The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If you had to pick only one single aspect of the game to change, I would easily pick the play calling.

Honestly, I think we can win with our players. It is about putting it together.

The D held the G-men to 3 points on the first two long drives. If we would have come up with some yard-gaining plays it would have been a whole different ball game.

IMO, I think the first two possessions are simply key to move the ball. Take what will work with what you are given and it was that inside skinny post. Use a crossing route. Take the middle with Chaos and ARE, even when we were backed up. Positive plays. The trick play was terrible but we tried to come out of it with more runs. The three runs were terrible when even 5 or 6 more yards would have at least given your punter a little more room to work.

I don't know if we are working off a script or what for those. Then in the 2nd half, when you see what we've got, we don't go to it. We are still "establishing the run" but not one play action pass? What's the point? The half time adjustment wasn't.

I am not going to jump off a bridge or anything. I like our players, JC included but I think we do have to get smarter with what we are trying to do.

Zorn said today at his press conference that this is the first game where all the players played together for an extended period of time. Of course we are going to see issues.

That is pure garbage and nothing more than a sorry excuse. Zorn was out-coached yesterday, plain and simple. He needs to step up his game soon or start looking for a new job. No more excuses it's time to perform. Zorn coaches scared and calls plays not to lose and it is pathetic.

Deadskins wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Zorn said today at his press conference that this is the first game where all the players played together for an extended period of time.

It's the exact same situation for 31 other teams. It just sucks because we played right into their game plan. We seem to do that every time we play them.

QFT

Thinking some more about this - it's not so much that we lost or that players and game planning did not meet our expectations - it's mainly hard for me because, prior to the game, I really felt that we had the better QB and that Campbell was going to come out and show how much better he could be given pass blocking and a decent ground game.

No! the hard part is that the giants secondary was not going to be able to stop our passing attack AND the giants did not have anyone capable of even making our practice squad as pass catchers

we got beat because we could not take advantage of these issues that everyone on our team and in the game-planning knew about and they beat us because they did take advantage of anything and everything we gave them - there are some that want to think that this giants team is so much better - I don't know much but they are not a whole lot better than us - they just took advantage of our offensive line and we could do nothing against that secondary OR defend those wideouts when we had to

cowboyhater4life wrote:Our O-Line looked bad. JC had no time to throw the ball. When JC fummbled the ball our Pro-bowl LT missed the block! What a freaken mess that first half. We looked much better the 2nd half.

This post reflects a complete lack of understanding of how pass protection works. Chris Samuels play on that was TEXTBOOK. He handled the speed rush by moving it to the outside, and steering his man around the back of the pocket. Once Samuels is out of his view, Campbell is responsible to move into the pocket by 2 or 3 steps. The pocket was where it was supposed to be... Campbell WAS NOT.

Pass pro was very good against an outstanding Defense.

I notice this quote from Zorn - Redskins coach Jim Zorn thought Washington could take advantage of the Giants’ limited depth at CB. However, Zorn credited New York after Washington's loss. "They took care of that by putting a safety over the middle," said Zorn.

the 2 areas of concern that the giants had before this game were their secondary AND how were they going to manage after losing Burress and Toomer I guess we found out and instead of adjusting at the half we continued to not take advantage of these 2 areas

oneman56 wrote:I agree with the posts questioning the play-calling, despite the fact some of you have said that's not fair to do. As stated already, 3 straight runs from inside our own 5 yard line against a top flight run defense to me is scared play-calling and it pur our D back out there fighting a Giant Offense with a short field. When fans can predict 90% of the plays being run without doing film study what do you think other teams defenses can do?


Also, I think Jason's performance was mediocre, not terrible and certainly not good. He can't trhow a deep ball with any accuracy which makes it hard to stretch the field but i would like to see more intermediate routes (I think he's very very good here). Also, why we didn't keep exploiting the middle of the field with empty seats is beyond me or even with 1 back in to help protect. Everytime we did that we had success, keep doing it until the Giants take it away, don't take it away for them.


Also, I disagree about our D playing that good. They too, were mediocre in my opinion. Couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs (same as last year), very little pressure from our pass rush and our corners I fear are not that good. I've felt all off-season we would miss Springs (despite his injuries) and if week 1 was any indication than i'm not optimistic about their play. D. Hall and Smoot are both over-rated in my opinion. We don't have a physical corner to play bump and run or press coverage and it kills us on 3rd downs. When Hall attempted to jam Steve Smith late in the game on 3rd down he completely whiffed and let the Giants off the hook when we could have gotten the ball back with good field position. I'd like to see more blitzing on 3rd downs.


