Post game discussion: Redskins Defense vs Arizona Cardinals

[JCaptMorgan12]

not sure if this was mentioned, there were too many posts in this thread to read them all, but...

it is about time the Redskins got a win when, on paper, they were completely outplayed. Granted, the offense was bad, they need to let Campbell throw more to get into a rhythm (last two weeks his completion % is up, I believe), and allow the offense to spread the ball. However, the D played really good, can't blame them for what happened when they spend that much time on the field against a top RB and two of the better WR's in the league. But, back to my original point, there have been so many games in recent years that the Skins outgained the opponent 2-1 in yards, but lost the game. So, great win, and let's focus on the next game. It was the Redskins who ended the Pats winning streak a few years back, so let's do it again.

[Deadskins]

not sure if this was mentioned, there were too many posts in this thread to read them all, but...

it is about time the Redskins got a win when, on paper, they were completely outplayed. Granted, the offense was bad, they need to let Campbell throw more to get into a rhythm (last two weeks his completion % is up, I believe), and allow the offense to spread the ball. However, the D played really good, can't blame them for what happened when they spend that much time on the field against a top RB and two of the better WR's in the league. But, back to my original point, there have been so many games in recent years that the Skins outgained the opponent 2-1 in yards, but lost the game. So, great win, and let's focus on the next game. It was the Redskins who ended the Pats winning streak a few years back, so let's do it again.

I don't know about on paper, but on the field the Redskins dominated. The first two Cards' TDs were gifts (JC's poor pass on the screen, and two drive extending penalties). It should have never been close, but these are the Redskins we're talking about. Also the Skins didn't end the Pats winning streak, they were the last team to beat them before they went on said streak.

[absinthe1023]

Newsbreak folks....the Redskins finally won a game that they dominated early but should've lost late. It's amazing that the typical fan's mood was BETTER after the Green Bay loss than this win. The best team doesn't always win in the NFL....other factors (such as pure dumb luck) come into the mix.

With that being said: dire, out-of-hand predictions of a 30 point loss to the Patsys are simply ridiculous at this point.

Some points to consider and elaborate on regarding next week:

1. Rabach will probably play next week. Hopefully, I don't have to convince anyone that he is the linchpin of the line, particularly given its current makeshift status

2. Washington will probably play next week. Important for both his play and fiery leadership

3. The Pats have now walked over 7 teams in a row. They have basically locked up their division, and have spanked the Cowturds in a premier interconference battle. Will they have a full tank of emotion for the Skins? Are they ready for a letdown game?

4. The Pats have yet to play in inclement weather (this was mentioned during the Sunday night game). Their passing attack could possibly be affected by rain. Currently, weather.com lists a 40% chance of precipitation for Sunday's game.

5. Two parts:

a. the Pats have a gross imbalance on offense; stellar passing game and mediocre running game (with banged-up backs to boot)

b. the Pats have yet to face an elite defense. What happens when Brady gets pressured/hit? What happens the first time Welker goes across the middle from the slot and encounters LL? What happens when Moss is blanketed by ST as he has been in the past? What if a gimpy Maroney is forced to touch the ball 20+ times on runs/checkdowns?

This post is long enough. I look forward to seeing some discussion and hearing other viewpoints, but there's simply no way this game is a guaranteed walkover for NE, except in Vegas and the national media....

[roybus14]

abs, I hear you.

A couple of things to consider:

1. The Pats are beatable but not by their own doing. They are too confident and too well coached for that. Plus Billy has them thinking with that "blow you out" mentally. Evident yesterday when the backup threw a pick and they were still up by 14, he put Brady back in and they stepped on the gas.

2. We would not be 17 point underdogs if our offense wasn't so inept. If the offense was consistent and used it's talent the way it's supposed to, the line would probably be even or 7 instead of 17. The only thing missing from this year's team is an offense. We have the talent there, the coaches not the players, have to believe in it and stop making excuses and open things up.

3. Joe Gibbs has to let Al Saunders have full control this week and let him play chess with Belicheck. Open things up and let er' rip..


Here are some stats on Al Saunders OC'd teams from 2001 to 2005

- From 2001 to 2005 KC played NE three times going 1-2. In the two losses, NE scored 68 points to KC's 57. In the lone win, KC beat NE in 2005 26-16.

