The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

chiefhog44 wrote:Tebow may be the one player that will revolutionize the game. If a team is willing to risk a huge contract running AND passing the rock every play, it could be just what the Wildcat requires.

I've also heard that the Fun 'n Gun is going to be huge.

Countertrey wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Tebow may be the one player that will revolutionize the game. If a team is willing to risk a huge contract running AND passing the rock every play, it could be just what the Wildcat requires.

I've also heard that the Fun 'n Gun is going to be huge.

thanks trey! I needed that

Countertrey wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Tebow may be the one player that will revolutionize the game. If a team is willing to risk a huge contract running AND passing the rock every play, it could be just what the Wildcat requires.

I've also heard that the Fun 'n Gun is going to be huge.

I'm not sure I get it. The fun and gun did not work in the NFL. The Wildcat clearly has, and I am suggesting that I believe he might be a candidate to run it. Anyway, not sure I get what your saying.

I'm saying that Tebow is not a first, and probably not a second, day pick. It is certainly possible that he will be a free agent at the end of the third day. The wildcat, outside of Miami, is still a gimick, not bread and butter. I just don't see Tebow "revolutionizing" the game any more than "the Old Ball Coach" did. He is a very good runner for a Quarterback (which is not equal to a very good runner for a running back) and does not have much of a gun... and a very slow release.

Countertrey wrote: He is a very good runner for a Quarterback

However, note that in college his success running the ball wasn't due to speed like Young or Vick; he's actually not very fast. His success was primarily because he'd run people over. He won't be doing that in the NFL.

I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

PulpExposure wrote:

Countertrey wrote: He is a very good runner for a Quarterback

However, note that in college his success running the ball wasn't due to speed like Young or Vick; he's actually not very fast. His success was primarily because he'd run people over. He won't be doing that in the NFL.

Which is precisely why I added "(which is not equal to a very good runner for a running back)". The two that you raise (Vick and Young) were (are) very skilled technical runners. They both had the strength to break tackles, but they also had the speed to get to the corner, and the agility to make players miss.

There is clearly some magical thinking here about Tebow's NFL potential. He may have a role somewhere... but it's important to remember that the history of the NFL is littered with the short and non-existant careers of Heisman Trophy winners.

Countertrey wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Countertrey wrote: He is a very good runner for a Quarterback

However, note that in college his success running the ball wasn't due to speed like Young or Vick; he's actually not very fast. His success was primarily because he'd run people over. He won't be doing that in the NFL.

Which is precisely why I added "(which is not equal to a very good runner for a running back)". The two that you raise (Vick and Young) were (are) very skilled technical runners. They both had the strength to break tackles, but they also had the speed to get to the corner, and the agility to make players miss.

There is clearly some magical thinking here about Tebow's NFL potential. He may have a role somewhere... but it's important to remember that the history of the NFL is littered with the short and non-existant careers of Heisman Trophy winners.

Exactly. He does a lot of things well. He probably doesn't do anything well ENOUGH to be an effective NFL player.

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

I remind you that 235 lbs in on the small side for a power runner in the NFL and also that Harvin ran a 4.4 at the combine. If Tebow can run a 4.5, he's only a tenth of a second slower than Harvin. Absolutely not.
I know that Tebow is well built and cut, but so are other power runners in the NFL. I agree that Tebow was one of the greatest college players of all time. Still, he was passing to great receivers who were much better than the competition, had great protection from a superior line, and his runners were so good that he often had gaping holes to run through, and, when he didn't, he was able to run over college men of relatively small size with relative ease. Good for him. Unfortumately, in the pro ranks, all of his advantages will disappear. He will have to rely on his arm, which will be less than average among NFL quarterbacks, and his power, which will be about average for NFL powerbacks. I don't see how he can make it. I can't even imagine a coach letting him routinely take long snaps and plunging into the line. Not good for health, you know. At best, he'll be a backup who can be brought in now and then to run the wildcat or he'll be asked to switch his position.

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

the combine is going to be interesting to some here this year

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

HEROHAMO wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

Just FYI, Arrington ran a 4.49 40 at his workout. You think Tebow is as fast as Arrington?

crazyhorse1 wrote:Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Slightly different eras. Hornung would never make it in today's NFL.

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

Just FYI, Arrington ran a 4.49 40 at his workout. You think Tebow is as fast as Arrington?

A 4.49 can be a couple steps ahead of a 4.59.

HEROHAMO wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

Hahaha. Fair point my friend.

Vince Young ran a 4.58 at the Combine in 2006

HEROHAMO wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

Just FYI, Arrington ran a 4.49 40 at his workout. You think Tebow is as fast as Arrington?

