Skins/Bills Post Game Thread.... How'd We Look?

[langleyparkjoe]

Morgan will be fine, no worries atall.

Any thoughts on Hank's catch?

I honestly was waiting for someone to mention that to me!!! You baaaastid!!! lmao!!!

It was a "you better not drop it" kinda catch though, but hey at least he caught it and that's the first step in making me a believer.

[Deadskins]

The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

What is that program called in which you order the Redskin games and can isolate on specific players?

I think you're referring to All 22, the new coaches' film subscription package from the NFL. I don't know about focusing on a particular player, though.

[Red_One43]

The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

What is that program called in which you order the Redskin games and can isolate on specific players?

I think you're referring to All 22, the new coaches film subscription package from the NFL. I don't know about focusing on a particular player, though.

Yep, that's what I was referring to. Thanks.

[Deadskins]

I just realized Helu took advantage of the RGIII precedent to add "JR." to his uniform name plate. I guess we'll be getting a lot of that from now on.

[1niksder]

The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

What is that program called in which you order the Redskin games and can isolate on specific players?

I think you're referring to All 22, the new coaches' film subscription package from the NFL. I don't know about focusing on a particular player, though.

That's why it's called 22... always 22 on the field and you can pick which one to track.

This is a few unproductive product = you get it, and your productivity will definitely go down. I watched a game with a friend.... 7 hours later his wife kicked us both out, and I never got to go over most of the 4th quarter

[Red_One43]

The game is about to be replayed on NFL Network.

What is that program called in which you order the Redskin games and can isolate on specific players?

I think you're referring to All 22, the new coaches' film subscription package from the NFL. I don't know about focusing on a particular player, though.

That's why it's called 22... always 22 on the field and you can pick which one to track.

This is a few unproductive product = you get it, and your productivity will definitely go down. I watched a game with a friend.... 7 hours later his wife kicked us both out, and I never got to go over most of the 4th quarter

Thanks and Thanks for the "warning." It is bad enough that I am on the computer too much already.

[skinpride1]

Went back and reviewed liked when RG3 got the Bills on the hard count but man did he drop back with some amazing speed that will make any average o-line look good then throws a strike. His speed will win us some games this year.

Here is an article talking about Rg3 quickness getting the ball out. IM telling you it will make our O-line look better just like Manning did when he was with the colts, Love it!!!

http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins- ... CVIsKN3CwV

[1niksder]

Went back and reviewed liked when RG3 got the Bills on the hard count but man did he drop back with some amazing speed that will make any average o-line look good then throws a strike. His speed will win us some games this year.

Here is an article talking about Rg3 quickness getting the ball out. IM telling you it will make our O-line look better just like Manning did when he was with the colts, Love it!!!

http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins- ... CVIsKN3CwV

+1

[Red_One43]

Just watched the Garcon sideline play from the first series in HD slo-mo, and it was definitely a catch.

Here's the link to the evidence:


Garcon makes the sideline catch. Referee's blow the call and here's the proof

[SkinsFreak]

SkinsFreak have you been talking to John Keim?

My problem with Brandon Banks wasn’t the slip. Sometimes that happens. But it’s the plays that weren’t made because of his size; that’s a worry that won’t change. On one play a defensive back jarred the ball loose after Banks caught it on a hitch route. Later on a deep ball Banks jumped but could not do much against the defensive back. It was a jump-ball situation that he lost. Banks did get open deep but the pass was underthrown by Kirk Cousins (a timing issue, not an arm one). Oh, and Banks had one good run block but there was another time in which he was overpowered near the line. That stuff matters. You can love a guy all you want, but sometimes love isn’t enough. Man, I now sound like a relationship therapist. It didn’t help Banks that Aldrick Robinson had a nice showing in the second half. Granted it was later in the second half, but he flashed nonetheless. Like Banks he was underthrown on a go-route in which he was open. It’s good to see Robinson’s speed, something we didn’t see last year – in practice or games.

