Brandon Lloyd situation looks worse and worse...

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:11 pm

Guys it is pathetic to give up on a guy after three weeks. Another note, it has only been one loss and yet so many are panicing here. Come on fellas.

Give Lloyd a chance is all I ask. Give this offense some time, give J.C. some time they will get better. Remember the past few years ? We finally have some stability our passing game will get better maybe even stellar.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:05 am

HEROHAMO wrote:Guys it is pathetic to give up on a guy after three weeks. Another note, it has only been one loss and yet so many are panicing here. Come on fellas.

Give Lloyd a chance is all I ask. Give this offense some time, give J.C. some time they will get better. Remember the past few years ? We finally have some stability our passing game will get better maybe even stellar.

Has it been only three games? Or is it eighteen?

But for the record, I do think Lloyd has been blackballed. And even though he has a reputation, the organization is doing themselves a great disservice by casting this guy aside, especially so soon. If they knew they weren't going to give him a shot, why keep him on the roster at all? Why activate him? It's all extremely disappointing.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:07 am

JansenFan wrote:And on that note, would we prefer that Lloyd go the TO wrote and scream for the ball or denegrate teammates in the media or call JC gay for not throwing him the ball?

If Lloyd would go that route, it would be just plain silly. My 2 cents

While I don't condone TO's m.o., at least Owens is an elite receiver and can get away with it (sort of). Lloyd is not and would not.

C'mon, Lloyd=T.O.???!!! :lol:

Not hatin' on Lloyd, just sayin'...

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:14 am

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
JansenFan wrote:And on that note, would we prefer that Lloyd go the TO wrote and scream for the ball or denegrate teammates in the media or call JC gay for not throwing him the ball?

If Lloyd would go that route, it would be just plain silly.

While I don't condone TO's m.o., at least Owens is an elite receiver and can get away with it (sort of). Lloyd is not and would not.

C'mon, Lloyd=T.O.???!!!

Not hatin' on Lloyd, just sayin'...

Marvin Harrison is an elite receiver. Yet he doesn't act like a two-year old when Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark get the ball thrown their way. Owens is a selfish piece of crap who can only get along if he's getting the damn ball. Lloyd doesn't remotely fit this mold. Even the media hasn't been able to get a sound byte out of him. This situation can only be resolved by the coaching staff acting their ages. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:33 am

How can you NOT assume that if Lloyd was performing to the standards they have set for him that he WOULD NOT be playing? If you have a efficient, prodcuvtive player and then you bench him, you'd be considered an idiot by many. I am not saying that Lloyd is the only flaw in this system, but since that's the subject at hand, then that's what I will discuss, BASED ON MY OPINIONS AS A FAN.

I really don't see how me pointing out a weak link and defending my opinion makes me a pseudo-fan. Just because I'm not like some complete morons saying, before pre-season even freakin started mind you, "16-0 WE'RE TAKING THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!" I have never been one to have lofty and dreamy expectations, so you'll have to excuse me. If you have something personal against me, that's your deal, don't attack me here. I'm not the only one that shares these views.

Maybe I've not put it here as much as I've talked about Lloyd, but since you brought it up, here's my My 2 cents

:

JC: needs to put a little more touch and a little less zip. He's killing people on those balls that are a little off. A bullet slightly behind a receiver is a bear to catch. Faster on the reads and control the short-medium range balls. They go crazy at times.

CP & Betts: THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. 'nuff said. Rest CP until his knee's okay. He's an integral part of our offense.

Moss and the receiving corps: Even though JC throws a bullet, you gotta catch those balls. The more you catch, the better rapport that you will have with JC and it gets nothing but better.

O-line : It's not really their fault. Injuries are killing us and they haven't had time to gel, but they really need to step it up.

D line : more consistant pressure. The Giants game esp, we had issues with their BACK-UP RB.

LBs : looking pretty good IMO. Shoring up the shortcomings between D-line and 2ndary I imagine is a tough job.

2ndary : everything short of tackling is the coaching IMO. Missed coverages here and there, but I've been content (until the Giants 2nd half) with what we've done now that I have a better idea of it's strengths and weaknesses.

Coaching: too predictable and too conservative. Scared money makes no money, and that's what we're suffering from. Good simple example.

