Locker Room Dynamics

[DarthMonk]

I'm hearing a lot about Griff being unhappy with coaching, not starting, blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum. I'm not saying this is happening but, if Shanny is let go to appease Griffin, the locker room is history.

It is imperative that the coach has authority. There seems to be a real danger that Snyder's dinner dates have or will essentially emasculate Shanny. That is a situation no new coach would want either.

I am very concerned with the locker room dynamics.

I think Shanny really screwed up putting Griff back out against Seattle and by starting him game 1 this year but I totally support the recent benching of Griff. I don't necessarily buy his public reasons but, it needed to happen. It may ultimately save the locker room.

[Countertrey]

Yup.

[SkinsJock]

I'm sorry to hear that - if it's true, the situation is dire ...

There's no doubt that the HC has to have full authority and for ALL the players to buy into that ... especially RGIII

it's important for RGIII's development as a QB that he fully trusts the OC and the HC but it's even more important that the HC be the ultimate authority

I really hope that Snyder is not interfering or meddling because no head coach is going to get very far without having full authority over the roster

[Kilmer72]

Listening to 980 radio they seem to think like I do. Everyone is to blame but Mike was supposed to be the responsible adult. No way this happens under a coach with people skills. I mentioned this already in another thread about Gibbs.

[StorminMormon86]

God I hope all of this noise isn't true, but the more stuff that continues to come out makes me think there is some truth in some of this.

[riggofan]

I'm hearing a lot about Griff being unhappy with coaching, not starting, blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum. I'm not saying this is happening but, if Shanny is let go to appease Griffin, the locker room is history.

For one thing, I don't see how anybody can blame RGIII for Shanahan getting fired. The guy is about to finish with a 3-13 record and a huge debacle of a season. If he gets fired, nobody in their right mind is going to be saying, "Ah it was just to appease RGIII". Snyder has no shortage of legitimate reasons for letting Shanahan go if he wants to.

For another, how much of the current locker room is really going to be back next year anyway? Much of this locker room is history next year no matter who is coaching.

[riggofan]

Listening to 980 radio they seem to think like I do. Everyone is to blame but Mike was supposed to be the responsible adult. No way this happens under a coach with people skills. I mentioned this already in another thread about Gibbs.

Yeah I was listening to that too, man. It was a great point. Mike has failed numerous times when he should have "been the grown up". Obviously the Seattle playoff game. And starting RGIII in week one was probably another time he could have made the more difficult choice.

[StorminMormon86]

For one thing, I don't see how anybody can blame RGIII for Shanahan getting fired. The guy is about to finish with a 3-13 record and a huge debacle of a season. If he gets fired, nobody in their right mind is going to be saying, "Ah it was just to appease RGIII". Snyder has no shortage of legitimate reasons for letting Shanahan go if he wants to.

For another, how much of the current locker room is really going to be back next year anyway? Much of this locker room is history next year no matter who is coaching.

Good points. I doubt anyone would blame Griffin if (and when) Shanahan gets canned. But we could still finish 4-12.

[SkinsJock]

the fact is that if Snyder is not meddling or interfering in any way then what is Mike 'reportedly' pissed off about ..
if Snyder is meddling or interfering in any way then Mike has a really good reason to be pissed off

that means that Snyder is the one that has created the mess here NOT Mike

If that's the case then we have little to no chance at seeing any improvement here

part of me refuses to believe that Dan Snyder could be that stupid ... but then

It does not matter how many players that are here now will not be here next season - If the HC does not have complete authority then the players will have no respect for him

Dan Snyder agreed to let Mike have complete authority - if he has not lived up to that then he is more responsible for the 3 win season than Mike

[SkinsJock]

I'm hearing a lot about Griff being unhappy with coaching, not starting, blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum. I'm not saying this is happening but, if Shanny is let go to appease Griffin, the locker room is history.

For one thing, I don't see how anybody can blame RGIII for Shanahan getting fired. The guy is about to finish with a 3-13 record and a huge debacle of a season. If he gets fired, nobody in their right mind is going to be saying, "Ah it was just to appease RGIII". Snyder has no shortage of legitimate reasons for letting Shanahan go if he wants to.

For another, how much of the current locker room is really going to be back next year anyway? Much of this locker room is history next year no matter who is coaching.

