The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Eleven teams times 16 games is 176 games. Someone will have to be the winner in each of those games. Of those, roughly a third of the time, those eleven teams will play each other. So roughly 60 times they play each other, and one way or another, someone has to win, barring 60 ties. So there is no way to split up 60 wins among eleven teams and have each of them win only 3 games.

and then there are others that just love to point out how terrible this team is and that is just not really close either - we are managed terribly but we have been and most likely will continue to be a mediocre team

Now, you do understand that mediocre does mean average, right????

If you go back to your 12:57 post you say that you don't think this team is "average". Now you say that they will continue to be mediocre. WTF???

IF you'd try looking at the team a little differently than you have for the past 8 months (or longer) you might see a different team too

you have been against almost everything this team has done this year and primarily in my opinion because you don't know much about this team - yes there are some issues but this team is not "a really bad team" which was your claim

SkinsJock wrote:IF you'd try looking at the team a little differently than you have for the past 8 months (or longer) you might see a different team too

you have been against almost everything this team has done this year and primarily in my opinion because you don't know much about this team - yes there are some issues but this team is not "a really bad team" which was your claim

Clueless

SkinsJock wrote:IF you'd try looking at the team a little differently than you have for the past 8 months (or longer) you might see a different team too

you have been against almost everything this team has done this year and primarily in my opinion because you don't know much about this team - yes there are some issues but this team is not "a really bad team" which was your claim

Is this directed at me? I hope it is, because if so, you are just proving that whomever you are referring to is right.

And it is probably BECAUSE I know this team inside and out. Not the other way around. But I apologize if I have been dead on up to this point in the season.

I love it.

We're all fans... and we're all frustrated. Ultimately, we all want the same thing. Please, keep that in mind as you craft your responses to each other.

markshark84 wrote:Now, you do understand that mediocre does mean average, right????

I love the ???? is that for effect or just ..... never mind

I do understand what you're trying to draw me into here - let me make it a little clearer for those who just do not seem to see things very well OR who have a very biased opinion anyway - in my opinion, we are a mediocre team and I thought we would be 8-8 NOW that was a guess on my part based on a much improved defense - that could have ended up 6-10 or 10-6

HOWEVER I still think we will be closer to the 16th ranked team than the 25th ranked team

my point is only that we are not a "really bad team" as some fans here think - I'll concede that we are not looking really good either but I'm not really into trying to exaggerate like some here

Suh (he's a freaking manimal)...him next to Hanyesworth we would have the most dominate defensive line in football, even with 2 punters at DE. Our strength is defense right now let's build on that. We can resign Soup at a bargin cause noone else will want him and make him a game manager. It's not pretty, it's not vouge (the anit-synder) but it works. Baltimore won the SB in 2000 without scoring an offensive touchdown till week 7. I don't care if Portis doesn't get his 1500 yards and he won't either if we are winning. Play to your strengths....we suck on offense...why try and overhaul a team to score 30+ a game? Suh and some picks spent on OL. It's the most logical, shortest route to achieving success.

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Now, you do understand that mediocre does mean average, right????

I love the ???? is that for effect or just ..... never mind

I do understand what you're trying to draw me into here - let me make it a little clearer for those who just do not seem to see things very well OR who have a very biased opinion anyway - in my opinion, we are a mediocre team and I thought we would be 8-8 NOW that was a guess on my part based on a much improved defense - that could have ended up 6-10 or 10-6

HOWEVER I still think we will be closer to the 16th ranked team than the 25th ranked team

my point is only that we are not a "really bad team" as some fans here think - I'll concede that we are not looking really good either but I'm not really into trying to exaggerate like some here

Well, I guess in your mind, it appears that almost everyone either doesn't seem to see things very well or they are biased against their own team.......hummmm

So I guess you are now retracting your statement and come back to say "we are a mediocre team". Ok, don't change it again. But, oh yes, you do by saying that "we are not a really bad team". So does that make us just a bad team, or perhaps a below average team, or an average team? There is a difference between being mediocre and not being a really bad team.

Now you are saying that we are closer to a 16th ranked team and not the 25th. How do you come up with this statement based on what you have seen on the field this year? You seem to accuse people of not supporting their statements --- what is yours?

