The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

RayNAustin wrote:Since 2004, the Redskins are 25-30 under Gibbs........6-11 in the preseason. This from the highest paid all star coaching staff with the highest player salaries in the NFL?

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And all of this from a team with the HIGHEST SALARY in the entire NFL!!!!

That is not true, that honor goes to the team that just finished demolishing the Redskins. Look things up, don't assume.

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Since 2004, the Redskins are 25-30 under Gibbs........6-11 in the preseason. This from the highest paid all star coaching staff with the highest player salaries in the NFL?

The player salaries part still isn't true:

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And all of this from a team with the HIGHEST SALARY in the entire NFL!!!!

That is not true, that honor goes to the team that just finished demolishing the Redskins. Look things up, don't assume.

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Since 2004, the Redskins are 25-30 under Gibbs........6-11 in the preseason. This from the highest paid all star coaching staff with the highest player salaries in the NFL?

The player salaries part still isn't true:

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And all of this from a team with the HIGHEST SALARY in the entire NFL!!!!

That is not true, that honor goes to the team that just finished demolishing the Redskins. Look things up, don't assume.

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Since 2004, the Redskins are 25-30 under Gibbs........6-11 in the preseason. This from the highest paid all star coaching staff with the highest player salaries in the NFL?

The player salaries part still isn't true:

Fios wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:And all of this from a team with the HIGHEST SALARY in the entire NFL!!!!

That is not true, that honor goes to the team that just finished demolishing the Redskins. Look things up, don't assume.

If people keep saying it, maybe it'll be true?

RayNAustin wrote:This isn't about injuries and excuses any longer. This is about failure. This is about unacceptable results......consistently unacceptable results.

This year against Teams with winning records, the Redskins are 1-3, with the 1 win against the Lions.

It took overtime to eak out a win against 0-8 Miami in the home opener. We should have lost the Cards game, and if memory serves, Philly was close to a late comeback. In all honesty, the Redskins could easily be 1-6 right now. And this is nothing new since Gibbs return.

Since 2004, the Redskins are 25-30 under Gibbs........6-11 in the preseason. This from the highest paid all star coaching staff with the highest player salaries in the NFL?

We have a coaching staff that can't....after 3 1/2 seasons manage the clock........a team that spikes the ball from inside the 3 yard line with 50 seconds on the clock and the game on the line.....a team that has proven to be incapable of correcting their obvious problems....a team that consistently shoots itself in the foot time and again and allows everyone to hang around with opportunities to win in the 4Q.

This year is a repeat of 2004 where the defense played well and needed only marginal production from the offense to be winners....production that never came through.

In it's fourth season under Gibbs, the Redskins offense is just about as bad as 2004. In 2004 the Redskins were 31st in the NFL in scoring with an average of 15 points per game. This year (if you discount the Lions game) we are averaging 15.8 points or 18.4 counting the Lions game. This is worse than 2005 and 2006 ...... in other words, we are moving in the wrong direction when the NFL is showing an increase in scoring with the top teams doubling our production on offense.

Prior to the Pats game, Gibbs pre and post game comments are the same, expecting the game to be hard fought and go down to the wire. For the most part, the Redskins have lived up to those less than stellar expectations. This week all we heard from Gibbs was how tough the Pats were.....no weaknesses......anybody got a game plan....if they do leave it for us? Gibbs might as well have said "hey, were going to NE because we have to.....hopefully we can make it out of there alive". Gibbs overall tone was almost conceding defeat before they got on the plane. And sure enough, we got humiliated on both sides of the ball right from the start.

Sure, the Pats are playing awesome right now. But that's no excuse for being whipped like a redheaded step child. Being unable to post even mild resistance to the Pats in ANY manner shape or form is absolutely inexcusable and proves that this team is poorly managed, poorly coached, and totally unprepared for the opposition week in and week out.

Our putrid stinking up the second half of most games shows that the opposing coaching staffs simply out coach the Redskins all star cast of coaches, and a major overhaul is needed in philosophy.

Each year we hear that we just need a couple more players....a little more depth.....and we go and get guys like BL and pay them huge money to do nothing.

Does the coaching staff not have responsibility for choosing the personnel also?

If the Danny had any sense, he'd be naming Williams the interim head coach, and talking to Cower about ending his retirement.

joedondero1919 wrote:adding insult to injury... David Patten has 15 catches for 251 yards and two 100 yard games in his last 3 games.

riggofan wrote:I'm really surprised anybody is all that worked up about this game. The Patriots are freaking good. Get over it.

Mursilis wrote:

joedondero1919 wrote:adding insult to injury... David Patten has 15 catches for 251 yards and two 100 yard games in his last 3 games.

