The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

RayNAustin wrote:Look, YOU HAVE posted many times in the past about how good you thought Campbell was, and not that he was just the best option. You can back track now, and change your view ... as well you should. But like it or not, you can't change history and you can't now claim that nobody ever said or believed he was in the "Franchise QB" class.

Not surprised you'd twist it in that way. That's just typical with you. Sure, I've shown the ability to acknowledge when Campbell has played well at times and said he's our best option, which he is at this point. Somehow you twist that into me being in love with JC. Good one, Ray.

RayNAustin wrote:And I don't take instructions from you or anyone else. You are the one who places so much value on so-called experts opinions, not me. I DON'T CARE what your experts think. I know what my eyes see, and I don't need someone else to tell me what I've already witnessed. The only real evidence is that when the opportunity presented itself, Collins played circles around Campbell. That's a fact, regardless of how strongly you or anyone else denies it.

So you've got nothing... nothing to support your narrow and shortsighted view. Didn't think so.

What your eyes see? That's just the point, Ray... thanks. All we've seen from Todd is a few games played almost two years ago in Saunders system. We're all soooo surprised that Collins had a better understanding of Saunders system. What a shock that was for us. Saunders isn't here anymore and all we've seen from Todd is a few series in a few preseason games in which he didn't look any better. So since "your eyes" have seen very little of Todd in the past two years, I asked you to support your conclusion by posting any quotes, from ANYONE who HAS seen JC and TC compete in camp and practice who says TC is better. There AREN'T any quotes and NO ONE thinks TC is the better QB... and you know it and simply can't support anything you say. Well done.

RayNAustin wrote:I've heard time and again about how ZORN is one of these so-called experts who should obviously know which QB is a better. Guess what? I think Zorn is as clueless of a coach as I've ever seen coaching a Redskin team, and don't consider His Guru-ness to be so insightful. OK.

Expert as a head coach and calling plays or an expert at evaluating and developing QB talent? There's a difference... a big difference. He's got the resume for QB's. I'm not enamored right now with his play calling, but that's not what I'm talking about. I firmly believe Zorn has enough expertise to know TC is nothing more than a career back-up, just like all of Todd's former coaches did. And since you think otherwise, I asked for some kind of support for such a conclusion and you can't provide a single quote from anyone.... just as we thought.

Champsturf wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:As for worse owners than Dan Snyder. . .talk about hyperbole. I guess the cities of Oakland, Detroit, and Dallas must not exist. Not to mention a truck-load of owners from the past.

Let's see here...Oakland is a mess, but 2-0. Detroit has scored more on offense than the Skins. Dallas is always a joke with JJ in charge, but they too score more than the Skins. The team with the most points win, right?

Snyder is not the WORST owner in the NFL. He has never put together an organization going 0 - 16. Exaggeration destroys the substance of the REAL criticism that can be raised against him.

Snyder has consistently produced MEDIOCRE results.

If we agree that consistent mediocrity is unacceptable to fans, he has FAILED in his objective to create a competent organization from top to bottom.

Snyder represents FAILURE and INCOMPETENCE to Skins fans.

A few points on the game:

Offense:

Good

1. Moving Jason to the shotgun.

2. Jason finally using his legs and getting an attitude; fussing at Montgomery when he got hit after the pass he threw.

3. Better pocket presence from Jason.

4. Spreading the ball around. ey is a beast. A.R.E. did what he is supposed in that slot position.

5. Hitting Sellers and Thomas.

6. You can’t blame Jason for the drops, the Moss fumble and the calling of the plays in the red zone.

Bad

1. Jason has got to hit the deep ball. The opening play to Kelly should have been six or at least a long gain. Had Jason put the ball where Malcolm could have caught it in stride, probably six.

2. Jason has got to give Kelly a chance to go after that deep ball in the corner of the endzone against the smaller corner instead of throwing it out of the endzone.

3. Dropped passes. Two touchdowns were dropped by Sellers and Thomas…

4. Santana Moss. Before you Storm the Bastille or Release the Hounds, hear me out. Santana does not get enough touches but when he does, he’s got to take care of the ball and make plays when he does get the opportunity. He gave up on a ball last week that resulted in a pick. I think because of this team’s inability to get him the ball or his inability to get open, the window is closing on him. I think that Santana’s time may be passing him by. That last five minutes on a Monday night in Dallas is long gone. Let’s be real about it.