- Number of games KC scored 20+ points:
2001 - 8
2002 - 12
2003 - 14
2004 - 13
2005 - 13

The problems with KC during those years was their defense. Scoring was never a problem. The year (2003) they went 13-3 and lost to Indy in the divisional playoffs, the Colts scored 38 on their defense. The offense scored 31. Priest Holmes rushed for 176 yards on 24 carries and scored twice. Their defense just couldn't stop anybody. We have a defense that can stop people but it seems as though there is confusion and a power struggle on the offense and it's gonna kill this team and the season if they don't get it together....

[Deadskins]

Betting lines are set to get even money on both sides. The line is a reflection of the general public's perception of the two teams. In other words, ESPN's and the other network's hyping of the Patriots has led to a false image of how competitive this game is going to be. I would definitely take the Redskins and the points.

[Justice Hog]

Once again, I just don't have the time to read all of the posts in this thread so I'll just post my comments here. If they are repeat - my bad:

First, Campbell had a horrible day. I swear, he really need to improve his short-medium range passing skills. They're horrible right now. I also didn't like the fact that we didn't go down field on any long balls all day long. Very dissapointing.

Second, this team needs to realize that Chris ey is a vital part of our offense. When he is active in the offensive game plan, this team has a much better chance of winning. When he's not, we don't. Come on Al Saunders, wake up and smell the coffee!

Third, our defense was great, once again. The only reason the Cardinals were in this game at the end was because of those damn bogus "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" calls against the Skins - after we stopped them on 3rd down.....TWICE!!! I thank the REFs for giving the Cardinals the TD in that drive. Very frustrating!!!

Finally, who in the heck taught our special teams how to recover an onsides kick!?!?!?! Aren't you supposed to attack the ball!?!?!? Do they know that we're allowed to touch the ball before it goes 10 yards. That was freakin' pathetic! Skins are luck to walk away with a win in this one, folks.

In conclusion, this game was sloppy. It was messy; however, a win is a win is a win is a win is a win.

We're now 4 -2 coming up against the Pats.

Expecting 4 - 3 after that game; however, how knows! What do they say about "any given Sunday?"

[USAFSkinFan]

run run pass
run run pass
run pass run
run run pass

this kind of play calling is setting Campbell up for failure... the only time he gets to pass the ball is in known passing situations... even Brady would have a tough time if that's the way NE ran their offense...

[SkinsJock]

Unfortunately I could not watch this game but from all reports it sounds so typical - we have a game that we should win but at the end it's another typical Redskins' win - a game we should have lost against a team we shouldn't have lost to

The reality is:
we managed to win the Miami game but did not play that well and at the end they could have stolen a game that we should have won
we really should have beaten both the giants and the packers, we could have and should have won both games

We are now playing with an offensive line that is not giving us many options at all and this week is against a team that looks really scary - we may end up 4-3 after this week but it definetly wont be a 2 touchdown win for NE - I think they will win but our D will not be that bad.

We could even get lucky - hey! last year Miami beat NE 21-0 in Miami with Joey Harrington passing for about 200 yards against that defense

anything can happen BUT we need to get something together offensively

[spenser]

However, Gibbs went entirely too vanilla.

Saying the playcalling was Vanilla is an insult to Ice cream everywhere

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Loved the quote from CP in the Paper today

"If we ever get 11 guys healthy together on offense and defense, we're going to cause somebody trouble. But, for now, we'll battle."

[dlc]

run run pass
run run pass
run pass run
run run pass

this kind of play calling is setting Campbell up for failure... the only time he gets to pass the ball is in known passing situations... even Brady would have a tough time if that's the way NE ran their offense...

Although not a big fan of Larry Johnson, he did make a good point. The game does have some very confusing intracacies to it, but it's sometimes made too complicated. When you do that you miss the obvious. Run when they think you're going to pass. Pass when you think they're going to run. Go right when they think you'll get left, go deep when they think you'll go short, etc...

Not until we master this, should we start with the complexities that follow. I think our offense is out-thinking themselves (whether it's Gibbs or Saunders). Does it matter which left gap we run it in when we have Bruschi knowing that we're running left? Good players will adjust to those details. Yes we have a piece-meal line, but why worsen things by making the play-calling much more predictable. Conservatism actually makes line-play harder, not easier. When you run on 1st and pass on 3rd at such a high frequency, the d-line and LBs know when to stay disciplined and move the 8th in the box and when to pull stunts and tee off on the QB.

[SkinsFreak]

run run pass
run run pass
run pass run
run run pass

this kind of play calling is setting Campbell up for failure... the only time he gets to pass the ball is in known passing situations... even Brady would have a tough time if that's the way NE ran their offense...