And L. Coles has 41 receptions for 460 yards and 6 TDs. I always like him - tough as heck. I remember one of his last games for us - he broke his finger in the middle of the game, popped it back into place, and kept on going.

Fios wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:The whole team stunk today period!

That's an exclamation point

welch wrote:Maybe we should take a few days off before telling Gibbs, or Snyder, how to fix the team?

Incidentally, it was our own beloved George Allen who called timeout with about 30 seconds to play, ball on the Giants 1, to let Larry Brown score a TD on the next play...while already leading. 1972 season.

So, who's up next? The Jets?

aswas71788 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:screw this team, and Gibbs is not the answer.....period!

I am not ready for the 1st part of your statement, I have been a Redskins fan to long. As for the 2nd, I agree, Gibbs is not the answer and neither is Jason Campbell...........................2 fumbles almost 3 and an interception.

Campbell didn't loose the game by himself, the offense didn't show up.

I disagree about the Campbell statement. He has played very well this season so far. Far better than most young quarterbacks would at this point in their careers. Tons of analysts....Sonny, Aikman, Jaworski, Jacoby, etc. have all praised him and said they expect him to be very successful in the NFL. Yes he fumbled 3 times today, but I'm far more concerned about what the offensive line was doing than I am about JC fumbling. Twice Vrabel hit JC unblocked and on the other fumble we had ey (a mediocre blocker) and CP (usually a good blocker but he had an injured hand) trying to block him. We were down and JC was just trying to make things happen. Brady fumbled in a similar fashion as JC (ball knocked loose while trying to throw). The only difference there was that Brady's line actually blocked for him today.

I have watched every game that Campbell has played. Campbell seems to make good decisions, that is what everyone raves about but he cannot put them into effect.Yes, Brady fumbled but Brady brought his team back.

The quarterback sets the tempo for the offense even when a game plan is bad. There is no tempo with the Redskins! If you say the offensive line, I will admit that it has an effect but Campbell still cannot lead. He supposedly worked so hard during the off season. This is about the 3rd time this year that he is supposed to have had his worst game as a professional.

Time will tell but I don't think Campbell will be anymore than a journeyman quarterback. Not because he doesn't have the skills or smarts, but because he cannot execute a game plan effectively. He cannot provide that spark when it is needed. Sonny Jurgenson could lift the team and make you believe that they could win. It is not something that you can teach, it is a natural talent, a gift that makes a leader. He is the quarterback, the leader and he cannot do it. Not once this year has the offense made me believe they could win even when they did. It always fells like I have to pray that the defense makes some special play to win the game.

The road to the NFL is littered with hundreds of great college players that should have been great NFL players, had great promise or had great skills but just could not get it together. I think this is the destiny of Jason Campbell.

I stand by my statement.

Until they get healthy on the offensive line, this team is gonna struggle because the importance of a healthy offensive line is probably more pertinent to the Skins' existence than most teams in the league.

welch wrote:BG said

Until they get healthy on the offensive line, this team is gonna struggle because the importance of a healthy offensive line is probably more pertinent to the Skins' existence than most teams in the league.

He's right, although I'd say that the OL is the engine of any team...no QB will win if the line can't block. It takes a magician, someone like Sonny Jurgensen who was so much better than any other passer that he might as well have been playing in a different league, someone like that even to lose respectably...which the mid'60's Redskins did most of the time.

In the case of Campbell, it looks like he needs another year or two of development. Joe Theisman played a year in the CFL, and then sat on George Allen's bench for 2 1/2 years before he started regularly.

As previously noted, in the the NFL single game scoring record game against the Giants, Sam Huff called the timeout and the Coach was Otto Graham. I was there. Loved every minute of it.

welch wrote:SC, I'm pretty sure you're right.

And

As previously noted, in the the NFL single game scoring record game against the Giants, Sam Huff called the timeout and the Coach was Otto Graham. I was there. Loved every minute of it.

One reason I loved it was because the Giants used to humiliate the Redskins. Second worst loss: Giants 53, Redskins 0, 1961. It was fun when the Robustelli, Grier, Katcavage, Little Mo, YA Tittle Giants slipped a bit. Nobody stays on top.

SCSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:screw this team, and Gibbs is not the answer.....period!

I am not ready for the 1st part of your statement, I have been a Redskins fan to long. As for the 2nd, I agree, Gibbs is not the answer and neither is Jason Campbell...........................2 fumbles almost 3 and an interception.

Campbell didn't loose the game by himself, the offense didn't show up.