I respect Keim's articles, but disagree with him on this one. Keim is the same guy who wrote the article that the coaches loves Banks. Keim wants to make it into a love fest issue - The coaches don't love Banks because he is an novelty - they see that putting the ball in his hands is trouble for the other teams. Either our coaches are dumb and cannot see that Banks cannot out jump most DBs or they are smart and realize that his upside just might outweigh his height and size limitations. I think that it is the latter.

Anyways, SkinsFeak - I don't mind posting something that supports your view. Be sure to tell Keim to pay you royalties when he takes your stuff off our boards.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/redskins- ... le/2504544

John Keim also said...

Banks slips: Receiver Brandon Banks was targeted nine times and only caught two passes. While his quickness and speed are assets, his size is not. Physical defensive backs will run through him as the ball arrives, making it tough for Banks to hold onto the catch as happened Thursday. He slipped on one route and appeared to stop short on another. If he needs to show he can help at receiver, then Banks has a lot to prove over the next three games.

Red, is Brandon Banks your little brother or something? Geez... I happen to mention Banks' size as a potential concern based off what I saw last night and you've jumped to his defense like he's your kid brother and I'm the neighborhood bully who is picking on the little guy because of his size.

As I've said several times, I really like Banks. Again, he's been one of the few bright spots on this team for the past few years. Perhaps that's why Banks seems to be getting the extra benefit of the doubt from several posters around here as the excuses for Banks' poor performance seem to grow and grow. While he shines brightly as a punt returner, his skills as a WR at the pro level are less than desirable. That's just my opinion, sorry.

His size, or lack of size, has to be a major concern on many levels. It isn't only about not being able to out-jump defenders or out-muscle strong safeties for contested footballs. It's also about durability as well. We can't expect that every pass is going to hit him in the numbers or that he shouldn't ever have to fight or compete with a DB to catch a pass. Physical defensive backs will run threw or over him to intercept passes.

I just happened to mention his size as a concern because I saw him struggle a few times last night when trying to catch passes. You were the one who mentioned his poor route running, which I agree is also a concern. I watched the game again today on the NFL Network and saw the same thing and had the same concerns.

I agree with you on this CKR, While I agree with SkinsFreak that Niles Paul's drops could have a lot to do with nerves, the same could be said of Banks. Both players are being asked to do something new to them.

I'm confused by your comment here. Both Paul and Banks are being asked to do something new?

Niles Paul is transitioning from WR to TE this year. That is something new for Paul. Brandon Banks has been a WR his entire college and pro career. Playing WR is not something new for Banks. Banks played WR at Kansas State and has been working at WR ever since he joined the Redskins. He caught a couple of passes during the regular season in 2010 and caught another in 2011. That means that in addition to his kick return responsibilities, he's been practicing and playing WR ever since his college days and ever since he's been in Washington. That's why, for some, his poor route running - that you yourself eluded to - is a concern, in addition to his small stature.

[aswas71788]

I always liked the way Jerry Rice "celebrated". He walked over to the nearest official, handed him the ball, and went back to his bench. Professional. No need for antics, you just did your job. The flip itself didn't bother me much, but the landing sucked. PG landed on his tailbone, which really could have caused an injury. What does bother me is when a defender makes a tackle after a 14 yard run and then does the "hulk flex" routine. Save that crap for 14 yard losses. That said, we are talking about (for the most part) very young men playing a high testosterone game, so i guess a bit of immaturity is only natural.

Ask Gus Frerotte about a celebration and the consequences. Remember him head butting the wall and lost his position.

[Red_One43]

Qoutes are from SkinsFreak:

Red, is Brandon Banks your little brother or something? Geez... I happen to mention Banks' size as a potential concern based off what I saw last night and you've jumped to his defense like he's your kid brother and I'm the neighborhood bully who is picking on the little guy because of his size

.

