The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gnome wrote:I'm no FO apologists (close though) - but before this thread turns into a rant about GM's - tell how many teams in how many leagues have GMs and still suck and still make idiotic moves and perpetually bad? GM doesn't stand for Guru Magic - a GM in the Skins front office would be just another employee in the FO who answered to his boss, the owner. You want a GM. I want a date with Jessica Simpson.

Now - back to Briggs - the more I think about it the more I love it as I stated earlier.

Good point. If Gibbs had been brought back as the GM rather than the coach, I seriously doubt anyone would've had a problem with it. We would've been jumping for glory just the same. (I mean those who are old enough know and appreciate who Gibbs is, or was, at that point. )

Back to Briggs. The more I think about it, the more I tend to be on the fence, if that makes any sense. I can appreciate both sides of the debate. I remember Williams saying at the end of last season that he intends to make some scheme changes on defense. If they did, in fact, make this trade, I would wonder if this is a part of that. Someone mentioned the fact that no defensive linemen have been brought in so far in free agency. I don't know, we'll have to wait and see I think we are all a bit mystified at this early stage, at least I am.

Gnome wrote:We usually do okay in trades - Moss, Portis, trading up for Campbell.

To counterpoint, Brandon Lloyd, TJ Duckett and Rocky McIntosh (bye this years second rounder) have all been trades that haven't paid at all.

About everyone talking about a 3-4 scheme change, there's a problem with that. We may have linebackers enough for it, but our defensive linemen will NOT fit that scheme. We don't have a nosetackle on our team (Griffin isn't that kind of player), and our defensive ends aren't big enough.

i think gregg williams will come up with some sort of scheme to get all of these guys involved. is it a waste of money to bring in lance briggs and sign him to a huge contract at this point? yes, it is, unless he agrees to a cap-friendly deal (as cap friendly as possible for a player of his caliber). We are paying our linebackers a lot of money, but I think the coaches will find a way to work all of them into the lineup, maybe not for even playing time but to keep all of them fresh and as fast as possible. they are all smart guys, and if they can pick up this scheme, if you can call it that, i think it will work to our advantage. it will be interesting to see, regardless!

I just heard on NFL Live that the Bears and the Redskins are talkin and a deal is on the table and the Redskins is pushin hard, but the Bears are a little skeptical to pull the trigger so fast,because the rumor was out before they even spoke to the Redskins

I do not think that getting Briggs is a good idea. Why not just get a great pass rushing defensive lineman at #6? The d-line will free up the linebackers we have already. The lbs will have more freedom. Making the secondary better. The game is won on the line.

MyrtleBeachRedskin wrote:I do not think that getting Briggs is a good idea. Why not just get a great pass rushing defensive lineman at #6? The d-line will free up the linebackers we have already. The lbs will have more freedom. Making the secondary better. The game is won on the line.

Because that would make entirely too much sense.

This is just about the most insane thing I've ever heard or read. There are absolutely no logical reasons to trade for Briggs, a player that we don't need, with an apparent attitude problem that we need even less.

Changing to a 3-4? Laughable - does anyboy know who our nose tackle would be? And Andre Carter certainly can't play in a 3-4, unless you move him to outside linebacker. In which case, you're talking about switching either Briggs or Washington inside in order to play Carter on the outside. And that would make a world of sense, of course - trade for a player you don't need, change the defensive system entirely, move another one or two players out of position, and then we'll be a top 10 defence all over again...

It is utterly bizarre that this would even go beyond a nanosecond of consideration by the Redskins. I refuse to believe that Gibbs would sanction the move.

Bull. Complete and utter bull.

But notice, I didn't actually say that it definitely won't happen.

So all you guys who think this is nuts would rather pick an untested rookie defensive lineman at #6 and start a 2 yr, untested, couldn't crack the starting line-up McIntosh at WLB - instead of nabbing the #31 pick and a two time pro-bowler at WLB that is in his prime?

We'd still have a 1st round pick and a pro-bowl WLB.

The Bears would be fools to make this trade, not the Redskins.