Another thing still missing is a vocal leader, Haynesworth doesn't seem to play with passion (something i'd like to see form the highest paid player on the team). We need someone on both sides of the ball who can get this team fired up and play with an attitude that's infectious.

Amen... who leads this team? Say what you want about ARE, but he works his tail off to get open... Fletcher, Horton, and Doughty work hard and show some passion... those guys are over achievers though... where's the leadership/fire from the "big name" high-profile guys? $200M to upgrade the #4 defense in the league and they tackle like that? Somebody better step up and light a fire... This ain't MLB, 1/16 of the season is over...

Countertrey wrote:This post reflects a complete lack of understanding of how pass protection works. Chris Samuels play on that was TEXTBOOK. He handled the speed rush by moving it to the outside, and steering his man around the back of the pocket. Once Samuels is out of his view, Campbell is responsible to move into the pocket by 2 or 3 steps. The pocket was where it was supposed to be... Campbell WAS NOT.

QFT

Campbell was not where he was supposed to be ALL DAY LONG

talk about putting some pressure on yourself - this game this week is going to be a good indicator - the Rams are not a good team defensively or offensively this year

SkinsJock wrote:

Countertrey wrote:This post reflects a complete lack of understanding of how pass protection works. Chris Samuels play on that was TEXTBOOK. He handled the speed rush by moving it to the outside, and steering his man around the back of the pocket. Once Samuels is out of his view, Campbell is responsible to move into the pocket by 2 or 3 steps. The pocket was where it was supposed to be... Campbell WAS NOT.

QFT

Campbell was not where he was supposed to be ALL DAY LONG

talk about putting some pressure on yourself - this game this week is going to be a good indicator - the Rams are not a good team defensively or offensively this year

Let's not forget that Rams are coached by Spagz, the same guy who ran that D that we couldn't seem to figure out this weekend. They may not have the offense but count on that D to give our O fits all day long.

I moved to Phili 5 years ago from NVA and I have had to indure the retards that are Philly fans. They hate their own team even though they have been to the playoffs something like 8 out of 10 years. Guess the fact that they don't have any SB's has something to do with that.

I haven't had any huge ideas of granduer for the skins these past 15 years or so, even with the announcement of Gibbs returning I had to temper my expectations. That being said I cranked up my TV yesterday and watched the game with a fanatic group of skins fans living in Phili.

Everyone collectively noticed a few things that were obvious. Giants rush both pass and run was better than the skins. JC had time but not alot. We were all wondering why the skins didn't "call" the screen to Portis more often to beat the pass rush. Something the Eagles to well with Westbrook.

Skins defense looked inconsistent most of the game in the secondary. Tackling drills are in order.

The Gmen did a better job of picking up skins blitzes. From our standpoint they didn't blitz much and when they did (successful or not) they seemed to come from very predictable locations. The skins need to do a better job of disguising their blitzes. Eli audibled right into a quick slant that beat us for a TD (poor tackling on our D gave them the TD).

It was only one game and the giants are a better team but I think it was clear that the lack of attention in the offseason to our offensive line getting much younger has hurt our chances of beating a playoff caliber team.

Zorn tried a bunch of different things that went sour on him by poor execution so I give him credit for that. What he didn't do, and what great teams like the PATS and Colts do is use short plays to beat the speed of the rush to get the Defense sitting back a bit more. Didn't see Kelly more than a flash or two on the TV and his big body could have taken out a defender 1v1.

Of course we were all upset with the outcome of the game, but the season is early and a 9-7 record got the Cardinals to the SB last year. So I know we won't go to the SB but I have hope that this team WILL be better than last year and WILL be fighting for a Wild Card spot.

Hail
Phans in Phili

SKINFAN wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Countertrey wrote:This post reflects a complete lack of understanding of how pass protection works. Chris Samuels play on that was TEXTBOOK. He handled the speed rush by moving it to the outside, and steering his man around the back of the pocket. Once Samuels is out of his view, Campbell is responsible to move into the pocket by 2 or 3 steps. The pocket was where it was supposed to be... Campbell WAS NOT.

QFT

Campbell was not where he was supposed to be ALL DAY LONG

talk about putting some pressure on yourself - this game this week is going to be a good indicator - the Rams are not a good team defensively or offensively this year

Let's not forget that Rams are coached by Spagz, the same guy who ran that D that we couldn't seem to figure out this weekend. They may not have the offense but count on that D to give our O fits all day long.