5. Play calling. Fourth and goal with the ball on the left hash and you run Clinton that way on a short field with the defense knowing you are going to run that way. How about a “naked bootleg” the other way or throwing it up and letting Kelly or Mitchell go up and get it? The play calling appears to be amateurish at best.

6. Coach appears clueless. Why is the special teams coach screaming at the HC to not call a timeout?

7. Other teams putting up points. N.O 40+; Houston 30+ on a good Tennessee defense, etc.

Defense:

Good

1. Pressure on the QB.

2. Forced a turnover.

3. Gave up just seven points and under 250 in total offense.


Bad

1. Not getting more turnovers and turning them into something.

2. Jackson big run as result of Horton’s poor angle and tackling.

3. Confusion before each play.

4. Corners playing too far off the ball again. Don’t know if they are being instructed to or they are doing it on their own? Either way, they need to fix that and not give teams a 10 yard cushion on a 3rd and 6.

5. Laron Landry. This may tie into #3. There is a huge coverage hole at safety and guys like Rogers and Smoot, who were used to Sean Taylor being back there, are not taking chances with press coverage because they know Landry is not Taylor. Laron needs to understand that there is a time to make the big hit and a time to be fundamentally sound and make a tackle or make a play. Sean was able to add coverage speed and coverage awareness to his ability to hit. Right now, we got two hitters at the safety position and that doesn’t allow our CBs to press and take chances.

6. Even though Orakpo is improving at LB, I think that Blatche and this team is making a huge mistake by not lining him up next to Albert on a regular basis. And because they decided to try to make this kid a LB instead of a DE, they didn’t even invest in getting a LB to play his position.

7. Why can’t this defense come at people like the Steelers, the Cowboys, the Ravens, etc. and put fear into teams by moving people around and sending Orakpo more etc.? This defense is a very good defense but it’s a defense that reminds me of good fighters who have great records, never get ko’d but yet can’t deliver the K.O. blew themselves. This defense reminds me of Winky Wright the boxer. Great defense but can be beat because he does just enough to try and not let his opponent score but doesn’t pose a threat to counter act. He’s a bend but not break fighter.

where to start? I guess with the good, since the bad could take a while...

Pass protection was pretty good again this week, but we'll see how Thomas' injury effets that...
Campbell made some good decisions (and some bad ones) tucking the ball when he did and finding ey as an outlet numerous times...
Great job by ey finding seams, catching and holding on to the ball (he stiil makes me nervous with ball security when he's getting tackled)...
Malcolm Kelley seams to be making strides, but I'm still not getting the impression he's working that hard or giving his all...
ARE always gives it his all and has a great attitude even though he's not really starting...
The D line is getting more push than they have in years...
Rocky Mac and London Fletcher played really hard all game...
Horton works hard and almost look like he's running the show out there sometimes...

The bad...

The play calling in the red zone, and coming out of our own end is horendous and shows a complete lack of confidence in the offense... don't even bother arguing that... It's amazing to me that someone who has the balls to go for it like that on 4th down, doesn't have the balls to actually go for it... 1st and goal from the 7, and you get 2 runs and a half back pass that everyone in the building saw coming as soon as the ball was pitched... that 4th down at the goal line was ridiculous. At that point you could run anything you wanted, the clock was going to stop anyway on the change of possession... I could go on and on, but week in and week out the play calling is scared and lacks confidence in the offense' ability to make a play... he has more confidence in tricks that he does our receivers getting open...
Speaking of receivers do we really have any speed? I hear about Thomas' speed, but I've never seen him run by anybody... and there were 5 times in that game where the Rams walked 8 guys up on the line of scrimmage and not once did we check to a wideout... the Rams obviously had no worry about our WRs winning a 1-on-1 matchup and we had no confidence they could either...
Cambell should have thrown that ball away out of his own endzone, he was lucky not to take a safety, and he brain farted on the fumble at midfield when he hit Sellers with the ball, again he was lucky Clinton got to it...
Our cushion corners are terrible. they may be the worst CB tandom in the NFL. They do nothing but let unknown receivers catch passes in front of them on 3rd down all day. It's a shame that this defense will not be able to take advantage of an improved D line...
I know everybody's going to talk about how they haven't given up a bunch of points or touchdowns, but if they can't get off the field on 3rd down, bad things are going to happen (See Calvin Johnson next week)...
The Rams easily converted that 3rd down near the goal line when we got the fumble... If not for that, the Rams score a TD there... That 2nd and 21 they converted also, it looked like Manningham from last week. Bulger walked up, saw a 12-yard cushion and a zone and just kind of chuckled to himself as he flipped the ball out to a reciever running full spped ahead...
Landry has forgotten how to tackle...