Heck, the Skins could turn around and trade Briggs for a handfull of draft choices and end up with a fistful of choices in the draft.

I say this is pure genius!

skinsfano28 wrote:i think gregg williams will come up with some sort of scheme to get all of these guys involved.

Because the guy who brought out the best in Adam Archuleta can definitely do the same to Lance Briggs!

I have been watching this board for a long time now and have never posted but i have to post on this one.

Its funny I was swear that everyone coached in the nfl and was a GM at one time if not are a true physic.

Its funny how everyone says we are going to over pay, how do you know I believe he will get a pro bowl salary but thats what he is deserved. that don't mean we overpayed because he is a pro bowl player in his prime which we haven't accured in a long time.

Second I hear what if he comes in and is a bust you can say that about any player included london flecther but nobody was complaining about that one, You just don't know so give it a chance

Third there is no defensive end or defensive tackle worthy in the 6 overall pick that would be worthy of that type of money on unproven skills on the pro level I don't see any of them coming in starting right away and putting up peppers number like his rookie year.

and finally forth have faith in Joe and gregg williams everybody was happy to get joe back and have gregg williams let them make the decisions and before we slam them lets see how its works out. Ask you self this question will Lance Briggs help our defense or hurt it I think probably help it, pro bowler and in his prime. It may be that gregg williams don't see enough talent in rock and marshall as far as cover skills which briggs has few in his class.

You never know briggs might come in hear pick off 6 passes and get 10 sacks then you all would be man that was a good deal. GIVE IT A CHANCE


Thats enough of me GO SKINS

charles.ellis24 wrote:You never know briggs might come in hear pick off 6 passes and get 10 sacks then you all would be man that was a good deal. GIVE IT A CHANCE

I'm with you. I was surprised when the story broke that we'd be going for a LB, but he's a stud and only 26. With Briggs, Fletcher and Washington starting and Rocky and Marshall et al for depth we could be really strong in the middle. And we still have a first round pick.

I say if it's true we give it a chance.

Ya Know, I saw this first thing this morning and I have been thinking about it . There is a good chance that we will run a 3-4 defense instead of the 4-3. with all these LB's you really dont need a lot of DE depth.

We obviously pay our coaches for nothing...whatever happened to having the coach develop and train their own players and groom them into stars?

Adopting the "build through free agency model" essentially says, I would rather pay more for a proven commodity, than pay less for a cheaper but raw talent.

There are hits and misses in both methods, but if you are going to have such a highly compensated coaching staff, it would seem that you would be more willing to bring in talented youn players and have you 5 million dollar coach, "coach them".

I just don't get it.

Briggs will command a big salary...why trade up for Rocky if you don't think he can play?

We have a flawed approach from the braintrust of Snyder and Cerrato the talking parrot.

Does anyone trust Cerrato to evaluate the players available at 31 and make a good pick??? Anyone?

CE-24,

Welcome..... Good observations but no here has professed to being a coach or gm. We are fans just like you who are just giving their opinions. I for one am on the fence with the whole Briggs thing not because of the "what if he's a bust...." or whatever. But moreso because of his current situation and what he is looking for from Chicago and our penchant to shell out big money.

Let's just say we do the deal for Briggs. He has a pro-bowl season. You know with Rosenhaus as his agent, he is going to be asking for big dollars. We are already close to cap purgatory now and then we go and give this guy big money that put's us in a bind for 2-3-4 years to come. Whether Briggs would be worth it or not is not my concern. Our penchant for spending money is my biggest worry and what that will do to us in the future and how we are able to do more things like resign, draft, and other stuff. We got quite a few players with big contracts, some with less contracts that will be looking for bigger ones, and all of the other things that go with running a team. Retirement, injury, etc. That all has to be accounted for and you can only have but some many guys on your roster making big money. Hell, right now, we don't really know what we are going to do about Springs and his contract. Then you will have Sean Taylor coming up for renewal soon; then Portis' contract will become another headache at some point and it just goes on and on...