Although not a big fan of Larry Johnson, he did make a good point. The game does have some very confusing intracacies to it, but it's sometimes made too complicated. When you do that you miss the obvious. Run when they think you're going to pass. Pass when you think they're going to run. Go right when they think you'll get left, go deep when they think you'll go short, etc...

Not until we master this, should we start with the complexities that follow. I think our offense is out-thinking themselves (whether it's Gibbs or Saunders). Does it matter which left gap we run it in when we have Bruschi knowing that we're running left? Good players will adjust to those details. Yes we have a piece-meal line, but why worsen things by making the play-calling much more predictable. Conservatism actually makes line-play harder, not easier. When you run on 1st and pass on 3rd at such a high frequency, the d-line and LBs know when to stay disciplined and move the 8th in the box and when to pull stunts and tee off on the QB.

Both comments are right on. I can only hope that maybe they're saving some stuff for the Pat's game.

[CanesSkins26]

First, Campbell had a horrible day. I swear, he really need to improve his short-medium range passing skills. They're horrible right now. I also didn't like the fact that we didn't go down field on any long balls all day long. Very dissapointing.

Maybe I'm missing something but JC did complete 66.7% of his passes yesterday, going 12 of 18, and he had 3 balls dropped on him. He didn't get a lot of opportunities to throw the ball but I didn't see a problem with the throws that he did make. His accuracy has vastly improved as the season has gone on.

Second, this team needs to realize that Chris ey is a vital part of our offense. When he is active in the offensive game plan, this team has a much better chance of winning. When he's not, we don't. Come on Al Saunders, wake up and smell the coffee!

Agree 100% here. I only remember 2 balls going his way yesterday. Perhaps he was being kept in to block more with the problems on the oline. But either way the coaches need to find a way to get him the ball at least 5 or 6 times a game, preferably more.

Third, our defense was great, once again. The only reason the Cardinals were in this game at the end was because of those damn bogus "Unsportsmanlike Conduct" calls against the Skins - after we stopped them on 3rd down.....TWICE!!! I thank the REFs for giving the Cardinals the TD in that drive. Very frustrating!!!

Fletcher said in post game that he was trying to pump up the crowd, not taunt the Cards sideline. However, he probably should know better. If he turns in any other direction there isn't a penalty. Landry's penalty was legit. The ball was already on the ground before Landry even dove at the game. I'm sure GW will rip him a new one for that penalty in film review.

Finally, who in the heck taught our special teams how to recover an onsides kick!?!?!?! Aren't you supposed to attack the ball!?!?!? Do they know that we're allowed to touch the ball before it goes 10 yards. That was freakin' pathetic! Skins are luck to walk away with a win in this one, folks.

Special teams as a whole were horrible yesterday. A missed kick, a blocked punt, bad punts, short kickoffs, and not recovering an onside kick. They really couldn't have done any worse yesterday. The onside kick play was embarrassing. Honestly the guys that we had out there didn't look like they even tried to get the ball. More than anything it just looked like they didn't want to get hit. Sellers, ey, and Betts just stood there watching the ball bounce around. The coaches need to fix these special teams problems asap.

[Deadskins]

First, Campbell had a horrible day. I swear, he really need to improve his short-medium range passing skills. They're horrible right now. I also didn't like the fact that we didn't go down field on any long balls all day long. Very dissapointing.

Maybe I'm missing something but JC did complete 66.7% of his passes yesterday, going 12 of 18, and he had 3 balls dropped on him. He didn't get a lot of opportunities to throw the ball but I didn't see a problem with the throws that he did make. His accuracy has vastly improved as the season has gone on.

JC had one bad pass yesterday, and it was intercepted. Other than that he played very well.

Special teams as a whole were horrible yesterday. A missed kick, a blocked punt, bad punts, short kickoffs, and not recovering an onside kick. They really couldn't have done any worse yesterday. The onside kick play was embarrassing. Honestly the guys that we had out there didn't look like they even tried to get the ball. More than anything it just looked like they didn't want to get hit. Sellers, ey, and Betts just stood there watching the ball bounce around. The coaches need to fix these special teams problems asap.

They did block an extra point, which proved to be the difference in the game. Also, no one was standing around on the on-sides kick. The first wave of Cardinals blocked our guys out of the picture, which is how you execute that play these days. They did it well. That being said one of the Cardinals players was offsides, but wasn't called for it.

[SKINFAN]

they were standing around to get hit or blocked, they were on react mode when they should've been on attack mode.

[CanesSkins26]

They did block an extra point, which proved to be the difference in the game. Also, no one was standing around on the on-sides kick. The first wave of Cardinals blocked our guys out of the picture, which is how you execute that play these days. They did it well. That being said one of the Cardinals players was offsides, but wasn't called for it.