You happened to feel free to speak your piece on a player and then when somebody counters, you get on the defensive? You don't have respond, but you do, why? It is called a discussion board. Do you want to discuss? If not, ignore.

Now, get it right. I am not defending Banks' performance - look at my posts again - his performance was poor, but there were bright spots.

I am challenging you on your height issues with Banks.

As I've said several times, I really like Banks. Again, he's been one of the few bright spots on this team for the past few years. Perhaps that's why Banks seems to be getting the extra benefit of the doubt from several posters around here as the excuses for Banks' poor performance seem to grow and grow. While he shines brightly as a punt returner, his skills as a WR at the pro level are less than desirable. That's just my opinion, sorry.

I don't care if you like Banks or not. Why are you apologizing? Back up what you say, It is a discussion board. Discuss or ignore.

You gave Paul the benefit of the doubt with nerves being a likely cause and I agreed with you and I agreed with CKR that the same can be said about Banks. Again, read my posts and they clearly say that Banks had a poor night because of Banks.

Do you realize that the Skins coaches and the head coach don't seem to be bothered by his height? Why do you think they have him out there for a circus? Read the article below if that is what you think? Again, I am providing evidence to challenge you.

If there was one thing evident at the press conferences today with the assistant coaches, it was this: Lots of people still love returner/receiver Brandon Banks

His size, or lack of size, has to be a major concern on many levels. It isn't only about not being able to out-jump defenders or out-muscle strong safeties for contested footballs. It's also about durability as well. We can't expect that every pass is going to hit him in the numbers or that he shouldn't ever have to fight or compete with a DB to catch a pass. Physical defensive backs will run threw or over him to intercept passes.

Height has to be a concern on many levels? Yeah, tell that to Shanny! No, Shanny wants to know if the guy can play ball and help us win - he doesn't care what the guy's height is when it comes to making the team - you care! That's fine, but on these boards, I am going to challenge you and I will continue to do so. Just like you, and everyone else, are free to challenge me on what I write.

Did you see any durability issues last night? Then why bring it up when discussing the post game?

I just happened to mention his size as a concern because I saw him struggle a few times last night when trying to catch passes. You were the one who mentioned his poor route running, which I agree is also a concern. I watched the game again today on the NFL Network and saw the same thing and had the same concerns.

You just happened....? Well, I just happened to disagree with you and mention it on the the game thread. Once again, why is it OK to express your opinion and me to not express mine and make me out to be Brandons brother?

Of course, you have the same concerns, because Banks didn't grow over night.

I'm confused by your comment here. Both Paul and Banks are being asked to do something new?

Banks is coming from a system at K State where the receivers did not run pro routes. As a Redskins receiver, he didn't get the reps the others did because he was seen a specialist (we have discussed this before on why he was not incorporated into the offense more his first two years). Last night was the first time, he was featured as a receiver in a professional game - before he would run bubble screens and maybe get in on a play or two. THAT was something new for him last night. He has never been asked to be one of the guys at receiver. In practice, he clearly showed that he CAN run the routes, but old habits resurface when the spot light comes on for many players learning something new. If he wants to be on this team, he will work to overcome that. You have made his height a big deal - the coaches haven't. I respect your right to believe that his height is a big deal and post it on these boards - now respect my right to challenge you. Discuss or ignore!

[the poster]

on second take, the offensive line did a better job than I thought. I reviewed it again, just watching the o-line with the following observations:

1. the running game in the first series was stymied despite the fact that it was pretty well blocked. For ONE exception: both failed plays was because Tyler Polumbus missed his assignment. Polumbus did okay in pass pro but run blocking he was pretty weak. I dont know if Jamaal Brown is the answer, but you will want to have something better than Polumbus during the season. C-


2. RG ADam Gettis, I have to admit, was surprising. He playesd very well with virtually no bad plays and some very good plays. Now what you want to see is can he do this each week. I'd give him an A in this game, he was really good.


