The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Something irritates me about grown men crying about being booed. Regardless if its right or wrong, step ur game up and it'll stop.

Who cried about it? I ey called it "unnecessary" which clearly isn't crying. Can you show me a quote for that?

Robert Henson cried about it and embarrassed himself on Twitter. Dan Steinberg this morning compiled Henson's tweets from after the game. This is what he had to say:

"All you fake half hearted Skins fan can .. I won't go there but I dislike you very strongly, don't come to Fed Ex to boo dim wits!! No I didn't play but I still made more than you in a year and you'd [gladly] switch spots with me in a second, I was talking to the fans [who] said the crazy stuff, I'm use [to] heckling but I've never been booed in my own stadium. Again that was for the half hearted but if everyone wants to jump in come on.

The question is who are you to say you know what's best for the team and you work 9 to 5 at Mcdonalds. You don't wanna follow me anymore then fine but we play for you and win lose or draw we represent you!! My guy on the Rams said they never got booed even when they didn't win a game. We made mistakes out there but we fought through them tooth and nail.

I love this city and the rich tradition, it makes me play and study harder. Because I wanna be apart of the history, you guys can bash me. To all the fans who still love us thanks and we play hard for you!! I guess I'm disappointed that I stayed for hours in training camp to sign autographs and take pics, because I am loyal to every true fan and it's crazy how u quickly jump off just not use to it....

If don't like 51 then it's cool no harm done, I've just heard how teams dreaded coming here because of how loyal the fans were so that's what I was expecting, I know I have a job bc of you and my hard work....I shouldn't have said the salary comment but I was once a poor kid chasing a dream so I apologize for that one but the rest stands. I understand the fans frustration but some people act like we aren't frustrated when we don't execute, great win today it's hard to win....

Listen Twitter family I was really upset about being booed and things being thrown at us and I said some things that were out of line. So keep supporting us and we will keep playing hard for you all again I'm sorry...I apologize for all earlier comments about and to the fans, I was hit with objects from the crowd and was frustrated. 1-1 looks good baby."

CanesSkins26 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Something irritates me about grown men crying about being booed. Regardless if its right or wrong, step ur game up and it'll stop.

Who cried about it? I ey called it "unnecessary" which clearly isn't crying. Can you show me a quote for that?

Robert Henson cried about it and embarrassed himself on Twitter...

OK, fair enough. You answered the question, I agree. I'm still not thinking we're a team of weanies because a backup LB cried. And again you're right on that, he was crying.

give Jason Campbell a break. If anything he was one of the better performances of the day.

If we had a play called further than 8 yards down the field maybe he wouldn't panic when he has to throw deep.

Look I don't think it is a good idea to boo your home team ever, yet I found myself doing it. I don't know about everyone else that was booing but I was booing at the play calling.

Chris ey here is to you r play

Also, I think JC, CP, Betts, Orakpo, McIntosh, Horton and a bunch of other players had good days (not great, but good)

Back to booing. The fans should have booed. The performance was worth booing. And the performance was mostly bad because of the play calling.

I didn't mind a half back option pass in the redzone, but not on third and goal from the five. If Zorn had called that on a first down play from like the 10 then I would have be fine with it. If he had called a single pass on first down in the redzone that would have been nice.

Now for the two 4th and 1 calls. The first one I would have kick the FG but didn't have a problem with JZ going for that one because Swishy probably would have missed it! The second forth and one was just stupid! You kick the FG, go up by 5, kick a squib kick, and make the Rams, with no time outs, go 65-70 to get a TD. If you go for it a good call would have been 4 wide, send CP in motion and then QB sneak it. Or run from the same formation that they did run from and fake to CP and roll to the right with one TE in the end zone. If he is covered you run for the first down or TD.

If I was Zorn I would have Blanche review some of the red zone offense and ask him what defense he would play in a certain down and distance and then create a play sheet for those defenses. JZ needs to think to himself about what he want to call there, what defense would work against that and then call a play that would expose the defense that he thinks the other team will put on the field.

By the way, if booing hurts the play of this team then they all need to go out somewhere and find a sac!

I think dead silence, mild cheering, or real cheering would hurt this team more. They would think, well we won the game, so everything most be OK. Maybe, now they clearly know the fanbase is tired of the team underperforming and will shown a little fire because right now this team HAS NONE!

They're too busy "keeping it medium!"

Redskin in Canada wrote:
I only have a couple of questions:

How are the players supposed to know what the booing is specifically aimed at?

You honestly believe that we have more insight than the players? I think it was mentioned that some of the players have shown dissatisfaction (Moss, CP). Even fans from rival teams that I've talked to feel about the same way I do. We have talent, but the playcalling nullifies the talent we DO have.