Then, look at the distraction Briggs has caused and the fact that he has Rosenhaus as his agent to add fuel to that fire. I know Chicago is a cheap franchise but they are right on the cusp of winning a ring and he's willing to leave that situation and $7mil. on the table because he want's more money and is afraid that the bears will "franchise" him. I know this is a league of non-guaranteed contracts but Briggs is not that old and he should be worrying about money when the time is right. Now let's really play what if's... What if we don't make the deal and Briggs goes ahead with his plan of sitting out 10 of the 16 games and plays in the last 6. In the third game of the last s6, he blows out his knee like Culpepper did or tears his achilles? The big money he wanted and the $7mil. he should have played the season for are gone. He misses the '08 season and when he does come back, he's damaged goods with a reputation for holding out and a not-so liked agent....

Do we really need this guy and his agent???

First of all, I too have been all about upgrading the d-line, BUT, we don't have all the facts just yet.

Last season, damn near everyone was complaining about the linebackers and the secondary and not so much about the d-line. Our secondary was torched last year. The d-line got much better as the year progressed, even though our sack #'s were low.

To say that the d-line was the sole problem on defense is just not right. Adding one DE will not solve all the problems. This talk about a super pass rushing DE making the secondary better is only half true. Great pass rushers are ALWAYS double-teamed, either with a TE in motion, a RB or a guard / tackle combination. I agree that a good DE can help, but not to the extent that if you upgrade that position only you've solved the entire pass-defensive problems. LB's can get plenty of sacks as well, take Shawn Merriman for example. Also, Williams loves to blitz LB's, like he does with Washington or with LaVar, when he was here and when he played. A good LB core can significantly help the d-line and make them better, hence the name "line backers".

The draft is a crap shoot. You might get a Sean Taylor or a Heath Shuler. Maybe the Skins don't care for the players that might be available at #6. Even if they did stay at #6, there's no guarantee that that player will succeed in the NFL. At least Briggs has already proven his worth. This trade scenario with the Bears would most likely give us TWO starters. Two is better than one. A Pro Bowler and a 1st rd pick is better than just one 1st rd'er with no experience.

Maybe there are some other factors that we simply don't know yet.

Maybe there is some concern about Washington's injury.
Maybe there is some concern about Rocky or Marshall. I've never been that high on Marshall.

... just trying to look at the bright side. Again, I can see both sides of the debate.

Oh, who cares how much he would be payed. If he makes a couple of Pro Bowls, then he's worth it. If he fails miserably, then he gets the foot in the arse, like Arch. No guaranteed contracts in the NFL.

The Hogster wrote:We obviously pay our coaches for nothing...whatever happened to having the coach develop and train their own players and groom them into stars?

Adopting the "build through free agency model" essentially says, I would rather pay more for a proven commodity, than pay less for a cheaper but raw talent.

There are hits and misses in both methods, but if you are going to have such a highly compensated coaching staff, it would seem that you would be more willing to bring in talented youn players and have you 5 million dollar coach, "coach them".

I just don't get it.

Briggs will command a big salary...why trade up for Rocky if you don't think he can play?

We have a flawed approach from the braintrust of Snyder and Cerrato the talking parrot.

Does anyone trust Cerrato to evaluate the players available at 31 and make a good pick??? Anyone?

Great post!!!!

The Hogster wrote:We obviously pay our coaches for nothing...whatever happened to having the coach develop and train their own players and groom them into stars?

Adopting the "build through free agency model" essentially says, I would rather pay more for a proven commodity, than pay less for a cheaper but raw talent.

There are hits and misses in both methods, but if you are going to have such a highly compensated coaching staff, it would seem that you would be more willing to bring in talented youn players and have you 5 million dollar coach, "coach them".

I just don't get it.

Briggs will command a big salary...why trade up for Rocky if you don't think he can play?

We have a flawed approach from the braintrust of Snyder and Cerrato the talking parrot.

Does anyone trust Cerrato to evaluate the players available at 31 and make a good pick??? Anyone?