Do I think we're doomed? Heck no. Do I think we have a lot of room for improvement? heck yea. I don't see why I can't see deficiencies in a team and not comment on them. I think we have enough delusional people here where I don't have to say stupid stuff like, "JC is gonna be great!!!!!" I have said it, and I think he will, after some time. I think we've all come to the conclusion that he has the potential to be great, and he is improving every week IMO. Lloyd, on the other hand, is NOT improving and was DEMOTED from last year. Based on my astute observations from that, coupled with the fact that he was the league's worst starter in terms of starting WR receptions. With other details which I've observed and my own personal opinion, this is my stance.

Heyer, as stated by the coaching staff, is our back up for LEFT TACKLE, so he shouldn't BE starting at right tackle. It's called a depth chart.

Your extreme examples to show your animosity towards me is a bit childish... I've not attacked you that I can recall and really don't see the reason. You like to pick arguments and hound people with extreme and out of context examples such as you've done with me, and it's rather amusing. On slow days like today, keep it coming.

SkinsFreak · Post by **SkinsFreak** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:38 am

GSPODS wrote:
REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
JansenFan wrote:And on that note, would we prefer that Lloyd go the TO wrote and scream for the ball or denegrate teammates in the media or call JC gay for not throwing him the ball?

If Lloyd would go that route, it would be just plain silly.

While I don't condone TO's m.o., at least Owens is an elite receiver and can get away with it (sort of). Lloyd is not and would not.

C'mon, Lloyd=T.O.???!!!

Not hatin' on Lloyd, just sayin'...

Marvin Harrison is an elite receiver. Yet he doesn't act like a two-year old when Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark get the ball thrown their way. Owens is a selfish piece of crap who can only get along if he's getting the damn ball. Lloyd doesn't remotely fit this mold. Even the media hasn't been able to get a sound byte out of him. This situation can only be resolved by the coaching staff acting their ages. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Brian Mitchell made an interesting argument last night. He said the fact that Lloyd hasn't spoken up may be an indication that he simply doesn't care. A childish tantrum is one thing, but Mitchell said that if he was a teammate or a fan, he'd at least like to hear Lloyd speak up to some degree, as a sign that he really does care and has a huge desire to get involved.

If it were me, I would humble myself, apologize to everyone, regardless of who's fault it is, and make every effort to show the coaches and my teammates that I'm serious about being a team player and a solid contributor to this organization.

Now, I'm not saying he isn't taking that approach, none of us really know what's going on behind closed doors, but I would hope that EVERYONE would man-up and let bygones be bygones and start moving in a positive direction. That goes for the coaching staff and the front office as well. I believe they are just as much to blame for all this crap.

Everyone deserves a second chance and I hope Lloyd gets it and takes advantage of it. I'm still pulling for the kid.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:53 am

When a fan assumes that fan makes an ass out of you and me. ass u me. As far as being considered an idiot by many, have you seen the number of posts calling for Joe Gibbs' head? I never said anything about having unrealistic expectations. No team is going 16-0.

What is out of context? Either everyone who has failed deserves criticism or everyone gets a free pass. Selective criticism is prejudicial. For every one post criticizing coaching, management or ownership, there are at least 25 posts calling for Brandon Lloyd's head. If the team were to cut Brandon Lloyd today nothing would be resolved.

The song remains the same with this team's handling of player-personnel issues, regardless of who is singing the tune. If Lloyd is cut this team will find the next scapegoat, and fans like yourself will jump right on the bandwagon.

How about jumping on the Joe Gibbs' past does not buy him an indefinite free pass bandwagon? Or the Al Saunders isn't doing what he was brought here for bandwagon?

I have no animosity toward you. Animosity would mean I somehow care about you personally. I assure you I don't. I simply want you to defend your selective criticism of one player. At this point in time your argument is not holding water.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:12 am

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
JansenFan wrote:And on that note, would we prefer that Lloyd go the TO wrote and scream for the ball or denegrate teammates in the media or call JC gay for not throwing him the ball?

If Lloyd would go that route, it would be just plain silly.

While I don't condone TO's m.o., at least Owens is an elite receiver and can get away with it (sort of). Lloyd is not and would not.

C'mon, Lloyd=T.O.???!!!