I could vent some more, but the bottom line is we were lucky to win a game by two that we should have won by 20 against one of the worst teams in the NFL... this offense doesn't execute well enough to pull-off 15 play drives without stumbling, so if the play calling doesn't perk up, and the defense doesn't contest receivers and tackle better, they're capable of losing to anyone...

SkinsFreak wrote:So you've got nothing... nothing to support your narrow and shortsighted view. Didn't think so.

Yes I do. Actual results of on field play, and not a bunch of speculation.

SkinsFreak wrote:What your eyes see? That's just the point, Ray... thanks. All we've seen from Todd is a few games played almost two years ago in Saunders system. We're all soooo surprised that Collins had a better understanding of Saunders system. What a shock that was for us. Saunders isn't here anymore and all we've seen from Todd is a few series in a few preseason games in which he didn't look any better. So since "your eyes" have seen very little of Todd in the past two years, I asked you to support your conclusion by posting any quotes, from ANYONE who HAS seen JC and TC compete in camp and practice who says TC is better. There AREN'T any quotes and NO ONE thinks TC is the better QB... and you know it and simply can't support anything you say. Well done.

Like I said .. on-field play, and not speculation, including better performance in pre-season the past two years (though you'll say it was against 2nd stringers ... and not mention that he was also playing WITH 2nd stringers).

SkinsFreak wrote:Expert as a head coach and calling plays or an expert at evaluating and developing QB talent? There's a difference... a big difference. He's got the resume for QB's. I'm not enamored right now with his play calling, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Too bad he hasn't been very successful at any of those duties. He was originally hired to be the OC and QB coach to develop Campbell. Clearly, this is where we seem to be in the weeds ... and we have this chicken and egg argument .. is Campbell to slow to learn, or is Zorn a poor teacher. Maybe ... maybe it's BOTH ? Because what I see is just more of the same. Campbell has always shown flashes of being able to move the ball between the 20's. When he's been given time, he's racked up decent statistical numbers. But he still can't hit an open target down field ... he did it yesterday ... under thrown ... over thrown ... led out-of-bounds. What did he do well? He hit ey in the middle ... he hit ARE on some underneath stuff, and the one down field play he did make are to ARE who ....gasp.... made a great catch on a high ball. This makes for good stats, and a high QB rating ... but it was AGAINST THE RAMS ... possibly the worst team in the NFL at this point. They're on their 12 straight loss going back to last year ??? Sorry, style points don't win games, and if this team doesn't improve dramatically, and quickly, last year's record of 8-8 will have been Zorn's best year.

SkinsFreak wrote:I firmly believe Zorn has enough expertise to know TC is nothing more than a career back-up, just like all of Todd's former coaches did. And since you think otherwise, I asked for some kind of support for such a conclusion and you can't provide a single quote from anyone.... just as we thought.

Al Saunders said that Collins was a good QB, and that the only reason he didn't play in KC was that he backed up a Pro Bowl QB who never got hurt. Is this so difficult to grasp? Now if Trent Green performed as poorly as Campbell has, and Collins still didn't play ... you might have some point. He did not and you do not.

As for your firm belief in Zorn's ability to judge talent ... where does that come from. He as a QB Coach ... that's the highest position he had attained prior to Snyder handing him the keys to the Redskins. Zorn has Zero experience ... Zero accomplishments in the area of talent evaluation.

He's already said it took three years to "develop" Hasselbeck, and had to bench him in the process. Matt Ryan didn't take 3 years to develop. Rothelisburger didn't take 3 years ... it certainly doesn't look like Sanchez is on a three year plan ... with the 3rd year still working on FOOTWORK.

Had the thought ever occurred to you that absent Zorn, Hasselbeck might not have taken three years? Or is this one QB project the end all be all proof that Jim Zorn is an unquestioned genius?

Look, the guy was a QB coach. That's it. Not a talent evaluating guru with a long track record of turning out super star after super star, OK.

His offense is FALLING ON IT'S FACE. It's embarrassing to watch, and his play calling is SO BAD, I would not seek his advice on a good place to eat in Seattle, because the guy appears clueless.