I disagree about the Campbell statement. He has played very well this season so far. Far better than most young quarterbacks would at this point in their careers. Tons of analysts....Sonny, Aikman, Jaworski, Jacoby, etc. have all praised him and said they expect him to be very successful in the NFL. Yes he fumbled 3 times today, but I'm far more concerned about what the offensive line was doing than I am about JC fumbling. Twice Vrabel hit JC unblocked and on the other fumble we had ey (a mediocre blocker) and CP (usually a good blocker but he had an injured hand) trying to block him. We were down and JC was just trying to make things happen. Brady fumbled in a similar fashion as JC (ball knocked loose while trying to throw). The only difference there was that Brady's line actually blocked for him today.

I have watched every game that Campbell has played. Campbell seems to make good decisions, that is what everyone raves about but he cannot put them into effect.Yes, Brady fumbled but Brady brought his team back.

The quarterback sets the tempo for the offense even when a game plan is bad. There is no tempo with the Redskins! If you say the offensive line, I will admit that it has an effect but Campbell still cannot lead. He supposedly worked so hard during the off season. This is about the 3rd time this year that he is supposed to have had his worst game as a professional.

Time will tell but I don't think Campbell will be anymore than a journeyman quarterback. Not because he doesn't have the skills or smarts, but because he cannot execute a game plan effectively. He cannot provide that spark when it is needed. Sonny Jurgenson could lift the team and make you believe that they could win. It is not something that you can teach, it is a natural talent, a gift that makes a leader. He is the quarterback, the leader and he cannot do it. Not once this year has the offense made me believe they could win even when they did. It always fells like I have to pray that the defense makes some special play to win the game.

The road to the NFL is littered with hundreds of great college players that should have been great NFL players, had great promise or had great skills but just could not get it together. I think this is the destiny of Jason Campbell.

I stand by my statement.

Some of what you say is true. But, isn't a lot of that due to the fact that very few QB's outside of BBM/P Manning call their own game these days. Every play for the most part, not counting audibles, is called by the Offensive Coordinator up in the booth? QB's like Sonny and the other great ones of those by gone days had a feel for the game and what plays were working and were truly field generals. These days, most QB's are on the field puppets with someone else calling the shots. Of course those that execute those directions does so better than others. And those with a better supporting cast around them have more success too.

I agree but I think the importance of the offensive line's health is magnified when you have a youngster back there because he simply needs more time to process what's going on. There are, of course, some vets in this league that could get by or more than get by with the Skins current situation, but I don't know any young QB that wouldn't be suffering just as much as Campbell is. Because of the lack of size of the receivers, his margin of error is small, and it's not like he can lean on the running game either.

BeeGee wrote:

SCSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

oneman56 wrote:screw this team, and Gibbs is not the answer.....period!

I am not ready for the 1st part of your statement, I have been a Redskins fan to long. As for the 2nd, I agree, Gibbs is not the answer and neither is Jason Campbell...........................2 fumbles almost 3 and an interception.

Campbell didn't loose the game by himself, the offense didn't show up.

I disagree about the Campbell statement. He has played very well this season so far. Far better than most young quarterbacks would at this point in their careers. Tons of analysts....Sonny, Aikman, Jaworski, Jacoby, etc. have all praised him and said they expect him to be very successful in the NFL. Yes he fumbled 3 times today, but I'm far more concerned about what the offensive line was doing than I am about JC fumbling. Twice Vrabel hit JC unblocked and on the other fumble we had ey (a mediocre blocker) and CP (usually a good blocker but he had an injured hand) trying to block him. We were down and JC was just trying to make things happen. Brady fumbled in a similar fashion as JC (ball knocked loose while trying to throw). The only difference there was that Brady's line actually blocked for him today.

I have watched every game that Campbell has played. Campbell seems to make good decisions, that is what everyone raves about but he cannot put them into effect.Yes, Brady fumbled but Brady brought his team back.

The quarterback sets the tempo for the offense even when a game plan is bad. There is no tempo with the Redskins! If you say the offensive line, I will admit that it has an effect but Campbell still cannot lead. He supposedly worked so hard during the off season. This is about the 3rd time this year that he is supposed to have had his worst game as a professional.

Time will tell but I don't think Campbell will be anymore than a journeyman quarterback. Not because he doesn't have the skills or smarts, but because he cannot execute a game plan effectively. He cannot provide that spark when it is needed. Sonny Jurgenson could lift the team and make you believe that they could win. It is not something that you can teach, it is a natural talent, a gift that makes a leader. He is the quarterback, the leader and he cannot do it. Not once this year has the offense made me believe they could win even when they did. It always fells like I have to pray that the defense makes some special play to win the game.