They just gave up like 38 points to the Seahawks.

The skins really had no chance on offense. The giants only had to rush 4 while keeping the secondary back. That front 4 was enough by itself to put some pressure on Campbell. The reason ey and El had big games is because the middle was the only thing that was open, and even that wasn't too open. If they can't block a 4 man rush or run against it in some variety they aren't going to beat elite defenses like the giants. Look at the Steelers, Ravens, and Giants games from last year. Moss and Kelly need to find ways to beat corners short in those situations, and Zorn needs to call more plays going over the middle.

brad7686 wrote:The skins really had no chance on offense. The giants only had to rush 4 while keeping the secondary back. That front 4 was enough by itself to put some pressure on Campbell. The reason ey and El had big games is because the middle was the only thing that was open, and even that wasn't too open.

The middle was open enough that Zorn should've stuck with it. The short passing game was working, at least more than the run game was.

Mursilis wrote:

brad7686 wrote:The skins really had no chance on offense. The giants only had to rush 4 while keeping the secondary back. That front 4 was enough by itself to put some pressure on Campbell. The reason ey and El had big games is because the middle was the only thing that was open, and even that wasn't too open.

The middle was open enough that Zorn should've stuck with it. The short passing game was working, at least more than the run game was.

Amen.....

I must have been away longer than I thought. I logged in here, expecting to find the same old hyperbole, from the same old suspects, and doom and gloom all round. But what do I find?

Lots of reasoned debate, and a lot of good points, well made, in my opinion.

I am disappointed, but not distraught. Maybe I've become too used to mediocrity, or maybe it's just too soon to know how bad the Redskins are, or how good the Giants are. Right now, I reckon the Giants are a fine team, who know what they do well, and keep on doing it. The Redskins just haven't had enough consistent success with anything in recent years to know what it is they're good at. They never get an offensive rhythm together. Against the Giants, that just gets harder, because they don't sit back and let you do what you want - they get in your face on defence and force you to make plays. More than that, they force you to execute WELL - not something this team is capable of, it seems.

I'm not so down that I can't see any light, but it's difficult to be positive today. Campbell just looked like a rabbit in the headlights, the tackling was abysmal, and Landry and Moss both need an attitude check. I'm really puzzled that the Redskins want to take a superb defensive end like Orakpo, and play him at linebacker where people can attack him and exploit him.

Somebody please tell me it's all going to be ok, and we're going to beat the Rams? Please?

orakpo is a 4-3 defensive end or a 3-4 outside linebacker. I couldnt find him on the field yesterday.

brad7686 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:talk about putting some pressure on yourself - this game this week is going to be a good indicator - the Rams are not looking like a good team defensively or offensively this year

Let's not forget that the Rams are coached by Spagz, the same guy who ran that D that we couldn't seem to figure out this weekend. They may not have the offense but count on that D to give our O fits all day long.

They just gave up like 38 points to the Seahawks.[/quote]

I'll be watching SKINFAN - I saw parts of the Rams game and they are just not going to be any good this year - the Seahawks are not a good team either and they looked good against a team that is in their division - thank goodness we never hired him - he needs a lot of talented players to be effective

Critics of the Skins defense are unjustified. They were on the field all day. They also stopped the league's best running game and perhaps its best goal-line rusher TWICE near the goalline. That was very impressive. They saved 10 points total in goal line stops, and only gave up 16 offensive points against a fluid, top-tier offense. I think they will only get better, too.

secondary was exposed all day

Agreed about the secondary, they were exposed. I don't feel that critics of the defense are unjustified at all. Just as the game wasn't as close as 23-17, our defense wasn't as good as only giving up 16 points. The Giants punted only once all day long, continually converted 3rd downs and picked up our blitzes with ease except one. It's true we were good against Jacobs and very stout on short yardage plays but we didn't contain Bradshaw and our seconday was poor aside from Horton and Doughty.

Adversely, I feel the critics of our O-line are somewhat unjustified. Our run blocking was terrible i'll give you that but our pass pro was effective and good enouth to allow Campbell time to make reads and throws (and this was a very very good d-line they were up agains, i have no problem with our o-line play yesterday). Our offense didn't reflect a west coast offense at all, no slants, very little screens and not many quick passes. We didn't do anything to put the giants back on their heels. Our offense was outcoached by their 1st year D-coordinator and i think that was obvious.

