Red Zone troubles

[Prowl33]

I know I can't be the only one ripping their hair out over this. It really seems like we are so close to arriving, but our red zone issues is to me the #1 thing holding us back. Yes we shouldn't of missed that FG in today's Cincinnati game, but we also flopped on a 4th and 1 in the red zone, so it's not 100% on our kicker. The Detroit game exactly the same thing, the Dallas game too, and the games we have won should of been won by larger margins.

So what is the answer? Is it play calling? Kirk? Receivers? Lack of a goal line run game? Execution all around?

Feels like they are sooo close...

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

We are improving IMHO.. Kelley finally busted one in which is encouraging. We need to use our TE AND our big receivers- maybe Maurice Hunt can play a roll?? When we get in the redzone. In my estimation, the play calling, AND Kirk have been bad. He will lock on to one read and never let go, when he should be looking defenders off (at the very least) and pump faking defenders to get his guy open. Problem is, everything down there is sped up to fast forward speed, and Kirk hasn't pushed the button yet.

As we improve in this department, as with like we have on third downs, l suspect we win the close ones and out the kids to bed earlier in the ones we dominate.


It's such a :badword: watching this team OWN the first half and only be up by a score or worse!! When we are getting it done on both sides, we need to capitalize and run a Fn muck on the scoreboard- throne area we've been letting teams hang around on us...

[Burgundy&Wha?]

Improve the running game and defenses will have to respect that threat. Without having to worry about that, defenses can drop 6-7 players into coverage and it's tough to find openings. Couple that with most of our receivers being small to average height and there you go. First things first: improve the run game.

[riggofan]

I'm usually a firm believer in putting most of the blame on players. You line up your best 11, and those guys need to man up and beat their opponents.

I'm starting to feel like play calling is a big issue in the red zone though. That 4th and 1 play was a great example. I loved the decision to go for it, but that play call? WTF??? 4th and 1 and they've got Kelly lined up 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage for a run. Its easy to second guess calls, but I just feel like we've seen a lot of those examples this season.

I think we have a pretty exceptional offense. We're dominating possession nearly every week. Whatever your opinion of Cousins is, he's been good enough to move the ball consistently. The o-line is solid. Maybe the running game isn't what we'd like, but there are still a ridiculous number of weapons on offense. Forget about Reed, DJax and Garcon - Crowder, Thompson and Vernon Davis have all been playing their *** off.

It seems inexcusable to dominate games like we did in the first half v. Cincinatti and have it be 10-7 at halftime.

[oj]

The O line has to learn how to make a hole, they either can't do it or don't know how. I suspect the latter.
I agree, Kurt locks onto his #1 guy and that makes it more difficult for that receiver esp in the end zone.
Dunno about the play calling, I don't agree with what I see but I'm no student of the game. I do know about bad judgement and that has cost us too many games.

[Prowl33]

Improve the running game and defenses will have to respect that threat. Without having to worry about that, defenses can drop 6-7 players into coverage and it's tough to find openings. Couple that with most of our receivers being small to average height and there you go. First things first: improve the run game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to this game didn't we have like the 6th ranked running offense in the keague?

[SkinsJock]

I'm usually a firm believer in putting most of the blame on players. You line up your best 11, and those guys need to man up and beat their opponents.

I'm starting to feel like play calling is a big issue in the red zone though. That 4th and 1 play was a great example. I loved the decision to go for it, but that play call? WTF??? 4th and 1 and they've got Kelly lined up 7 yards behind the line of scrimmage for a run. Its easy to second guess calls, but I just feel like we've seen a lot of those examples this season.

I think we have a pretty exceptional offense. We're dominating possession nearly every week. Whatever your opinion of Cousins is, he's been good enough to move the ball consistently. The o-line is solid. Maybe the running game isn't what we'd like, but there are still a ridiculous number of weapons on offense. Forget about Reed, DJax and Garcon - Crowder, Thompson and Vernon Davis have all been playing their *** off.

It seems inexcusable to dominate games like we did in the first half v. Cincinatti and have it be 10-7 at halftime.