The entire offense is suffering this fool and his "laid back" "Stay Medium" nonsense. THE LAST ADVICE I'd give Campbell is to stay medium ... he's already in an emotional coma, as is the rest of the offense.

Sunday's lack of production was certainly not all Campbell's fault ... nor even the majority of it. He had a lot of help stinking the place out. Moss's fumble, the two drops, etc. The play calling was off the charts.

What should be a BIG concern is the post game interview ...

Anyone with the lack of good sense to say they intend on "celebrating" that win should hae been fired immediately thereafter.

Campbell needs to go. Zorn needs to go. That's the bottom line.

RayNAustin wrote:Al Saunders said that Collins was a good QB,

Oh, my bad. That must prove something... what, I have no idea.

As for your firm belief in Zorn's ability to judge talent...

Yeah, Ray, as a former NFL QB and a QB coach who helped developed a Pro Bowler, I think he can accurately judge who might be the better QB on our roster. Hell, even the vast majority of Skins fans who have no experience whatsoever can easily determine that JC is better then TC. Everyone except you of course.

RayNAustin wrote:Had the thought ever occurred to you that absent Zorn, Hasselbeck might not have taken three years?

Geez man... that comment is so shortsighted and just screams with a lack of knowledge. Zorn wasn't the ONLY coach molding Hasselbeck. Hasselbeck was also being groomed, coached and molded by another prominent QB coach, one who is credited for his role in molding the likes of Joe Montana, Steve Young and Brett Favre. Mike Holmgren had just as much, if not more, influence on Hasselbeck's development. But you knew that, right? Just forgot to mention it, right? That mere fact that you would lay that solely on Zorn just shows how narrow-minded that post was.

RayNAustin wrote:Sunday's lack of production was certainly not all Campbell's fault ... nor even the majority of it. He had a lot of help stinking the place out. Moss's fumble, the two drops, etc. The play calling was off the charts.

Thank you... nothing further, your honor. The defendant has unequivocally proven my point. Thanks again.

a win is a win, but im not happy....


zorn playing calling is so bad, words can not describe it

I think that the play calling was very good except in the red zone. I will say that mike sellers has to catch that pass. That was a touchdown for sure.

I think Jason Campbell put in one of his better performances that I have seen.

When you have field goals of 21,23,and 28. that is absolutely unacceptable execution in the red zone.

SkinsFreak wrote:Yeah, Ray, as a former NFL QB and a QB coach who helped developed a Pro Bowler, I think he can accurately judge who might be the better QB on our roster.

Yeah, it is pretty funny how many beer guzzling, nacho eating skins fans seem to think they're a better judge of QB talent than the coach and former pro QB. Big surprise here in DC.

I do think its possible that Zorn doesn't think Campbell is a good fit for this offense and would rather have a different QB. But this coach's job is on the line this year. Does anybody really believe he isn't starting the best QB currently on our roster??

That's just crazy talk.

ABSOLUTELY AGREED

Yeah, it is pretty funny how many beer guzzling, nacho eating skins fans seem to think they're a better judge of QB talent than the coach and former pro QB. Big surprise here in DC.

The only thing that "the coach and former pro QB" has shown so far is that he is in way over his head and has no business being either an offensive play caller or head coach in the NFL.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:Yeah, Ray, as a former NFL QB and a QB coach who helped developed a Pro Bowler, I think he can accurately judge who might be the better QB on our roster.

Yeah, it is pretty funny how many beer guzzling, nacho eating skins fans seem to think they're a better judge of QB talent than the coach and former pro QB. Big surprise here in DC.

I do think its possible that Zorn doesn't think Campbell is a good fit for this offense and would rather have a different QB. But this coach's job is on the line this year. Does anybody really believe he isn't starting the best QB currently on our roster??

That's just crazy talk.

Tim Ryan called the game for TV yesterday. He also does a radio show on NFL Radio. Because he was calling the game, he watched the gametape of the first game in preparation, the coaches tape, not what we saw on TV. On Friday, a caller asked him why Campbell was holding the ball. Ryan was very supportive of Campbell. He said the receivers are failing to get open, so Campbell is waiting to see if anyone gets open. Something we can't really judge from the couch. He also said Campbell needs to get more agressive.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Yeah, it is pretty funny how many beer guzzling, nacho eating skins fans seem to think they're a better judge of QB talent than the coach and former pro QB. Big surprise here in DC.