3. Center Will Montgomery. What can I say, I think he's a mediocre center and would serve the redskins more as a 6th lineman who could backup all interior positions. He had a decent game. He's not horrible, he does get pushed around from time to time, but he's allright I guess. C.


4. LG Maurice Hurt. He played decently. No problems I could see from him in the very little amount of time he was in there. B

5. Trent Williams - obviously he's the star of this unit . A.

The problem was with the backups......

Rookie Josh Lerebius. He certainly looked like a rookie in his first NFL game. He missed assignments and he got overpowered, several times. Adam Gettis is further along than Lerebius at this point. He did not have a very good game, at all. D.

Tom Compton was okay from what I saw. Jordan Black struggled. Martinez, RG, was fair. But of all the offensive linemen that played in game #1, the guy that stood out the most (bad or good) was Erik Cook for playing bad. He was awful. He got pushed back OFTEN, he missed (whiffed) blocks completely, and was slow and played with horrible leverage. If there's one guy that you dont want on the field in a real game, its him. F.

All in all, it wasn't too bad but they definately miss Lichtensteiger and Brown. RT in particular is something that could be a problem this season.

[SkinsFreak]

Qoutes are from SkinsFreak:

Red, is Brandon Banks your little brother or something? Geez... I happen to mention Banks' size as a potential concern based off what I saw last night and you've jumped to his defense like he's your kid brother and I'm the neighborhood bully who is picking on the little guy because of his size

.

You happened to feel free to speak your piece on a a player and then when somebody counters, you get on the defensive? You don't have respond, but you do, why? It is called a discussion board. Do you want to discuss? If not, ignore.

Now, get it right. I am not defending Banks' performance - look at my posts again - his performance was poor, but there were bright spots.

Wow... dude, I was joking... that was meant as tongue-n-cheek to lighten the mood. That's why I included 2 smileys. I guess it didn't work. I'll try better next time. I'm not attacking your opinion and I'm not on the defensive in any way, shape or form. I thought I was engaging in the discussion by simply contributing to a shared opinion while not attacking others opinions.

I am challenging you on you height issues with Banks!

That's fine, challenge away. However, I've never specifically mentioned his height, save for my comment about Banks not being able to out-jump anyone. I recognize and acknowledge there are several vertically challenged players in this league who are considered very good players. There are not, however, very many who are of such slight build, and that's the concern I'm referring to when I use the word "size."

Height is only one characteristic of size. When I was speaking about his "size," it's his weight and slight build that was the more significant concern. His height is just one part of it, but certainly not the most significant. And since you included John Keim's comments and opinions, which were similar to mine, I believe that is what he is referring to as well. Both Keim and I spoke about Banks potentially being out-muscled for contested passes, DB's running through him as the ball arrives, being able to bump or physically shield the defender away when attempting to secure a pass, or the fact that physical defenders can easily run him over, or run through or over him to intercept passes. These aspects of the game have less to do with height and more to do weight of physical build.

Height has to be a concern on many levels? Yeah, tell that to Shanny!

Again, I used the word "size," which includes other physical traits such as weight and physical build. If your comment accurately reflected my prior post by saying... "Size is a concern on may levels"? Then I would respond with a "yes."

Did you see any durability issues last night? Then why bring it up when discussing the post game?

Durability and injuries have already been an issue with Banks, and a slight build, low weight and small stature are concerns for a WR with prior injury issues being able to take on punishing hits from LB's and DB's who could out-weight him by 100 lbs. Since Banks has already suffered prior injuries, to the point where those injuries prohibited Shanahan from working him out as a receiver last year, then yes, I believe it's a hugely relevant point of discussion in the evaluation process of which players will make the final cut, especially when there's stiff competition for a specific roster position. Just because he didn't sustain any injuries last night in no way means it's not a factor in the evaluation process.

why is it OK to express your opinion and me to not express mine

You've got me confused again. Where did I say it wasn't OK for you or anyone else to express your opinion? Further, where did I even challenge your opinions? In fact, I've agreed with much of everything you've said.