+1 - we should have been up by a lot more at the half based on the overall play

I do NOT think that the Red Zone issues are Kirk Cousins' fault at all - Cousins has not had a great first half but he has proven to be a lot better QB than I thought - his stats are very impressive and he's actually gotten a lot better after a shaky first few games

the coaches are not getting the most out of the offense in the Red Zone, they tend to suddenly become tentative - that 4th and 1 call was BS - Cousins & the whole offense have shown that they are good enough - we need to be just as aggressive in the Red Zone

I thought that this team was going to hold anyone and everyone accountable for what they do - the coaching needs to look at themselves and realize they are letting the players down

IMO both Joe Barry and Kirk Cousins (and others) have really improved after a shaky first few games

[riggofan]

the coaches are not getting the most out of the offense in the Red Zone, they tend to suddenly become tentative - that 4th and 1 call was BS - Cousins & the whole offense have shown that they are good enough - we need to be just as aggressive in the Red Zone

Yeah I'm with you 100% on that, man. Tentative is a good word. When they decided to go for it on 4th and 1 there, would like to have just seen them line up, quick snap it and sneak it across or whatever. Do it with confidence.

It always looks to me like they get too cute in the red zone or something. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, but its bizarre to me how well they play over 80 yards of the field then look like a different team in the final 20.

[Prowl33]

Chris cooley said it best. Being a fan is like hooking up with a beautiful girl, a 10/10, and not getting off at the end of it.

[DarthMonk]

Improve the running game and defenses will have to respect that threat. Without having to worry about that, defenses can drop 6-7 players into coverage and it's tough to find openings. Couple that with most of our receivers being small to average height and there you go. First things first: improve the run game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to this game didn't we have like the 6th ranked running offense in the keague?

Run Offense = 13th @ 113.7 ypg before game.

[Prowl33]

Improve the running game and defenses will have to respect that threat. Without having to worry about that, defenses can drop 6-7 players into coverage and it's tough to find openings. Couple that with most of our receivers being small to average height and there you go. First things first: improve the run game.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but prior to this game didn't we have like the 6th ranked running offense in the keague?

Run Offense = 13th @ 113.7 ypg before game.

Still not bad, if you remove excess the first 3 games where we had like 50 yards a game we are probably too 5 in that time period. Either way, if everything goes else remained the same, but we improved our red zone efficiency, we automatically improve to a top 10 team in the nfl

[mastdark81]

You simply throw it into the endzone more. I can't remember us throwing it into the endzone all game (could be wrong).

Our run game isn't very punishing so I think that play a part. Would like to see more read option there too and most importantly pass it to Jordan Reed.

[PAPDOG67]

the coaches are not getting the most out of the offense in the Red Zone, they tend to suddenly become tentative - that 4th and 1 call was BS - Cousins & the whole offense have shown that they are good enough - we need to be just as aggressive in the Red Zone

Yeah I'm with you 100% on that, man. Tentative is a good word. When they decided to go for it on 4th and 1 there, would like to have just seen them line up, quick snap it and sneak it across or whatever. Do it with confidence.

It always looks to me like they get too cute in the red zone or something. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, but its bizarre to me how well they play over 80 yards of the field then look like a different team in the final 20.

Well for one thing, its a helluva a lot easier for the defense to defend in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top anymore.

[riggofan]

It always looks to me like they get too cute in the red zone or something. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, but its bizarre to me how well they play over 80 yards of the field then look like a different team in the final 20.

Well for one thing, its a helluva a lot easier for the defense to defend in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top anymore.

As dumb as I am sometimes, I do in fact understand that much!

[Prowl33]

It always looks to me like they get too cute in the red zone or something. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, but its bizarre to me how well they play over 80 yards of the field then look like a different team in the final 20.

Well for one thing, its a helluva a lot easier for the defense to defend in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top anymore.

As dumb as I am sometimes, I do in fact understand that much!

That's where we need Doctson for the fade, crowder for the quick toss, or reed for the possession battle. If we work one of those 3 every time (for now reed could be the fade guy too) then the threat of a tough run from Kelly, we can get this thing fixed.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I'm disgusted watching this team in the red zone. Basically, the opposing team has to screw up for us to score. Excuses are for losers. The red zone playcalling is hot garbage. I'm tired of hearing about how the team needs Doctson. We have Reed, Davis, Jackson, Garcon, Crowder, and if they really need to throw that god forsaken fade route they can use 6'2" Quinton Dunbar as a receiver since he is one. McVay's offense is unstoppable between the 20's. It's the worst I've ever seen inside the 20. Predictable, easy to defend, hard to execute. We leave points on the board every week.