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Now, you do understand that mediocre does mean average, right????

I love the ???? is that for effect or just ..... never mind

I do understand what you're trying to draw me into here - let me make it a little clearer for those who just do not seem to see things very well OR who have a very biased opinion anyway - in my opinion, we are a mediocre team and I thought we would be 8-8 NOW that was a guess on my part based on a much improved defense - that could have ended up 6-10 or 10-6

HOWEVER I still think we will be closer to the 16th ranked team than the 25th ranked team

my point is only that we are not a "really bad team" as some fans here think - I'll concede that we are not looking really good either but I'm not really into trying to exaggerate like some here

Well, I guess in your mind, it appears that almost everyone either doesn't seem to see things very well or they are biased against their own team.......hummmm

bad guess - wrong assumption I wonder about people that hum a lot

So I guess you are now retracting your statement and come back to say "we are a mediocre team". Ok, don't change it again. But, oh yes, you do by saying that "we are not a really bad team". So does that make us just a bad team, or perhaps a below average team, or an average team? There is a difference between being mediocre and not being a really bad team.

like a lot of 'stuff' you bring here this is a little confusing to say the least
I'm allowed to think we are not a bad team despite the way things have looked - it's just my opinion and I think our defense will continue to improve as the season goes on
since Snyder took control here, we have had what some would describe as mediocre results and that is what I think we will continue to see until we have a change of culture

Now you are saying that we are closer to a 16th ranked team and not the 25th. How do you come up with this statement based on what you have seen on the field this year? You seem to accuse people of not supporting their statements --- what is yours?

I think that we have seen the worst and I choose to think that we will win a few more games this season and that combined with a bunch of teams that are much worse than our team having bad seasons will mean that we finish in a position that is closer to 16 (middle of the pack) than to 25 which is only 7 from the bottom

boy! this educating stuff can get to you

mweb08 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:If you have a chance for a "CAN'T MISS" lineman, you've got to take him. Could you imagine if we could get a 2nd coming of Chris Samuels and put him at RT? Man that would be nice.

You can't hope for tto much better than Samuels and Jansen in back to back season. We are 68 and 81 with Samuels as our starting LT. The year before we drafted Samuals we had Andy "who the" Heck playing LT and we won the division and a playoff game because we got good QB play from BJ.

In 05 we got good QB play from Brunell and we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game. In 2007 we got good QB play at he end of the season from TC and we went to the playoffs.

Yes, we desperately need OL help, but a good QB can cover up a lot of problems on a team. A great QB can down right take a bad OL to the SB, just like Warner and Big Ben did last year.

You stick Soup on the 91 Skins team and they don't even make the playoffs!

Here, here. You got that straight.

Big Ben is a classic example of a guy who makes plays on his own. He's been sacked and pressured more than Campbell, but doesn't lose sight of his targets down field.

The moment pressure appears, Campbell is looking for his dump off, instead of finding that extra second for a deep target to come open.

The Steelers O-Line is way better than the Skins has been since mid last season. The biggest reason for all the sacks is Big Ben himself. He holds the ball forever.

Also the Cards are a good pass blocking team.

A good O-Line is very important.

The Steelers line is better than our is right now, but not at the beginning of the season or at the end of last year.

The Cards may have the worst OL in football! They can't run and Warner gets hit every play. The only reason they don't lead the league in sacks allowed is baecaus Warner gets rid of the ball so quick.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

mweb08 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:If you have a chance for a "CAN'T MISS" lineman, you've got to take him. Could you imagine if we could get a 2nd coming of Chris Samuels and put him at RT? Man that would be nice.

You can't hope for tto much better than Samuels and Jansen in back to back season. We are 68 and 81 with Samuels as our starting LT. The year before we drafted Samuals we had Andy "who the" Heck playing LT and we won the division and a playoff game because we got good QB play from BJ.

In 05 we got good QB play from Brunell and we went to the playoffs and won a playoff game. In 2007 we got good QB play at he end of the season from TC and we went to the playoffs.

Yes, we desperately need OL help, but a good QB can cover up a lot of problems on a team. A great QB can down right take a bad OL to the SB, just like Warner and Big Ben did last year.