The only thing that "the coach and former pro QB" has shown so far is that he is in way over his head and has no business being either an offensive play caller or head coach in the NFL.

As a play caller and a head coach, that may be true and I tend to agree with that... at least at this point. But to say the guy doesn't know how to judge a QB's talent is just stupid. Zorn can't do it but one or two lonely fans at a keyboard can. Yeah, that makes sense.

One thing that I noticed while watching the Giants/Cowboys game last night is that we need to dump Betts and Mason and get some backs with some speed that can complement CP. Felix Jones, in particular, made some huge plays for Dallas and complemented Barber well. Betts and Mason bring virtually nothing to our offense. Other than Moss, we have no real speed on our offense.

I think that Betts is really good in the screen game. I think the problem is downfield blocking. Moss is really bad at it. I remember on one play where he just dove at the defender and flew right past him hitting the butt of the defender and it pushed him towards Betts. I look at players like Hines Ward - who are very rare - but they get right in the face of the defender and push them around like they are little girls. A little GRIT from our WR's would be nice on plays where they are required to block.

frankcal20 wrote:I think that Betts is really good in the screen game. I think the problem is downfield blocking. Moss is really bad at it. I remember on one play where he just dove at the defender and flew right past him hitting the butt of the defender and it pushed him towards Betts. I look at players like Hines Ward - who are very rare - but they get right in the face of the defender and push them around like they are little girls. A little GRIT from our WR's would be nice on plays where they are required to block.

Betts doesn't have the speed to adequately complement CP, who is more of a between the tackles back than he used to be. You look at the good teams in the NFL and they can hurt you with their speed, particularly in the backfield. I can't think of too many good NFL teams that lack game breaking speed the way that we do.

CanesSkins26 wrote:One thing that I noticed while watching the Giants/Cowboys game last night is that we need to dump Betts and Mason and get some backs with some speed that can complement CP. Felix Jones, in particular, made some huge plays for Dallas and complemented Barber well. Betts and Mason bring virtually nothing to our offense. Other than Moss, we have no real speed on our offense.

Mason has had three carries. Betts gets 4 per carry. Would you trade either of them for Jones? Yes, but Jones was a first round pick. Would you trade Orakpo for a backup RB? Advocating to dump Betts is fine, but also include a suggested replacement and how to obtain him...It's not like they can just call down to Dallas and tell Jones he's now on the Redskins.

SkinsFreak wrote:

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Zorn's playcalling in the red zone is what killed this offense.

Completely agree.

markshark84 wrote: We didn't have a play bigger than 25 yards. The dinking and dunking needs to go. Not sure if this is a result of the play calling or JC, but it needs to end.

I thought you had all this experience and were some sort of expert? This post clearly shows a complete lack of knowledge about the offensive system. First of all, it's not dinking and dunking... that's what MB04 did years ago with passes behind the line of scrimmage and others that didn't go beyond 4 yards. The WCO encompasses an intermediate passing game that relies on receivers making yards after the catch, much like ARE did last week with his 7 catches for 98 yards. How many passes did JC throw short of 5 yards? Few... if any. They did in fact take some shots downfield, it's just that JC struggles with accuracy on the long passes.

No, I have more experience than you. And I guess you are still stuck on that. And do you really think that I don't understand the WCO? The fact is that the skins "WCO offense" --- is NOT a pure WCO, so maybe you should understand that......the skins had 3 passes for over 20 yards today --- only ONE of which had YAC attached to it --- one by Betts. It was atrocious. And yes, JC did have issues with his accuracy on longer throws. But hey, if you are happy with this "WCO Offense" be my guest --- it sounds like you are. I am not, I am not happy with the dinking and dunking going on with this offense and their point production. Call it what you want, but I take it for what it is.

I understand that you are going to take any shot you can at me from now on because I called you out, but you have to NOT put words in my mouth in an attempt to do so --- which you did in this post. This offense is not a pure WCO offense like the ones seen in SF under Walsh.

You have more experience than me? At what, hyperbole? You don't even have the first damn clue who you are talking to, so that just shows how moronic that comment is.

I never said it was a "pure" WCO. I never said you said that either, so don't come off playing the "don't put words in my mouth" game. Every WCO utilizes an intermediate passing game, regardless of the variations or modifications. There are many teams in the league that employ the WCO and all of them use intermediate game that looks for receivers to get YAC. Again, if you think it's dinks and dunks, you're clearly establishing you know very little about a WCO or are just shortsighted. ARE had 7 catches for 98 yards last week. ey had 7 catches for 83 yards this week. You don't get those kinds of numbers with dinks and dunks and no yards after the catch.