I don't really trust Vinny but I do trust in Joe Gibbs. Let's face the facts. Gibbs is the one who decides if we get a player or if we don't get a player. If he says no, the team will follow. A lot of people seem to think we have just struck out on every free agent that we have signed. That isn't true (not under Gibbs anyway). Yeah we have hits and misses but how many people miss every year in the draft? Out of the draft, you may have 2 to 3 players make your team and actually contribute. Free agency, if done right, players can make an immediate impact and not have to "adjust" to being in the NFL.

Using FA, you know a guy can play, you just have to let him play towards his strengths. AA was a prime example of someone that the coaches didn't use towards his strengths. Yeah, so what, Briggs doesn't like the bears. We only know what happens in the media but we do not have a clue what happens behind closed doors. I am sure a lot of us on here don't like our boss. Sometimes that is why we switch jobs. Football is no different. It just happens to be in the public eye.

Chris Mortensen just reported on ESPN that there was a "brief" inquiry made by the Skins at the owners meetings. The Bears declined the trade offer and Chris said that this is just Drew making some "noise". Chris said he was not optimistic about the trade happening. Just what I thought all along.

SkinsFreak wrote:Chris Mortensen just reported on ESPN that there was a "brief" inquiry made by the Skins at the owners meetings. The Bears declined the trade offer and Chris said that this is just Drew making some "noise". Chris said he was not optimistic about the trade happening. Just what I thought all along.

You've made my day!!!!!

!

Where did you see that?

SkinsFreak wrote:Chris Mortensen just reported on ESPN that there was a "brief" inquiry made by the Skins at the owners meetings. The Bears declined the trade offer and Chris said that this is just Drew making some "noise". Chris said he was not optimistic about the trade happening. Just what I thought all along.

Well, I just got done watching NFL total Access and thats not what they are saying. They are saying that the Redskins and Bears are indeed talking about this trade, and it even appeared on the bottom of the screen. I would love to see the Redskins make this trade.

Where did you see that?

SkinsFreak wrote:First of all, I too have been all about upgrading the d-line, BUT, we don't have all the facts just yet.

Last season, damn near everyone was complaining about the linebackers and the secondary and not so much about the d-line. Our secondary was torched last year. The d-line got much better as the year progressed, even though our sack #'s were low.

To say that the d-line was the sole problem on defense is just not right. Adding one DE will not solve all the problems. This talk about a super pass rushing DE making the secondary better is only half true. Great pass rushers are ALWAYS double-teamed, either with a TE in motion, a RB or a guard / tackle combination. I agree that a good DE can help, but not to the extent that if you upgrade that position only you've solved the entire pass-defensive problems. LB's can get plenty of sacks as well, take Shawn Merriman for example. Also, Williams loves to blitz LB's, like he does with Washington or with LaVar, when he was here and when he played. A good LB core can significantly help the d-line and make them better, hence the name "line backers".

The draft is a crap shoot. You might get a Sean Taylor or a Heath Shuler. Maybe the Skins don't care for the players that might be available at #6. Even if they did stay at #6, there's no guarantee that that player will succeed in the NFL. At least Briggs has already proven his worth. This trade scenario with the Bears would most likely give us TWO starters. Two is better than one. A Pro Bowler and a 1st rd pick is better than just one 1st rd'er with no experience.

Maybe there are some other factors that we simply don't know yet.

I hear you - in the end, this season, we need a front 7 that puts pressure on the QB like we have not seen here for some time now - this off season is about improving our defense - we were not good at all last year!

I think we all will agree that our secondary group is not set yet BUT I think we really need to improve up front first. Now if that happens with this reported trade then that will be great and as you point out he is young - but, the front 4 also need to be a lot better than the last few years and IMO 1 great DT OR 1 great DE is not going to be enough.

jeremyroyce wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:Chris Mortensen just reported on ESPN that there was a "brief" inquiry made by the Skins at the owners meetings. The Bears declined the trade offer and Chris said that this is just Drew making some "noise". Chris said he was not optimistic about the trade happening. Just what I thought all along.

Well, I just got done watching NFL total Access and thats not what they are saying. They are saying that the Redskins and Bears are indeed talking about this trade, and it even appeared on the bottom of the screen. I would love to see the Redskins make this trade.

Ya, I just heard the same thing.

I'm still of the opinion that this trade will not happen