Redskin in Canada wrote:If the Skins cannot count on us, the hard core fans, then who?

Again, I don't think the players are that naive. They may not all understand, but to say none of them understand the frustration of no offensive touchdowns in the first two games (and counting) is kinda silly to me.

Redskin in Canada wrote:They already have a whole bunch of Club seats sold to wealthy attendants, not necessarily fans. The Skins rely on us to support them.

I can't control who else is there, only myself. I will cheer for the good. If there's a fundemental issue, and I believe Zorn has a fundemental playcalling issue, then I will express my dissatisfaction with that. It's frustrating when you believe, as I do, that we have a lot of talent on the offense, and then have this lack of output that we've seen in the past two weeks. It doesn't matter if JC throws 600 yards of there's ZERO touchdowns that come from it, b/c be honest, how many games are won on field goals alone?

Redskin in Canada wrote:But I must be equally frank and hones with you:

I also BLAME myself. I already voted with my feet. I am not supporting the Team on the Stadium the way you are. You have decided to make sacrifices of time, money and other to support them. I have not.

So, I have no right to tell you what should or not should be done. You are already a better fan than me. I am not particularly proud about it but my absence from FedEx is the ONLY way I have to show my unhappiness and displeasure against the way the team is being run.

It is MY way of booing if you wish.

Peace brother.

Mine were not remarks specifically directed at you, RiC. I know I get caught up and frustrated as everyone else does, and we express it differently. I know I have been judgmental; probably overly so at times. It's my passion for the skins that cause this heartache. If we didn't care, would we even be upset?

DEHog wrote:

Cappster wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

The Dancing Bear wrote:I haven't been on in a while, been traveling a bunch. I wanted to throw my thoughts out there regarding the booing. I've read all the previous posts, and I believe that valid points are being made all across the board.

However, I have a thought about the booing. I think that SOME of the booing is connected in a lot of ways to how our society has become. Instant gratification. The fan base is made of of many different personalities, and there are many more fans that are not "old school". Those fans, the "Me Gotta Have It Now" type or the "point and Click" type as I like to call them, are most likely frustrated at not getting their "Instant Gratification". So they Boo.
Other fans that probably Boo could be suffering severe Economic conditions, and shelling out big bucks to see what they perceive as an inferior product makes them want to boo as well.

The true, die-hard fan needs to support the team, no matter what. Shelling them with Boos will not energize them to play better; if anything, it is demoralizing.

So it is proposed that you cheer when:
your playcalling is so predictable that even the Rams, who were shut out last week, stay in the game until the waning moments of the game?

the talent is out there, but the playcalling WON'T use it to its fullest extent...how do you 'support' that?

Do you support 3 run plays with 8-9 in the box? Are YOU going to cheer when they won't even attempt a fade, but rather a 1/2 back option? I sure as hell am not. I love the Redskins, but I do not support boneheaded playcalling.



I wasn't booing the players. I really wasn't even booing Zorn, but I was booing the pathetic playcalling that was yesterday's eeked out win.

I agree Vet. If Zorn doesn't trust Campbell enough to let him make a play in the redzone then he needs a new quarterback. 15 runs and 4 passes in the redzone when the run just wasn't working is pitiful (one of the pass plays was a shovel). We have a team that can win by more than two points if the game is called better. Its sickening to sit there and now that they are going to run and not even attempt a pass to cooley or kelly. To top it all of people paid $200+ dollars on a game that was less exciting than a soccer match.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again…if you come to FedEx expecting to see the Redskins destroy another team…don’t come. I chose to spend my entertainment dollar on the NFL because I find it to be the best entertainment out there. I pay money to see my favorite team play…and I’ve yet to see that not happen. Do you guys boo at the movie theater when you go to see your favorite actor and he/she is horrible??

I don't expect the Redskins to destroy another team but I do expect them to show some kind of will to win. I am most upset with the following:

Play calling is to conservative to really put up any significant points.

JC cannot hit a deep throw to save his life, but I think with more opportunities he might get be able to hit a few for a couple big plays.

The DB's continue to give too much cushion. Example: its 3rd and 4 and they play 10 yards off of the ball. A receiver runs 4 yards and cuts in; catches the call for an UNCONTESTED first down.

Zorn not allowing JC many opportunities to make plays in the redzone.

Years of a limp offense

cleg wrote:Guys, we are not talking about pop warner or high school here. These are pofessionals and should not need "blind" support to perform. Maybe we should all chip in and take the team out for ice cream and pizza after the next game.