Ok. This is going no where. The fact is that the current offensive scheme created by Zorn is not working. I'll call it dinks and dunks because that is the way I see our offense currently working. You can call it the WCO. With the exception of ARE and ey (who have been successful), we do not have the personnel to implement that type of offense (I could say Moss, but he has been non-existent). It appears that not only other posters, but other commentators have articulated the offense as having dinks and dunks. I heard B Mitchell use that terminalogy yesterday. Therefore, I guess there are a number of people, including former pros, that don't know crap. The reason why I stated that we only had one 20+ pass yesterday with YAC was because of the fact that we are not creating longer pass plays with or without YAC --- something we need to start doing. Then you started on the WCO structure, which wasn't my point. I understand that this is a type of WCO, but the team needs to adapt in an effort to score points. JC has just not been successful in making longer passes --- but, IMHO, that is what is missing in the offense; or the lack of spreading the offense -- which is why there is a lack of big plays. I personally believe that JC can adapt with proper coaching and training --- to a degree. He has the arm. Sure he cannot throw the 50 yard bomb, but I believe he can throw a 25 yard pass adequately. I may be wrong though. Call me crazy, but even in the WCO, there are situations where you are going to attempt a pass play that will net yardage of over 20+ yards --- with or without YAC; and this too has not been accomplished. But again, not the exact point, but something I wanted to point out because of the lack of big plays. It did happen with ARE for a 35 yard gain in week one -- a play which accounted for 35 of his 98 yards. It was a short pass with YAC. But other than that, we have not had one passing play for more than 30 yards.

And yes I agree with you in that the ARE and ey numbers are things that you cannot accumulate without short passes with no YAC. That is undebatable. But, those numbers (outside of the 35 ARE pass) are not going to create points --- which is what I am most concerned about; and has been proven based on the scores this year. So, to me they are dinks and dunks; to you it is a WCO structure. To me, a 5 yard pattern is a dink, regardless of the YAC. To you it is the WCO -- you tend to believe that anything under 5 yards is a dink and dunk; I don't. It is obvious we have different definitions of the term. I am not quite sure if you believe that this offense is one that is effective or not, you haven't been clear on that (but I am assuming you are; as I said prior to this), but to me, this team needs to throw the ball more in the 20 yard range; not the 5-10. Yes, I understand that this is not a WCO feature, but our current "WCO" is not working. This is obvious. And to answer you prior post, I have a very good foundation in the WCO, I played a number of teams that implemented it in college --- so I don't need a lesson in it.

Just an aside, but do you use "shortsided" in every post. I love it.

Would you trade Orakpo for a backup RB? Advocating to dump Betts is fine, but also include a suggested replacement and how to obtain him...It's not like they can just call down to Dallas and tell Jones he's now on the Redskins.

Betts should have been traded after his 2006 season. During the next draft we need to spend a draft pick on a back that can complement CP and brings some big play ability to the offense.

this O is shameful

how about a pass to one of the big WR we have like brees threw to colston.... good coverage, perfect ball in the perfect spot and A TD???? what is that?

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Would you trade Orakpo for a backup RB? Advocating to dump Betts is fine, but also include a suggested replacement and how to obtain him...It's not like they can just call down to Dallas and tell Jones he's now on the Redskins.

Betts should have been traded after his 2006 season. During the next draft we need to spend a draft pick on a back that can complement CP and brings some big play ability to the offense.

I agree on the trade. The year Michael Bush came out with the broken leg, I thought they should have traded Betts and drafted Bush. Bush isn't a speed back either...

To get anyone with any realistic chance of contributing, they'd have to spend either a first or a second to get the type of RB you describe. That may be a good plan, as Portis is not getting any younger. I think I'd prefer Oline with those picks. Randy Thomas is done. Rabach is a FA, and Samuels needs an heir apparent. Hopefully Rinehart steps up and shows he can play this year.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Why didn't we see this coming? The Redskins tried like hell to get a QB this offseason and I brushed it off as media speculation, the season before last they hired Jim Zorn as the OC with no head coach in place. Due to fan pressure they promoted Zorn to HC and waved bye bye to Jim Fassel (a fine coach)...

Obviously, the two most important factors for a football team, HC and QB were in serious disarray this season and I remained optimistic. I feel like a dope.