No HC can be successful if the owner does not give him absolute authority over the players

I agree this is not RGIII or any of the players' fault - IF Dan Snyder is interfering with the job that Mike is doing or meddling in any way that undermines what Mike does, then the blame or fault for the way the team is responding and performing is solely on Dan Snyder ... not Mike Shanahan

UNFORTUNATELY that gets rid of Mike which is not a bad thing HOWEVER - no HC is going to get inspired play from a roster that knows Dan Snyder is in charge

I have noticed this season that the players play hard but but not with the incredible desire to be better that you need to win - having an owner like Snyder will do that

I thought that Snyder had learned his lesson - obviously that is not the case if these reports are true

[Kilmer72]

the fact is that if Snyder is not meddling or interfering in any way then what is Mike 'reportedly' pissed off about ..
if Snyder is meddling or interfering in any way then Mike has a really good reason to be pissed off

that means that Snyder is the one that has created the mess here NOT Mike

If that's the case then we have little to no chance at seeing any improvement here

part of me refuses to believe that Dan Snyder could be that stupid ... but then

It does not matter how many players that are here now will not be here next season - If the HC does not have complete authority then the players will have no respect for him

Dan Snyder agreed to let Mike have complete authority - if he has not lived up to that then he is more responsible for the 3 win season than Mike

I think it was a case (and this is my opinion) that Robert got a little too big for his britches. Again this falls on Mike. I am sure Dan did piss Snyder off but if you believe anything Mike says he says he gets along great with Dan. They golf together. yada yada. All that aside Mike is still responsible for 3 wins. I don't care if Dan did have dinner with Robert. Maybe the locker room should get upset that Mike golfs with Dan too?

[DarthMonk]

I'm hearing a lot about Griff being unhappy with coaching, not starting, blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum. I'm not saying this is happening but, if Shanny is let go to appease Griffin, the locker room is history.

For one thing, I don't see how anybody can blame RGIII for Shanahan getting fired. The guy is about to finish with a 3-13 record and a huge debacle of a season. If he gets fired, nobody in their right mind is going to be saying, "Ah it was just to appease RGIII". Snyder has no shortage of legitimate reasons for letting Shanahan go if he wants to.

For another, how much of the current locker room is really going to be back next year anyway? Much of this locker room is history next year no matter who is coaching.

I wouldn't be blaming Griff in such a scenario. I do think it is quite possible that Snyder is about to choose one over the other and if his choice is Griff, no coach would want to step into a place where the QB's concerns outweigh the coaches. How many of the current players remain in the locker outside Griff is irrelevant.

As soon as there was a whiff of this kind of trouble, if, indeed, there was, Shanny should have done something. If it comes down to assigning blame, I'd start with Snyder and work my way down to Griff through Shanny.

[welch]

I don't trust anything I read about the Redskins, except what we say in Hogwash...and none of us claims to know anything happening inside the team.

Maybe we will know something truhful in a year or so, but not now. Offhand, I:

- hope M Shanahan stays

- hope K Shanahan moves on

- expect Haslett to be fired and I hope the next DC brings back the 4 - 3

- hope the front office finds about six good players with the extra cap money

- expect that the Rams will enjoy the Redskins' pick

- wonder if the Skins would have been better off keeping the picks and drafting Tannehill, but that's irrelevant now. The only thing that matters is what the team will do.

[SkinsJock]

Mike is ONLY able to manage and coach the team that he's in charge of - If Dan has made it clear to both Robert and Mike that the QB carries more weight than the HC then the owner is absolutely putting the coach in a position where despite what the players claim he cannot get them to lay it all out there

If all Dan did was just socialize is one thing but to not fully support everything and anything your HC does is to put the team at a risk of not playing as well

IF THAT"S THE CASE - DAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAILURE NOT MIKE - you cannot get players to lay it on the line if they think you're not the ultimate authority

totally agree with most of what welch posted

next Monday the facts will be revealed and I'm afraid that Dan may be screwing us all again

Mike is a better coach than this and it looks very much like he's been handicapped by our stupid owner

[SkinsJock]

Dan having dinner or whatever is not a problem - the ONLY issue is did Dan (despite the golf and everything) make it seem to Mike AND the players that he (Dan) was totally in agreement with everything and anything that Mike was doing - if not then the failure of the team this year is all on the owner for not letting Mike be FULLY in charge

[Kilmer72]

Mike is ONLY able to manage and coach the team that he's in charge of - If Dan has made it clear to both Robert and Mike that the QB carries more weight than the HC then the owner is absolutely putting the coach in a position where despite what the players claim he cannot get them to lay it all out there

If all Dan did was just socialize is one thing but to not fully support everything and anything your HC does is to put the team at a risk of not playing as well

IF THAT"S THE CASE - DAN IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAILURE NOT MIKE - you cannot get players to lay it on the line if they think you're not the ultimate authority

totally agree with most of what welch posted

next Monday the facts will be revealed and I'm afraid that Dan may be screwing us all again

Mike is a better coach than this and it looks very much like he's been handicapped by our stupid owner

This is the argument my oldest bro makes as well. I say back who has final say? If Mike does then who is at fault? There is only credence of argument if Dan has final say and Mike is a patsy. Do you understand?