Zorn better get un-predictable in a hurry and start calling plays that give this team a chance. Run, run, pass isn't gonna cut it against any teams especially those of the likes of the Giants.

SkinsJock wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:talk about putting some pressure on yourself - this game this week is going to be a good indicator - the Rams are not looking like a good team defensively or offensively this year

Let's not forget that the Rams are coached by Spagz, the same guy who ran that D that we couldn't seem to figure out this weekend. They may not have the offense but count on that D to give our O fits all day long.

They just gave up like 38 points to the Seahawks.

I'll be watching SKINFAN - I saw parts of the Rams game and they are just not going to be any good this year - the Seahawks are not a good team either and they looked good against a team that is in their division - thank goodness we never hired him - he needs a lot of talented players to be effective[/quote]

Not to take this off on a tangent, but if you think the Redskins have been mismanaged in the past few years be happy you don't root for the Rams. after the Super Bowl years the front office routinely shot itself in the foot with bad drafts and was completely unwilling to address any on-field needs the team had through free agency. I wont hang anything on Spagz until at least the end of next season. Most Rams fans look at this season as simply a means to a high draft pick and hopefully a franchise QB that can replace Bulger and a year of growth for the the 08 and 09 draft classes.

nc skins wrote:Hey guys, new to the site...

Hail and welcome, brother! You would be hard-pressed to find a better, more passionate and knowledgeable group of 'Skins diehards than the guys here. If you haven't been contacted by one of the Staff or Mods yet you soon will be, just to remind you about the site rules and regs.

Glad to have you aboard, my man. I look forward to your posts in the future.

Countertrey wrote:

cowboyhater4life wrote:Our O-Line looked bad. JC had no time to throw the ball. When JC fummbled the ball our Pro-bowl LT missed the block! What a freaken mess that first half. We looked much better the 2nd half.

This post reflects a complete lack of understanding of how pass protection works. Chris Samuels play on that was TEXTBOOK. He handled the speed rush by moving it to the outside, and steering his man around the back of the pocket. Once Samuels is out of his view, Campbell is responsible to move into the pocket by 2 or 3 steps. The pocket was where it was supposed to be... Campbell WAS NOT.

Pass pro was very good against an outstanding Defense.

I was just about to write something similar. Saying that JC had no time to throw is literally idiotic and saying that Samuels missed the block showed a total lack of understanding of OL assignments and the game in general. That was the dumbest post of the year -- without question.

What aggravates me the most about yesterday's gameproved that the Skins are terrible at spying, as well.

I mean, what was th point of signing A. Woodson of the Gints' PS?

Did Zorn, purposely not talk to him all week to prove his signing was legit?

Did Woodson agree to be signed by the rival Skins, only to sabotage the team with his "inside" knowledge?

...or did we also screw up the signing, by bringing on a player who could not learn a playbook, even after a year and change to learn it?

Unless this team runs gimmick plays and/or broken plays for an entire game, I don't see this team improving from last year's 8-8 finish.

Besides a stronger run d, I felt like i was watching the exact same miserable team I saw at the end of last year. Haynesworth did an EXCELLENT job stuffing the run and he will prove to everyone that he was worth it. (even tho no1 is worth that kind of money) deangelo hall needs to learn to tackle. the manningham td could have EASILY been prevented with just a simple tackle instead of a hitstick lol.... it was nice to c him get a pick but that was the least he could do after his petty mistakes. campbell looks indecisive as usual and portis besides his first carry seemed slower than usual....now..... did any1 notice that when the redskins were in 4 WR and 1 TE or 5 Wide they were moving the ball EFFECTIVELY????? y is it with 2:30 left in the gm they score a TD in 1 minute using 1 TO. earlier in the gm when they were in shotgun after the campbell fumble td they also moved it very quickly.... the skins have 4/5 capable wideouts and a very good TE in cooley to stay in shotgun more often... i think campbell is more confident and poised in the gun. i think the play caling for the redskins is completely moronic on offense. if skins dont win 8 or more gms i belivee zorn will be fired and i would stand by the decision 100%.... he is not fit for this job..... the playcalling is just too obvious and its sad that the talent on this team cant play to their full potential... thoughts?

...it's just one game.... i don't think a coaches future should be decided on one game.....i also agree that the team played very well when they went 4 wide....jc has a lot more options when he is in shotgun and i am not sure why a coach would not allow him to do that if he has shown that he is more effective in that set...but again, i'm not the coach....

.....