The Redskins are awful right now, and their youngest, best player is probably Orakpo without a whole lot of competition. The line is old, and most of the core (Cooley, Portis, Moss, and others) are seeing their primes flash before their eyes with no hope of a competitive season in the near future. This team needs a new QB, a younger RB, smarter, quicker wideouts, a younger offensive and defensive line, better linebackers, and a tougher secondary. Seriously, can even the biggest Redskins homer see anything to look forward to in the future? The Skins have been mismanaged since 1992... they've been on 5 or 6 different 5 year plans since the last time they won the Superbowl and they have been practically incompetent in free agency and the draft for at least that long.

In 1999/2000 the Redskins had their best chance at winning, Champ Bailey, Jon Jansen, Chris Samuels, Stephen Davis, Albert Connell, Stephen Alexander, Mike Sellers, Sam Shade, LaVar Arrington, Derek Smith, Dan Wilkinson... you don't get a young core like that very often. All those guys were good to star level and 27 or under. We were led by a star QB in Brad Johnson who made the probowl and we went to the playoffs in 1999.

In 2000, what did we do?

Dan Snyder came in and meddled. He screwed with a star like Johnson (someone who won a Superbowl later and had at least 3 more high quality years left) and brought in a malcontent like Jeff George. An older QB who was out of the league within two years. Snyder added pieces without the approval of the coach (like George, Larry Centers, etc.) and then fired him when things didn't work out. He fired Schottenheimer one year into his three year plan, Spurrier was a spectacular failure and Joe Gibbs ran for cover 4 years into a 5 year contract because he saw the futility in trying to win with the Redskins. (Incidentally, Gibbs had groomed Gregg Williams as his successor but he was fired almost immediately after Joe Gibbs left.)

I mean, what a horrible mess the franchise is in right now, and I don't see it getting any better. It would just be a miracle for a young coach to take control next season and draft a QB high (I like Colt McCoy) so we can hope for some Flacco or Ryan like success... but that's all we have... hope. There's no evidence the Redskins will do any of that.

Instead the evidence suggests that Snyder will gas up Redskins One and meet with Cowher or Shannahan offering millions and millions for another spectacular failure.

i must respond (being a homer)

i few weeks ago i wrote about what i see as the skins three year plan with zorn.

year one, suck it up and teach JC not to throw ints and check down well...

year two get a D with a major investment and some young guys (mission accomplished)

year three (after a misserable year 2 with no O) get a new QB and buy a prototypical wide out.

at this point we will have a sick D with two years under its belt and a new high power O.

What is all this trading Orakpo(1ST ROUNDER) for a back up Rb(1ST ROUNDER)???????
Felix is actually the excpection to the rule !

Most change of pace ELITE speed backs are found at earliest 3rd round!!!!
LEON WASHINGTON--3RD ROUND-JETS
DARREN SPROLES---4TH ROUND-CHARGERS
JERRIUS NORWOOD--4TH ROUND-FALCONS
AHMAD BRADSHAW-7TH ROUND---GIANTS


Fact is the front office would never have to use a 1st round pick on a speed back! just isolate one later in the draft ala the above mentioned teams
WE JUST ARE TOO STUPID TO MAKE THESE PICKS later in the draft.....are scouting doesnt even pay attention to these players....how do i know?....WE HAVE NEVER DRAFTED ONE THATS WHY!

THATS A HORRIFIC EXCUSE----orakpo or any other 1st round talent should have zero impact on the frnt offices ability to isolate young speed backs later in the draft-----PERIOD END OF STORY

The number of biggest concern to most involved in this conversation is, of course, "9" -- for obvious reasons.

How far-fetched would I be if I were to propose that, today, The Danny is actually more concerned with "105,121"?

markshark84 wrote:Just an aside, but do you use "shortsided" in every post. I love it.

Curious, but I have never used the word "shortsided" in my life. Love it if you may, but I don't even know what the hell "shortsided" means. Did you say you went to college? If so, that must be some new word I'm not familiar with, so that's my fault. I graduated from college in 1992 and concede that I may not be familiar with the new lingo used these days.

Edit: Actually, check that... I have used the word short-sided before. But it was on a golf course after I hit a 4-iron approach to the green that landed on the fringe near the flag, you know, on the short-side of the green. The "short-side" of the green is the side to which the hole is cut. But other than that, I'm not familiar with your use of "shortsided."