You stick Soup on the 91 Skins team and they don't even make the playoffs!

Here, here. You got that straight.

Big Ben is a classic example of a guy who makes plays on his own. He's been sacked and pressured more than Campbell, but doesn't lose sight of his targets down field.

The moment pressure appears, Campbell is looking for his dump off, instead of finding that extra second for a deep target to come open.

The Steelers O-Line is way better than the Skins has been since mid last season. The biggest reason for all the sacks is Big Ben himself. He holds the ball forever.

Also the Cards are a good pass blocking team.

A good O-Line is very important.

The Steelers line is better than our is right now, but not at the beginning of the season or at the end of last year.

The Cards may have the worst OL in football! They can't run and Warner gets hit every play. The only reason they don't lead the league in sacks allowed is baecaus Warner gets rid of the ball so quick.

Enter Todd Collins

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF you'd try looking at the team a little differently than you have for the past 8 months (or longer) you might see a different team too

you have been against almost everything this team has done this year and primarily in my opinion because you don't know much about this team - yes there are some issues but this team is not "a really bad team" which was your claim

Is this directed at me? I hope it is, because if so, you are just proving that whomever you are referring to is right.

And it is probably BECAUSE I know this team inside and out. Not the other way around. But I apologize if I have been dead on up to this point in the season.

I love it.

wrong again and I'm sorry to not be able to 'prove' anything for you - this was 'directed' at canes

SkinsJock wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF you'd try looking at the team a little differently than you have for the past 8 months (or longer) you might see a different team too

you have been against almost everything this team has done this year and primarily in my opinion because you don't know much about this team - yes there are some issues but this team is not "a really bad team" which was your claim

Is this directed at me? I hope it is, because if so, you are just proving that whomever you are referring to is right.

And it is probably BECAUSE I know this team inside and out. Not the other way around. But I apologize if I have been dead on up to this point in the season.

I love it.

wrong again and I'm sorry to not be able to 'prove' anything for you - this was 'directed' at canes

Wrong again? Are you serious? You sound like a clueless fool in this thread. Seriously, have you read what you typed? You make no point besides saying that this team is as good as you think, but also just as bad, but not really bad. It's comical. Then you contradict yourself. Keep puffing. And the only conclusion you (that we are around a 16 team) made is just flat wrong.

And congrads, Canes.

skinsfan#33 wrote:While I don't think Tim Tebow will ever be a great, I do think he can be good, and I think he would make an impact on this team. Tell me, when was the last time we had a leader on offense, never mind at QB.

Tebow will be successful in the NFL, because of his leadership. I don't know how good he will be, but I guarantee his team, and whatever team drafts him that team will be "his" team, will play above the collective level of their individual tallent.

He is a leader and a winner. I hope we end up with him (and of course we fix the OL too).

I couldn't agree more. It's great when world class skill and leadership come together in one package... a la Peyton Manning, Brett Farve, John Elway, etc... but I've been so wrong in the past when I thought great passers were going to come in and be great QBs in the NFL regardless of the fact that they weren't leaders... a la Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, (insert numerous busts here)... It wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit to have great leader on the field for once, even if he doesn't throw like Peyton...

....attack the post - not the poster Markshark.

It's looking more and more likely that CS will be done for his career. This only cements the need for a LT with our first pick. It is one of the more important positions on the field on offense. If we go another route outside of lineman, then there is absolutely no chance that we have any success next season.

OFFENSE: We need a QB - we also need to ensure that he can do what he needs to do and that entails an effective offensive line that can both create space for the RB and give the QB time to make his reads and throw the ball

DEFENSE: We have some issues here but overall we just need to keep adding players for depth

THE biggest problem in my opinion does not lie with acquiring coaches or players but with who makes the decisions of how well those acquisitions suit the players and coaches who are already here - this is not a fantasy football team which is kind of how it has been managed to date with little to no regard for quality depth at any of the key positions

To say that we need a QB over any other position is agreeing with the ownership. You fail to realize that regardless of who we put back there, we can not protect him. You build a program by building both sides of the line first. Our D line is good enough and we have enough young talent to come in to give the older guys a break. But when you have 3 positions where starters are gone, that is very clear the area where you MUST improve.