Banks is coming from a system at K State where the receivers did not run pro routes

Oh... my bad. Perhaps you could explain the difference between a college slant pattern and a pro slant pattern. Or the difference between a K State post pattern and a pro post pattern. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but I've always been under the assumption that although there may be different terminology used to describe the route tree in college, the patterns themselves are fairly similar. A dig route is a dig route, regardless of what you call it and regardless of whether you run it in college or the pros. The fact remains that Banks has been educated and participated as a WR both in college and during his tenure with the Skins.

But whatever. You are certainly not the only supporter of Banks and I respect those who back him up and the reasons for their support. I just don't believe Banks has what it takes to be a legitimate WR in this league. That's just my opinion, and it's also shared by others. I acknowledge that Banks has done well enough in practice to warrant the coaches wanting to get an extended look at him at WR in actual games. That's rather evident and is why they targeted him 9 times last night. Good for Banks. I hope he takes advantage of his opportunity. But I think we can both agree that he didn't get off to a good start last night.

[Deadskins]

the fact that physical defenders can easily run him over, or run through or over him to intercept passes.

That is called pass interference. The defender has the same right to go for the ball as the receiver, but he can't go through him to do it.

[1niksder]

Just watched the Garcon sideline play from the first series in HD slo-mo, and it was definitely a catch.

Here's the link to the evidence:


Garcon makes the sideline catch. Referee's blow the call and here's the proof

That's a catch without any doubt...

[SouthLondonRedskin]

So if that had been rightly ruled a catch and his other incomplete wasn't dropped (by Paul I think?) he'd have been 6 for 6.

Without getting carried away, it's only the first pre-season game etc. etc... but when did we last have a QB put it where it's meant to be six times in a row!?!!?!

[Red_One43]

Excluding RGIII, what rookie stood out the most?


Offense:

Adam Gettis - first game, hadn't worked with the starters until last Monday. Showed a lot of promise.

Liked Morris and Cousins as well, but have to go with Gettis.

Defense:

Richard Crawford - From the way he played in the secondary and on punt returns, he is the sleeper of the draft class.

I like Bernstein as well, that guy loved to hit and showed in in the game.

Keim's take on the rookie performance's

Mike Jones on Alfred Morris

[Red_One43]

So if that had been rightly ruled a catch and his other incomplete wasn't dropped (by Paul I think?) he'd have been 6 for 6.

Without getting carried away, it's only the first pre-season game etc. etc... but when did we last have a QB put it where it's meant to be six times in a row!?!!?!

I am going to get carried away, we would have scored on that drive. It's preseason, but nothing wrong with celebrating the moment.

[SkinsFreak]

the fact that physical defenders can easily run him over, or run through or over him to intercept passes.

That is called pass interference. The defender has the same right to go for the ball as the receiver, but he can't go through him to do it.

True. I should have worded that differently.

But here's another evaluation similar to what I'm talking about...

4.) Brandon Banks got his chances - Coach Mike Shanahan was serious about wanting to see if Brandon Banks can make this team as a receiver. The 5-foot-7 third-year pro was targeted nine times - more than any other wideout - but managed just two catches for seven total yards. Banks didn’t get the separation from Bills defenders that he did from Redskins corner Cedric Griffin in practices. And it looked as if a lack of size hurt Banks at times. Four of the incompletions came as a result of defenders either knocking the ball away from Banks, or shielding him from passes. On another route, Banks slipped.

So I'll leave it at that. The point has been made. I'd actually like to see Banks bounce back with a better performance next Saturday night against the Bears.

[Red_One43]

the fact that physical defenders can easily run him over, or run through or over him to intercept passes.

That is called pass interference. The defender has the same right to go for the ball as the receiver, but he can't go through him to do it.

True. I should have worded that differently.