[SkinsJock]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Mike is responsible if he has the final authority but it would seem that Dan took that away

we will soon know who was the a**hole here

[Kilmer72]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Contracts my friend contracts. They are binding even if Dan is reneging. It is really more simple than that. The law says.... What is happening is another matter maybe, but that doesn't take away from 7 million dollars!!!! If you think Dan is an idiot when it comes to money then you don't understand a billionaire.

[Kilmer72]

Well, I don't want to argue anymore. If you guys feel that the law is wrong and not binding then i give up. I am going by what has been said and so far even Mike hasn't said Dan is throwing a wrench in the spokes so, I can't convince you anymore. All Mike has said is Dan had dinner and had body guards escort Robert. I don't get the hate for the last 4 years.

[SkinsJock]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Contracts my friend contracts. They are binding even if Dan is reneging. It is really more simple than that. The law says.... What is happening is another matter maybe, but that doesn't take away from 7 million dollars!!!! If you think Dan is an idiot when it comes to money then you don't understand a billionaire.

Dan brought in Mike and gave him full authority to manage the team - not sure what your talking about here - it seems that Dan has undermined that recently - that is wrong

not sure what you're referring to about the security guards or anything to do with being with the players socially - that has nothing to do with this

Does Mike have full authority and does Dan fully support Mike in everything that he does - if not then Mike is not responsible for the failure of the team

Mike cannot expect every player to do everything and anything he wants without Dan's FULL support

[Kilmer72]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Contracts my friend contracts. They are binding even if Dan is reneging. It is really more simple than that. The law says.... What is happening is another matter maybe, but that doesn't take away from 7 million dollars!!!! If you think Dan is an idiot when it comes to money then you don't understand a billionaire.

Dan brought in Mike and gave him full authority to manage the team - not sure what your talking about here - it seems that Dan has undermined that recently - that is wrong

not sure what you're referring to about the security guards or anything to do with being with the players socially - that has nothing to do with this

Does Mike have full authority and does Dan fully support Mike in everything that he does - if not then Mike is not responsible for the failure of the team

Mike cannot expect every player to do everything and anything he wants without Dan's FULL support

I really don't want to debate this any longer so i concede. There is no point in making sense any longer. You win I lose it is simple. Congrats!!!

[Neo]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Contracts my friend contracts. They are binding even if Dan is reneging. It is really more simple than that. The law says.... What is happening is another matter maybe, but that doesn't take away from 7 million dollars!!!! If you think Dan is an idiot when it comes to money then you don't understand a billionaire.

Another thing, with all that Shanahan was saying about telling DS that he would have to run the team his way if DS wanted him to coach, wouldn't that have been included in the language of the contract? I don't recall MS specifically saying that language was in the contract.

I'm a small business owner, and I'll tell you one thing, there's no such thing as a "verbal agreement"; if its not in writing, its nothing. I would find it really hard to believe that MS wouldn't demand that be put into the language of the contract. Even I wouldn't dare agree to something without it being in writing.

That's what makes me a little suspicious of these reports...it just seems that MS should already be completely protected under the contract; I don't see him making a mistake that huge.

[Kilmer72]

Neo he can't make up his mind. He will tell you that Dan is an evil sob in one breath and say Mike has made a huge error in another. You are wasting your time.

If you are smart you will give up. He is a good guy don't get me wrong but he is sitting on the fence and a bit of an @ss kisser.

[Kilmer72]

if Dan gives final authority to Mike then but does not back him up then the fault lies with Dan

Contracts my friend contracts. They are binding even if Dan is reneging. It is really more simple than that. The law says.... What is happening is another matter maybe, but that doesn't take away from 7 million dollars!!!! If you think Dan is an idiot when it comes to money then you don't understand a billionaire.

Another thing, with all that Shanahan was saying about telling DS that he would have to run the team his way if DS wanted him to coach, wouldn't that have been included in the language of the contract? I don't recall MS specifically saying that language was in the contract.

I'm a small business owner, and I'll tell you one thing, there's no such thing as a "verbal agreement"; if its not in writing, its nothing. I would find it really hard to believe that MS wouldn't demand that be put into the language of the contract. Even I wouldn't dare agree to something without it being in writing.

That's what makes me a little suspicious of these reports...it just seems that MS should already be completely protected under the contract; I don't see him making a mistake that huge.

One thing I think I should assume is Mike is not a dummy. Of course it would be in a contract. Snyders history would make that a prerogative. If you want total control then there has to be a contract. Yes a verbal agreement can be binding if you have witnesses. We have a lawyer on here but he hasn't been on for a while but he could tell you more than me.

[SkinsJock]

I think it's fairly clear that Dan and Mike know what they agreed to and that it's a written contract that includes language to the effect that Mike would have total control over everything concerning players and coaches ... Dan has every right to be 'in contact' with the players as long as he makes it clear that Mike has final authority

if Dan interfered with Mike's authority it's not a good thing for this franchise going forward