I was on vacation last weekend and went to see my 9-year-old nephew play. He actually did pretty well blocking a kid taller and bigger than he. He gets the "good job" high-five and, even if things had gone different, would have heard nothing but encouragement and support.

But professional players don't need -- much less get -- that luxury from me. My place as a Redskins fan is not to give the "go get 'em next time" pat on the back when they really need a kick in the pants.

Again, I don't think the players are that naive. They may not all understand, but to say none of them understand the frustration of no offensive touchdowns in the first two games (and counting) is kinda silly to me.

Come on Vet, I know that you know better than that. Campbell threw a touchdown in the fourth quarter against the Giants to pull us within six points. Your point still stands, one offensive TD in two games when one game is against the Rams is horrendous. BOOOO! I WANT CHANGE!

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:

Again, I don't think the players are that naive. They may not all understand, but to say none of them understand the frustration of no offensive touchdowns in the first two games (and counting) is kinda silly to me.

Come on Vet, I know that you know better than that. Campbell threw a touchdown in the fourth quarter against the Giants to pull us within six points. Your point still stands, one offensive TD in two games when one game is against the Rams is horrendous. BOOOO! I WANT CHANGE!

That TD was in garbage time.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

ArlingtonSkinsFan wrote:

Again, I don't think the players are that naive. They may not all understand, but to say none of them understand the frustration of no offensive touchdowns in the first two games (and counting) is kinda silly to me.

Come on Vet, I know that you know better than that. Campbell threw a touchdown in the fourth quarter against the Giants to pull us within six points. Your point still stands, one offensive TD in two games when one game is against the Rams is horrendous. BOOOO! I WANT CHANGE!

That TD was in garbage time.

And against a prevent D.

At least Zorn let Campbell throw it instead of Portis or ARE.

RedskinsFreak wrote:

cleg wrote:Guys, we are not talking about pop warner or high school here. These are pofessionals and should not need "blind" support to perform. Maybe we should all chip in and take the team out for ice cream and pizza after the next game.

That's a insult to PW teams everywhere

VetSkinsFan wrote:You honestly believe that we have more insight than the players? I think it was mentioned that some of the players have shown dissatisfaction (Moss, CP). Even fans from rival teams that I've talked to feel about the same way I do. We have talent, but the playcalling nullifies the talent we DO have.

You are right. fans -and- some players are dissatisfied.

The latter group worry me far more than the first. If Jim Zorn loses the confidence of the players in the next few games, we are in deep trouble.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:You honestly believe that we have more insight than the players? I think it was mentioned that some of the players have shown dissatisfaction (Moss, CP). Even fans from rival teams that I've talked to feel about the same way I do. We have talent, but the playcalling nullifies the talent we DO have.

You are right. fans -and- some players are dissatisfied.

The latter group worry me far more than the first. If Jim Zorn loses the confidence of the players in the next few games, we are in deep trouble.

I've watched 3/4s of the Rams game again (completely sober I might add) and it just reinforces my thoughts. Anytime we're backed up, we have stupid plays. Our team worries me while we're in that 40 yard zone ( goal line - 20 and 20 - goal line).

Redskin in Canada wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:You honestly believe that we have more insight than the players? I think it was mentioned that some of the players have shown dissatisfaction (Moss, CP). Even fans from rival teams that I've talked to feel about the same way I do. We have talent, but the playcalling nullifies the talent we DO have.

You are right. fans -and- some players are dissatisfied.

The latter group worry me far more than the first. If Jim Zorn loses the confidence of the players in the next few games, we are in deep trouble.

Easier to get new players than new fans

I think the booing was certainly directed more toward the play calling, as well it should be. And I think there are several players that are equally frustrated, as well they should be.

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

Another aspect of the problem is the acceptability of less than acceptable performance. Can you imagine what a Bill Parcels post game would have sounded like? Coach Parcels, how would you characterize the offense today? Parcels: (Scowling at the questioner) You saw what I saw didn't you? Aside from not scoring ... dropping TD passes ... throwing passes out of bounds, and fumbling, I think we're doing $%#%^ GREAT ... what do you think? Anyone else got any more stupid questions? Celebrate a win? Yeah ... we should celebrate ... cuz if we keep playing like this, we won't get another win this year ... yeah, I spent a few minutes with the team "celebrating" ... though it didn't include $^%^%$ champagne. Now, if there aren't any more questions, I think I want to go back in the locker room and celebrate some more ... that OK with YOU?

That's what I would like to see from Zorn ... it would mean he's got a partial clue. But he didn't because he don't.

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

I agree. I think that the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that we don't have a strong, vocal leader at the qb position.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

I agree. I think that the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that we don't have a strong, vocal leader at the qb position.