At this point, QB is our least concern.

I understand Frank - but the fact remains that it is going to take a while to get the cohesiveness you need to have a good offensive line and while I agree that having both lines be very good is a base for any successful team - at some time we need a very good QB - A really good QB can make a team much better - a really great offensive line with an average QB is not going to translate in my opinion to a high scoring offense

I would like this team to find a great QB in the very near future - having that one great player is the quickest way to improve your offense

HOWEVER - locating talented players at positions of need takes a skill set that this team has not had for a number of years

But you can't put the cart before the horse. No QB will be able to play behind this offensive line. While I agree that it does take some time for the line to develop, talent alone will be a major improvement for this line. I think that if you have a QB at JC's caliber behind a good o-line, you would be surprised to see what talents we have not been able to see out of him. But again, I am a JC supporter and a big supporter of having a offense and defensive lines is the key to a successful team.

In regards to the quick fix - that's been one of the biggest issues this team has had since Dan Snyder took this franchise over. It's always been a patch job. A quick attempt to fix what was really wrong with the team. It does not have a foundation. The overall foundation of the team is off and any successful team has a good o-line. All the SB teams were getting good line play on both sides of the ball.

I have no problem bringing in a young QB to learn the NFL. But you've got to have an experienced QB to run this program especially under it's current state. You've got to have a guy who can weather the storm because in all honesty, it's not a stable franchise.

In the not too distant future, we'll see what this team is going to do. I just hope they do what makes sense and not what will sell the most jerseys.

If it's a non cap year, why not trade our whole team for draft picks? Might end up with half a dozen first round picks and a bag of dry roasted peanuts at least. Then draft a QB, two o-linemen and a linebacker.

Yep, I'm joking. But only half joking. If next year really is a non cap year, I think we should blow it up and start again.

SkinsJock wrote:I understand Frank - but the fact remains that it is going to take a while to get the cohesiveness you need to have a good offensive line and while I agree that having both lines be very good is a base for any successful team - at some time we need a very good QB - A really good QB can make a team much better - a really great offensive line with an average QB is not going to translate in my opinion to a high scoring offense

I would like this team to find a great QB in the very near future - having that one great player is the quickest way to improve your offense

HOWEVER - locating talented players at positions of need takes a skill set that this team has not had for a number of years

Well said Skinsjock, I agree with this totally.

from what you are saying I think we both feel that this team needs a big upgrade with offensive line - no worries - fact is many here have been hoping for better depth along both lines for some time but because you know who do not know what they are doing, we are now experiencing what it is like to have a team with a few true NFL stars and zero depth

a few here (including myself) were concerned with this offense this season - we understood that we did not have many choices and I think we did the right thing in grabbing Orakpo - we have, for a few years now, had issues with both lines, and, with the addition of 2 new young linemen on defense we have helped our defensive line and hopefully we will continue to add to that for depth

the issues with the offense (from last year) were not just the offensive line but also the QB, the receivers, a "change of pace" RB and the play calling - each of these areas have so far proven to be a disaster - we were encouraged by some here to give it some time and we would be able to find out what were the most pressing areas of concern and address that (or those) in the near future - well, we have seen that none of these areas of concern have been even close to NFL level of acceptable play.

we do need to get some offensive linemen in here but we'' also need a decent QB and the quickest way to get any success is to bring in a FA and hopefully find the next superstar young QB and get him ready while we build this team



Now for the bad news all of this requires a management group that knows what it is doing, which we do not have and will not have in the near future - SO - why not get a superstar QB and just throw him out there and hope it works out - that is what we have done with the other positions here for the last 10 years - I'll bet we get all excited here next off-season because that's how the marketing genius that owns this team will make the gullible fans here feel ... again


like the add says "WAKE UP PEOPLE"





man I hope we win this game this week or it could get really ugly here very quickly - we will not get to the 8 wins we were hoping for but we sure do not need to throw this season away just yet

frankcal20 wrote:But you can't put the cart before the horse.

I agree Frank but why would we change this philosophy - that is what we have been doing for the last few years

Priorities for the draft IMHO should be as follows.

1. Oline
2. Outside linebacker
3. Young RB to split time with Portis eventual replacement.