[SkinsJock]

.. its a helluva a lot easier for the defense in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top

sorry, that's BS - when you have the number of good playmakers we have on offense, it comes down to play calling

we all have seen how unimaginative the play calling has been in the Red Zone - this needs to get better

[PAPDOG67]

.. its a helluva a lot easier for the defense in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top

sorry, that's BS - when you have the number of good playmakers we have on offense, it comes down to play calling

we all have seen how unimaginative the play calling has been in the Red Zone - this needs to get better

Actually, no, its quite simple. There's less area of the field to defend, making it easier on the defense. That being said, I agree that our play calling lacks some imagination in the red zone.

[SkinsJock]

certainly there's less area to defend but that means little when you cannot match up with our numerous weapons

we make it easier for the defense because we are so predictable when we get in the Red Zone and we try plays that have little chance of success - we need to have more faith in our playmakers and attack the defense rather than trying to 'finesse' them

the play calling on offense has been statistically good but if it were better it would have resulted in more points


nothing bothers me more than the fixation on having great stats rather than an emphasis on the importance of scoring more points

great stats are maybe good for fantasy football, but that's what it is, an effing fantasy ...
real football is played on the field and the better team is not the one with the better stats, it's the one with the more points

right now we are a good fantasy team - we need to become a good football team




btw - I really hate fantasy football

[riggofan]

.. its a helluva a lot easier for the defense in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top

sorry, that's BS - when you have the number of good playmakers we have on offense, it comes down to play calling

Its not BS, its math.

When the Redskins are at their own 20 yard line, the opposing defense has to defend 4770 square yards of space. When then Redskins are in the red zone, the opposing defense has to defend 1590 square yards of space.

The number of playmakers we have on offense doesn't change that. Its mathematically easier for 11 guys to defend less space than more space.

All that said, I still think the red zone play calling has been suspect at best.

[riggofan]

I'm disgusted watching this team in the red zone. Basically, the opposing team has to screw up for us to score. Excuses are for losers. The red zone playcalling is hot garbage. I'm tired of hearing about how the team needs Doctson. We have Reed, Davis, Jackson, Garcon, Crowder, and if they really need to throw that god forsaken fade route they can use 6'2" Quinton Dunbar as a receiver since he is one. McVay's offense is unstoppable between the 20's. It's the worst I've ever seen inside the 20. Predictable, easy to defend, hard to execute. We leave points on the board every week.

I agree with the predictable part, BGF. I swear sometimes it feels like they're running off a script, checking off checkboxes. I listen to games on the radio a lot of the time, and Sonny nearly always calls the red zone play before they run it.

[SkinsJock]

.. its a helluva a lot easier for the defense in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top

sorry, that's BS - when you have the number of good playmakers we have on offense, it comes down to play calling

Its not BS, its math.

When the Redskins are at their own 20 yard line, the opposing defense has to defend 4770 square yards of space. When then Redskins are in the red zone, the opposing defense has to defend 1590 square yards of space.

The number of playmakers we have on offense doesn't change that. Its mathematically easier for 11 guys to defend less space than more space.

All that said, I still think the red zone play calling has been suspect at best.

I agree it's math - we have more playmakers than they have defenders - it doesn't matter about how much field they are defending

PLUS

our playmakers know where they're going and the defenders do not ... oh wait, I take that back

[DarthMonk]

.. its a helluva a lot easier for the defense in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top

sorry, that's BS ......

Every offensive and defensive coordinator on the planet disagrees with this reply of yours.

[SkinsJock]

^^ - so what - we have an offense that can move the ball down the field with no issue but we cannot manage to score TDs because it's a lot easier to defend inside the Red Zone - that's BS - the real reason is the play calling in the Red Zone changes NOT because the defenders are defending a smaller part of the field

The only offense that is ranked in the top 10 in all categories except the Red Zone is the Redskins - that means there's a problem and it's NOT because the defenders are defending a smaller field

and just how do you know that all coordinators disagree with that

[Countertrey]

Well for one thing, its a helluva a lot easier for the defense to defend in the redzone since they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top anymore.

As dumb as I am sometimes, I do in fact understand that much!

That's where we need Doctson for the fade, crowder for the quick toss, or reed for the possession battle. If we work one of those 3 every time (for now reed could be the fade guy too) then the threat of a tough run from Kelly, we can get this thing fixed.

Seriously? How many times have they called a fade this year? 6? 7? at least 3 to Doctson... Zero completions. It's not the receivers... that's on Cousins. Seems he just can't time this down.