Going to have to disagree. Even Gibbs said in his news conference yesterday that some of the players on the onside kick were being too "cautious." That sounds like Gibbs' nice way of saying they weren't aggressive enough. Go back and watch the tape and you'll see Betts, ey, and several other players just standing there watching the ball bounce around. The Cardinals were far more aggressive and looked more prepared during the onside kick than any of our players.

[Deadskins]

They did block an extra point, which proved to be the difference in the game. Also, no one was standing around on the on-sides kick. The first wave of Cardinals blocked our guys out of the picture, which is how you execute that play these days. They did it well. That being said one of the Cardinals players was offsides, but wasn't called for it.

Going to have to disagree. Even Gibbs said in his news conference yesterday that some of the players on the onside kick were being too "cautious." That sounds like Gibbs' nice way of saying they weren't aggressive enough. Go back and watch the tape and you'll see Betts, ey, and several other players just standing there watching the ball bounce around. The Cardinals were far more aggressive and looked more prepared during the onside kick than any of our players.

They were. I've gone back and re-watched the play several times now. We did not play it correctly. Just as they had a wave of people trying to move our guys out of the way, we should have a front line of blockers to give the "hands" guys a chance to field the ball. All of our guys, except ey were trying to catch the ball, and were easily blocked out of the area where it was recovered.

[SCSkinsFan]

Well we could try to talk SCSkinsfan into driving over to the local high school and throwing the coach in his in his trunk, I could meet ya half way to save on gas. Last time I checked he was the winningest football coach ever , at any level. Just a thought.

Maybe we dont need to be that drastic, lets see how we recover from injuries this week, barring anything stupid in practice we should be as close to 100% since the week we lost Thomas. If this was truly the reason we played the way we did today, Itll show.

Big ups for Coach McKissick and the Summerville Green Wave. He is, in fact, as you said, the winningest coach at any level. And, he and Coach Gibbs also have a lot in common. With all the success he has had, whenever they don't win the state championship, or lose a couple games during a season, he hears the same things Coach Gibbs hears. Detractors say he is too old, the game as passed him by, he can't relate with todays players, etc.

[dmwc]

I just want to say that I just watch the game on NFL Replay...

What was up with the no holding calls in the first half on ARI... THere were 3 obvious calls that were not made... I dont think we got lucky... the DEF missed a some tackles nd the O well we know what they didnt do...

But we still won so

HAIL!

[Deadskins]

I just want to say that I just watch the game on NFL Replay...

What was up with the no holding calls in the first half on ARI... THere were 3 obvious calls that were not made... I dont think we got lucky... the DEF missed a some tackles nd the O well we know what they didnt do...

But we still won so

HAIL!

I don't know about the 1st half, but their second TD, in the early minutes of the 4th quarter, where Warner seemingly ran around forever, was the product of two holds and a block in the back.

[SKINFAN]

I just want to say that I just watch the game on NFL Replay...

What was up with the no holding calls in the first half on ARI... THere were 3 obvious calls that were not made... I dont think we got lucky... the DEF missed a some tackles nd the O well we know what they didnt do...

But we still won so

HAIL!

I don't know about the 1st half, but their second TD, in the early minutes of the 4th quarter, where Warner seemingly ran around forever, was the product of two holds and a block in the back.

he ran around so long coz carlos had somebody on lockdown, yup that's right "LOs has turned the corner, LoL.... We keep trying to find ways to Lose, which is a vast improvement from last year where we couldn't find a way to win.

[Chris Luva Luva]

We need fast defensive linemen, they are slow as molasses. LOL

[jmooney]

Yep, youre right Chris. This D was built for the D-line to contain the run and keep it turned inside. Problem is, nobody in our division runs the way they used to. Philly airs it out , Tiki is gone from NY and Dallas has become New Englad south (without the defense). Fortunately for us , from the LB's back, we have more than enough speed to cover this up. Hell, come to think of it, who has a dominant running attack in the NFL right now?

[SKINFAN]

We need fast defensive linemen, they are slow as molasses. LOL

LMAO, they're slow so they trip runs down the middle. We like em like that...

Seriously, Andre Carter's got speed, he's our prototype for next year I think, Evens is coming up and we have 'Zo (Alexander) on the wings, these guys have speed, what they lack is instinct, killer instinct to be exact, by years end, they will develop it and we'll have our Speed defense and GW can run crazy formations, until then we're stuck with cover 2.

[1niksder]

Don't sleep on Wilson