Not hatin' on Lloyd, just sayin'...

I'm not sure where I said B. Lloyd = TO. If you can show me, I'll gladly retract it. As a matter of fact, the argument I made is that he doesn't act like TO, so even if you were to infer that I was talking about the two as players, my post states exactly the opposite of your assertion.

Nice try though.

My point is, for a guy who is supposedly a locker room cancer, you certainly can't find any media bytes of him bad-mouthing his teammates (ala pulling a TO, which means to call out your teammates in the media)

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:22 am

Some of the posters are acting as angry and really dumb Philthy fans (and this is my lowest criticism ever). This thread has to be one of the worst I have ever witnessed in this website, which one would otherwise understand to be a compliment to THN.

Losing , whether it is one game, one season or over a decade, brings anger and frustration to many of us. The Redskins are important to all of us. Why would many of you try to unload your accumulated frustrations on a single scapegoat? Do you take some pleasure from it? Is this your way to contribute to the morale of the team or the mental attitude of your fellow fans here? Are these personal attacks constructive in any way in order to help us understand the nature of the Skins plans or preparation for future games? :roll:

I -simply- fail to see -any- constructive aspect about the destructive and rather vile behaviour of some of you. Shameful. Really shameful. :evil:

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:32 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:Some of the posters are acting as angry and really dumb Philthy fans (and this is my lowest criticism ever). This thread has to be one of the worst I have ever witnessed in this website, which one would otherwise understand to be a compliment to THN.

Honestly, I blame it on the bye week. Had they played on Sunday and Lloyd had the monster day he's had pent up inside for so long, this would have been put to rest.

I move that the bye-week never ever fall again within the first 4 weeks. It only leads to Skins withdrawal to early in the season. :idea:

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:49 am

Here's something to chew on:

Our Director of Player Development was one of the most acrobatic WRs in NFL history. And just so happened to be under our Coach, Joe Gibbs, for a few seasons during the "Air Coryell" era.

With that being said, I know that JJ has his role and we have a receivers coach in Stan Hixon but I wonder has JJ reached out to Lloyd to offer advice. Lloyd is also known for his spectacular catches and right now, he's not on the field or getting more opportunities than what he has had to show that.

As fans, we can only assume, speculate, guess, estimate, and "stay at a Holiday Inn last night" but we will never really know why this guy is where he is.

Doc Walker asked Ernest "E.B." Byner this morning on his show about why this offense with it's talent is not putting up more numbers than other teams around the league with equal to or less talent (position by position). E.B. said that we are getting there. But I think that there is something to it and I wonder every weekend we play the same thing. If we have this talent, Lloyd included, and a so-called offensive guru, why are we not putting up the numbers??? And if Lloyd has the talent, then why is he not being used????

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:52 am

Honestly, I think we are just seeing a young qb learning the ropes. Watch JC on passing plays. Other than the obligatory look off right before he throws, JC looks to the half of the field with Moss on it. Part of the reason B. Lloyd (and Thrash, for that matter) sees so few opportunities in the passing game is because typically in three receiver sets, Moss and El are on the right and Lloyd is in man coverage on the left. Ideally, JC will notice this man coverage on Lloyd and exploit it.

Let's face it. Half the job of the #2 in this offense is to take pressure off of Moss. If you never throw it to the number 2 guy, Lloyd or Thrash or Caldwell or McCardell will never be able to perform this part of their job.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am

JansenFan wrote:...and that is the million dollar question.

IF, and this is the -BIGGEST- if of all, Brandon Lloyd resumes his show with us, it would be make NATIONAL news on all NFL outlets. Just sayn' :wink:

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:02 am

That is unlikely. He and I talked at great length, and he decided (and I agree) that right now, the best thing he can do for himself and for theHogs.net is to focus on football.

And just a side bar on that subject, for those of you who continue to make comments about 'Focusing on his rap career,' let it be known that he only writes and records his music during the off-season.

It's just more hate fueled by the media that tries to sensationalize the news for better ratings. Let's face it. Probably the biggest recurring story in all forms of media is centered around the fourth string receiver. Does that make sense to anyone? It doesn't to me.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:03 am

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:Honestly, I blame it on the bye week. Had they played on Sunday and Lloyd had the monster day he's had pent up inside for so long, this would have been put to rest.