The road to the NFL is littered with hundreds of great college players that should have been great NFL players, had great promise or had great skills but just could not get it together. I think this is the destiny of Jason Campbell.

I stand by my statement.

Some of what you say is true. But, isn't a lot of that due to the fact that very few QB's outside of BBM/P Manning call their own game these days. Every play for the most part, not counting audibles, is called by the Offensive Coordinator up in the booth? QB's like Sonny and the other great ones of those by gone days had a feel for the game and what plays were working and were truly field generals. These days, most QB's are on the field puppets with someone else calling the shots. Of course those that execute those directions does so better than others. And those with a better supporting cast around them have more success too.

I agree but I think the importance of the offensive line's health is magnified when you have a youngster back there because he simply needs more time to process what's going on. There are, of course, some vets in this league that could get by or more than get by with the Skins current situation, but I don't know any young QB that wouldn't be suffering just as much as Campbell is. Because of the lack of size of the receivers, his margin of error is small, and it's not like he can lean on the running game either.

Maybe it's just me, but I thought they went away from the pass-first too early on Sunday. The first drive was a success, even though it stalled just past midfield. JC looked fairly comfortable and they had something going. The second drive was not successful at all and it seemed like that plan A was scrapped right there and they went to trying to establish Portis. I wish they would've stuck with it for a little bit longer; it may have opened up an opportunity to run some draws or sneak in some different looks. The Patriots defense hasn't exactly been stingy this season; just seems like the Skins staff was a little too quick to change it up.

SCSkinsFan wrote:I also said years ago that the turning point for the Skins was when the drafted Mark May and Russ Grimm. We also found a pretty good free agent named Joe Jacoby. Adding them to incumbent George Starke and things started to change. The Skins then began to be the team that most fans on this board remember and hopes we can recreate. Before then? Not sure if I want to go back there, but things these days don't look much different.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Champsturf wrote:But if they do get open he misses them? Badly? Sorry, I like Campbell and all, but his play is not at a high level.

Not entirely accurate. Against Detroit JC completed 79.3 of his passes. Against Green Bay the number dropped to 56.8% but that was with 5 drops. Without the drops that number would've been 70.2%. Against Arizona he completed 66.7%. Those numbers are very good and show that JC's accuracy is steadily improving. Even in today's poor outing he completed nearly 60% of his passes. So his accuracy hasn't really been an issue. In fact, in the month of October JC is 10th in the NFL in completion % and 5th in the NFC in qb rating (87.4). Like the rest of the team he had his struggles today but coming into today's game he has been playing well for the last month.

Champsturf wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Champsturf wrote:But if they do get open he misses them? Badly? Sorry, I like Campbell and all, but his play is not at a high level.

Not entirely accurate. Against Detroit JC completed 79.3 of his passes. Against Green Bay the number dropped to 56.8% but that was with 5 drops. Without the drops that number would've been 70.2%. Against Arizona he completed 66.7%. Those numbers are very good and show that JC's accuracy is steadily improving. Even in today's poor outing he completed nearly 60% of his passes. So his accuracy hasn't really been an issue. In fact, in the month of October JC is 10th in the NFL in completion % and 5th in the NFC in qb rating (87.4). Like the rest of the team he had his struggles today but coming into today's game he has been playing well for the last month.

I will start by saying I am NOT a stats guy. So, I say screw those percentages. How many were short/high percentage passes? Most, I would bet. How many times this season has he missed a wide open receiver? Epecially on a deep route? Too many times, IMHO.

I really think the drops in the Packer game cost us much more than we would think. I don't think JC trusts any receivers anymore. That's a HUGE problem. Why else would he be throwing deep passes to Trash and not Moss? Also, too many passes into the flats (ala the 4th down play to Sellars when KMac was wide open.)

A lot of us complained that Brunell couldn't throw the deep stuff, so we were screwed. Now we have a QB that doesn't seem to be allowed to throw deep. I don't want a bomb every play, but c'mon, keep the D honest. No seam routes...nothing over 10 yards.

This team is too easy to defend, knowing that on 3rd down, they just try to get the first down, NOTHING more. Of course, that's after two running plays on 1st and 2nd downs. Just no innovation or inspiration even.

I like Campbell, but he needs to trust the WR's again, if he ever did. I still have a lot of hope for this kid.

Champsturf wrote:I agree that a tall WR would be nice, but we don't have one. However, these current WRs haven't gotten smaller, have they? It's the same group as last year (minus Lloyd for some reason...and Kmac SHOULD be in there) and he wasn't as high then with his passes...I just don't know the answer. I do know there is a problem.