But here's another evaluation similar to what I'm talking about...

4.) Brandon Banks got his chances - Coach Mike Shanahan was serious about wanting to see if Brandon Banks can make this team as a receiver. The 5-foot-7 third-year pro was targeted nine times - more than any other wideout - but managed just two catches for seven total yards. Banks didn’t get the separation from Bills defenders that he did from Redskins corner Cedric Griffin in practices. And it looked as if a lack of size hurt Banks at times. Four of the incompletions came as a result of defenders either knocking the ball away from Banks, or shielding him from passes. On another route, Banks slipped.

So I'll leave it at that. The point has been made. I'd actually like to see Banks bounce back with a better performance next Saturday night against the Bears.

I'll respnd to this on the Who Stays thread.

[Irn-Bru]

That's a catch without any doubt...

Yes, not even close. I wonder what the ref (who in that shot has a pretty clear look at where Garcon's feet are) could have been thinking.

[1niksder]

That's a catch without any doubt...

Yes, not even close. I wonder what the ref (who in that shot has a pretty clear look at where Garcon's feet are) could have been thinking.

He was wondering what he'll be doing next week because he knows the NFL will be bringing the REAL refs back at any cost.

This was a bad call but not as bad as calling that touchback when the ball was down at the four yard line but that was nothing compared to the guy that called for holding on a punt return here last night.

How do you get called for holding on a punt return while you are returning the punt



I stopped watching after that, but switched back to see the Gints blow the game

[DarthMonk]

Post-game notes after watching again.

1st half:

Cousins comes in to run 2 minute. He makes 4 PERFECT throws. Paul drops 2 of them.

5th throw is WAY behind a wide open Josh Morgan for a pick. A good throw has Morgan being dragged down from behind deep in Bills' territory or scoring.

6th throw is an 8 yard in to Morgan. Morgan makes an excellent catch on a very low throw.

8th throw, 3rd and 2, slant to Morgan, complete for 8. Good route, good throw, good catch.

With Rex in the game Morgan made very tough catch in traffic on a ball that is WAY behind him. Bobble .. yes. Caught it ... in traffic ... terrible throw.

Morgan had a very good first half.

2nd half:

2nd and 6 from our 31. Cousins throws strike to Morgan who makes catch on a 9 yard out. NFL quality action.

After underthrowing Banks, Cousins overthrows Morgan by 5 yards. No one should have a problem with Morgan's effort here. Morgan sights badly thrown ball, adjusts, leaps, extends arm, and comes up short. The ball is WAY overthrown. Not even close.

Next series Cousins throws perfect cross to Robinson for 17 yards.

Next play Cousins on run hits Quinn in hands inside 15 and he drops it. May have been tipped late by a desparate LB.

On 3rd and 4 Cousins hits Tristan Davis on a nice circle pass for a 1st down. Nice call, route, throw, and catch.

Cousins throws slant WAY behind Austin. Was he supposed to hook or just a bad throw?

Next play he hits Robinson in stride on a shallow cross for 7. Tightly covered, good throw, good catch. Muddy pocket too. Holding negates but nice play by these 2.

Next play under pressure sees throw to Austin over middle go just high.

Two passes to Paulsen are broken up and then Cousins throws a terrific 12 yard dig to Robonson on 4rd and 6 for a 1st down. Good route, good throw.

Cousins goes deep to Robinson. Interference. Good play. Slight underthrow.

Kneel.

Cousins showed way more good than bad. I understand mixed reviews of him.

Why does anyone say Morgan had a bad game? He was terrific.

DarthMonk

[Red_One43]

DarthMonk Wrote:

Why does anyone say Morgan had a bad game? He was terrific.

After carefully reading your review of Morgan's catches, I will change my opinion to terrific game for Morgan - Thanks for the post.

I liked Cousins all the way. He had some bad throws, but I do keep in mind that he is a rookie. I love his leadership.