going to drive us down the field for the game winning Touchdown? If so, please let me know because I've got a great bridge in NYC to sell you the rights too... REAL CHEAP.

Absolutely, McNabb had a shot, but not a cold Rex Grossman. But it shouldn't have been that situation to begin with. If we had just punted rather than going for it from our own 20 with two time outs and the two minute warning, then we would have only needed to drive into field goal range to tie the game. And that would have been after a Brandon Banks punt return, so who knows how far we would have had to drive. Not punting was the second most inexplicably idiotic call the coach made Sunday.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:I didn't want Donovan in DC to begin with. Once you wear Eagle Green, Giant Blue, Cowboy Blue, or Patriot Blue I don't ever want you on my team. Period. I don't care if you can guarantee me a Super Bowl victory; I don't want anything to do with you.

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:Hell, Gibbs threatened to cut EVERY PLAYER ON THE TEAM after the week 11 loss to the Cowboys in 1991. You can't do that anymore and we're much worse off for that.

Don't know who told you that, because that is simply not true. And if any QB in the league ever called out linemen publicly for playing poorly, they would never play again, because no one would ever block for them. That has to be the most idiotic suggestion I have ever seen a fan of any team make. It's one thing to tell a guy in the huddle or on the sidelines to get his act together and man up, but to do it publicly after the game? Get real!

Redskins_Fanatic wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:You mean the 1991 Super Bowl Champion Washington Redskins who went 17-2 in 1991, who broke the NFL scoring record that year, blowing out almost everyone they played ... the best season for a Redskin Team ever ? That team?

For your information, week 11 we beat Atlanta 56-17, when we played the Cowboys in week 13, we lost 24-21 .... making us 11-1 for the year.

I DOUBT Gibbs threatened to cut everyone on the team at halftime with the score of 14-7

Where do you come up with this nonsense?

My apologies... it was after the Week 13 loss to Dallas. From what I have read and heard over time, the week after the Dallas loss the team was absolutely flat in practice. Apparently on Wednesday of that week Gibbs called all the players on the practice field into a huddle and threatened to cut each and every one of them if they didn't get their stuff straightened out.

I'm well aware of the record and stats of that team. I agree it's the best Redskins team of all time. I also know that in Gibbs' place I probably would have blown a gasket after that week 13 loss to Dallas. Then again, Gibbs himself cost us the week 16 game against Philly by taking too many of the starters out in the second half.

Dude! We had home field sewn up, and had already lost the perfect season when he waited almost until the 4th quarter to bring Ricky Irvins into the Cowpies loss. It would have been monumentally stupid to not rest our starters against the Smeagols. As it was we only lost that game on a last-minute FG, but we won the Lombardi. Had we beaten the Pies, then I might have considered beating Philly a necessity, but other than that, no way do you risk injury in a non-factor game.

Countertrey wrote:With this offensive line, when going against a particularly strong D line, they'd better be asking D Mac to reverse the order of reads... and providing a lot of quick hit pass routes. They also needed to start moving him out of the pocket a lot sooner than they did... to force the tackles to move laterally more.

You can't build a deep strike passing game without a rock solid o-line. Period. You MUST do something to help the O line out.

Screen passes.

Shabutie wrote:You don't think the Redskins leading the NFL in turnovers forced, or having one of the best all-around special teams units in the league make any difference from last year? How about the improved coaching and better receiving core?

Turnovers and special teams are a big part of it (minus the blocked FG against Houston) Better coaching? After the decision to go for it on 4th down, 2 TOs and 2 minute warning, from our own 20, and then yanking McNabb, I'm not sure you can make that argument. Better receiving corps (note the spelling)? I'll take Armstrong over ARE, but the rest are either the same or worse, IMO, so that's a push.

Kilmer72 wrote:I would also say that if the only stat that matters is wins then Rex had a SB win so what does this all mean?

He did? When was that? And does that mean that Peyton Manning doesn't have a SB win yet?

Shabutie wrote:He sacked himself twice by tripping in the backfield (That is ALWAYS the QBs fault)

Dude, I've seen you say this twice now. How is it his fault when Rabach stepped on his foot (twice! on one of the plays)?

some of the posts here this week remind me of this HC

sometimes I think he's really good and then he goes for the 4th and 4, then he puts in Grossman instead of McNabb and finally he basically lies to everyone - just amazing


hopefully he's got everything straight with his coaches and players - I could care less about anything else

Shanahan's not the man that I thought he was - I certainly hope he's the HC and football savvy guy that I think he is

Anyone else watching the lions game? Making the loss seem a little easier to swallow seeing how well they are playing the jets

The Lions are a lot better team than their record or haven't you been really seeing this?

The Lions should have won the game today and I think they are a better team than the Jets - there are a lot of teams in the NFL right now that are better than their record would indicate and a lot that are not as good

got to love this stuff

Suh is really an issue... if you don't have any decent guards on your team (Redskins), they are really going to trouble you. Their other DT is pretty good too.