A 4.49 can be a couple steps ahead of a 4.59.

That's not a 4.5, as you said above. Basic rounding...4.59 is a 4.6.

I'd be surprised if he ran that, as well.

A tenth of a second is a full step. Do I think Tebow is as fast as Arrington? No. I think that forty time of Arringtons is probably one of his slower times.
I expect Tebow to time in at somewhere between 4.55 to 4.59. Oh and technically a 4.59 is still a 4.5. I dont round up. Neither do the people in the combine.

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I am "guessing" Tebow will at least clock a 4.5 forty yard dash. He is like a Toby Gerheart who can throw. IMHO
Vince Young runs a 4.5 in the forty yard dash. No where near Michael Vick speed like some may think. Mcnabb runs a 4.6-4.7 and I know Tebow is faster then Mcnabb.

I'm guessing that Tebow can't run anywhere near a 4.5 forty. He's strictly a power runner, and absolutely a couple of steps slower than Young. The question is, can he be a power runner in the NFL? I don't think so. Power runners in the NFL tend to also have moves and speed. Nevertheless, I am reminded that I also thought Paul Hornung would never make it in the NFL as a runner-- his power was mediocre, so was his speed, and his cuts were ordinary. Go figure.

Well I respectfully disagree. Lets take a look at the physical side. 6-3 235lbs the dude is ripped. Has a decent arm, less then ideal mechanics and out of this world intangibles.

Lets remember Florida fields the fastest players in the country. Tebow benefits from such a high standard that is set at Florida. One thing I am certain of is he can run with the best of them. I know he is quick, maybe not the fastest but he has good quickness, very good power and mediocre arm and mechanics.

All in all there are far more positives then negatives when talking about Tebow.

Once again drafting Tebow is not my first choice at no.4, nor do I think our F.O. will target him at no.4. But, honestly I could live with it.
Okung and Iupati our my first choices. If not Okung and Tebow sounds not to bad to me.

There is NO WAY that Tebow can run a 4.5 40.

Am I surprised about a Hurricane fan doubting Tebow?

Just FYI, Arrington ran a 4.49 40 at his workout. You think Tebow is as fast as Arrington?

A 4.49 can be a couple steps ahead of a 4.59.

That's not a 4.5, as you said above. Basic rounding...4.59 is a 4.6.

I'd be surprised if he ran that, as well.

You have a good reason to be concerned. There have been many Heisman busts in the past. I dont blame you for that or anyone else who feels the same way.

I just have a "gut" feeling that Tebow will turn out to be a good one. I can envision Tebow on a bootleg then tucking the ball and getting the first down running over some linebacker or a smaller saftie.

HEROHAMO wrote:A tenth of a second is a full step. Do I think Tebow is as fast as Arrington? No. I think that forty time of Arringtons is probably one of his slower times.
I expect Tebow to time in at somewhere between 4.55 to 4.59. Oh and technically a 4.59 is still a 4.5. I dont round up. Neither do the people in the combine.

They don't actually round at the combine to the tenths, they report the hundreths value (and round up/down based upon the thousandths number). And FYI, 4.49 was Arrington's fastest 40 yard dash workout number (the other was 4.54).

Also, you may not use proper rounding, but every credible organization reporting does. Think of it logically; is a 4.59 closer to 4.6 or 4.5? If you're going to talk about 40 yard dash to the tenths of a second, which one would be more accurate to report if someone runs a 4.59? That he ran a 4.5 or a 4.6?

PulpExposure wrote:Also, you may not use proper rounding, but every credible organization reporting does. Think of it logically; is a 4.59 closer to 4.6 or 4.5? If you're going to talk about 40 yard dash to the tenths of a second, which one would be more accurate to report if someone runs a 4.59? That he ran a 4.5 or a 4.6?

As a point of terminology, "rounding" mathematically from 4.59 to tenths of a second is and only can be 4.6, it's unambiguous. To get 4.5 out of 4.59 it would be referred to as "truncation" to tenths of a second.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:Also, you may not use proper rounding, but every credible organization reporting does. Think of it logically; is a 4.59 closer to 4.6 or 4.5? If you're going to talk about 40 yard dash to the tenths of a second, which one would be more accurate to report if someone runs a 4.59? That he ran a 4.5 or a 4.6?

As a point of terminology, "rounding" mathematically from 4.59 to tenths of a second is and only can be 4.6, it's unambiguous. To get 4.5 out of 4.59 it would be referred to as "truncation" to tenths of a second.

Interesting. Thanks. With your corrected verbiage, I suppose I should say that truncation is illogical