I move that the bye-week never ever fall again within the first 4 weeks. It only leads to Skins withdrawal to early in the season.

No, I blame this WHOLE situation on the outcome of ONE play, the interception against the Dolphins.

Brandon Lloyd is too valuable as a player and a huge investment to the Skins to allow himself or to allow the Skins to derail his tenure with us just for a bad outcome whose fault might be shared among beyond just Jason and Brandon.

Nothing like a good game to erase the memory of a bad play. (place your favourite four-letter word here) happens. Get over it fans!

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:27 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:Get over it fans!

... and coaches. My 2 cents

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:34 am

You're the one that labeled my opinion an assumption. I never said I assume anything. You're coy play on words isn't even cute.

I've been one of the ones that have said the game has passed Gibbs by as well. He's not performing as he did in his first tenure. I hope we can agree that this is beyond an assumption.

I have, in fact, criticized more than just Lloyd, but as I've stated previously, he seems to be the hot topic, hence the attention as of late. The extreme example you used was me criticizing a lineman for having a broken dislocation. Quite absurd if you ask me.

Simply sharing an opinion does not constitute being on a bandwagon 100% of the time.

As for your JG/AS argument, I've stated previously as well that ONE MAN needs to take control of the offense, and until ONE MAN does, then we will suffer.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:59 am

If by suffer you mean win two lose one every 3 games, then I welcome suffering.!

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:19 pm

SKINFAN wrote:If by suffer you mean win two lose one every 3 games, then I welcome suffering.!

I think by suffering he means having the 22nd ranked scoring offense in the NFL, averaging a pathetic 17.7 points a game.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:25 pm

The Skins love to get high profile people and not utilize their talent.

Al Saunders and Lloyd are the current victims. :lol:

*pot stirred

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:59 pm

CLL, nice way to stir there :evil:

I belive AS would do better without JG 'influence.' He seemed to do well before get got here... that's why big daddy Dan Bucks brought him in I thought. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians IMO.

Mursilis · Post by **Mursilis** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:29 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:CLL, nice way to stir there I belive AS would do better without JG 'influence.' He seemed to do well before get got here... that's why big daddy Dan Bucks brought him in I thought. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians IMO.

Dan Snyder did NOT bring in Al Saunders - Joe Gibbs did. JG personally recruited AS to help bring the offense up to date, because up until last year, the offense always lagged behind the defense.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:45 pm

<sigh> I am sure that Dan had nothing to do with it, being an interactive owner. God, what was I thinking. My apologies.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:25 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:I've been one of the ones that have said the game has passed Gibbs by as well. He's not performing as he did in his first tenure. I hope we can agree that this is beyond an assumption.

Thank you very much for the knowledgeable input. And this is a point you want to use to get us to give some respect for your other views? (four letter word expletive) it!

People like you can go back to the hole you crawled out of. Nice meeting you. You know how far you can really go now. We can do quite easily without "fans" like you berating their players and their coaches. When Joe Gibbs says "We are in this together" he means the ones that CHOOSE to be together with him. As far as I am concerned you can go out and cheer for the Pukes and the whole line of opponents. You are not posting as a fan. You are posting as an angry old man. This is not a mental health facility for senior citizens.

rick301 · Post by **rick301** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:30 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:I've been one of the ones that have said the game has passed Gibbs by as well. He's not performing as he did in his first tenure. I hope we can agree that this is beyond an assumption.
Thank you very much for the knowledgeable input. And this is a point you want to use to get us to give some respect for your other views? (four letter word expletive) it!

People like you can go back to the hole you crawled out of. Nice meeting you. You know how far you can really go now. We can do quite easily without "fans" like you berating their players and their coaches. When Joe Gibbs says "We are in this together" he means the ones that CHOOSE to be together with him. As far as I am concerned you can go out and cheer for the Pukes and the whole line of opponents. You are not posting as a fan. You are posting as an angry old man. This is not a mental health facility for senior citizens.

Joe's job this time around is much tougher - the team was much much more dysfunctional after numerous head & assistant coaching changes, multiple QBs, ownership change, ect. Joe has turned this team around. Its not perfect - yet but it does seem to be on the right track.