I have actually seen some emotion shown by JC these past two games. There was a play where Heyer got beat by a speed rush (imagine that!) and JC was on his face. He showed frustration and had a few words for Heyer.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

I agree. I think that the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that we don't have a strong, vocal leader at the qb position.

I have actually seen some emotion shown by JC these past two games. There was a play where Heyer got beat by a speed rush (imagine that!) and JC was on his face. He showed frustration and had a few words for Heyer.

He got after Montgomery in the Rams game too.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

I agree. I think that the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that we don't have a strong, vocal leader at the qb position.

I have actually seen some emotion shown by JC these past two games. There was a play where Heyer got beat by a speed rush (imagine that!) and JC was on his face. He showed frustration and had a few words for Heyer.

That's a good point. It needs to happen more often though and it needs to not just take place when guys make mistake. You see guys like Rivers and Brees pumping up their teammates before games, but we don't ever see that from JC.

Has anybody ever seen JC do this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Hv7Tc1VoE&feature=related

or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXhrGXREy0&feature=related

CanesSkins26 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

What strikes me is the lack of intensity and emotion, particularly on offense. I believe this is manifesting in the dropped passes, fumbles, and critical mistakes. Where there is a lack of intensity, there is a lack of focus, and that focus needs to be there on every play.

What is the root cause of this? It comes from the coaches, and particularly Zorn. I've said this before, but I'll say it again ... Zorn's "Stay Medium" message is the most ill conceived, self defeating nonsense ever communicated to a team. Automobiles run on gasoline, and football players run on emotion and intensity. And athletes in general have some particularly fragile psyches .... the very last thing you want to do is put a damper on their intensity.

Frankly, Doc Walker talked about how soft Zorn ran training camp, and I think that's a crucial point. This is a soft team that lacks focus, and Zorn seems to lack the appropriate intensity himself. His post game interview showed a coach that was happy to get a win ... and he even said that aside from not scoring ... he thought the offense did pretty good. WHAT?? That's like telling your wife "well, aside from having frequent sex with my secretary, I think I'm a good husband".

I agree. I think that the problem is also exacerbated by the fact that we don't have a strong, vocal leader at the qb position.

I have actually seen some emotion shown by JC these past two games. There was a play where Heyer got beat by a speed rush (imagine that!) and JC was on his face. He showed frustration and had a few words for Heyer.

That's a good point. It needs to happen more often though and it needs to not just take place when guys make mistake. You see guys like Rivers and Brees pumping up their teammates before games, but we don't ever see that from JC.

Has anybody ever seen JC do this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Hv7Tc1VoE&feature=related

or this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXhrGXREy0&feature=related

Don't recall seeing Peyton Manning do it either. Is he a bust?

There is definitely more than one leadership style. Ever heard of a guy named Ditka? I think people consider him a successful HC. So was Dungy. They seem to be a tad different.

Don't recall seeing Peyton Manning do it either. Is he a bust?

He doesn't need to be with that team. I have no doubt though if it needed to be done Manning would do it. I've also seen him plenty of times walk up and down the bench and pump up his guys during a game.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Don't recall seeing Peyton Manning do it either. Is he a bust?

Manning has shown everyone that he's one of the most skilled QBs to ever play the game and that instills a confidence and trust within all who take the field with him.

Brees is on his way of being a little bit -- heck, a LOT -- of both the vocal and skilled leader.

We haven't seen much, if any, of either from JC.

Leadership isn't about getting in someone's face when they make a mistake, especially when you don't hold yourself accountable first.

After the game, some of the first words from Campbell was "there were two dropped TD passes". That, to me demonstrates a lack of leadership.

If he wanted to say anything, he should have said ... I know we had a couple of drops today that hurt us, but, I MISSED several passes out there too, and I NEED TO DO BETTER. That one to Mike .. I put a lot on that ball, and I probably could have made that one a little easier to catch. I'm the leader of this offense, and if we don't score, the blame has to start with me. It's my responsibility to lead this team, and score points, and take some of the pressure off of our defense. And it's not good enough to just say wait till next week ... all of us .. and especially me, need to play better now .. not later.

I want to see a QB get mad ... not when someone drops a ball, but when he misses an open guy. Be hard on yourself, and be encouraging to your teammates .. THAT's LEADERSHIP.

Give others the credit for success, and personally take the blame for failure. That's leadership.

Never once have I ever heard Campbell say .. hey, I didn't play well today, and it's my responsibility to set the tempo. The offense starts with me ... I need to throw better passes and make better decisions, and everything else will take care of itself.