Flynn Lions Analyis

[CanesSkins26]

A good read from Hogs Haven

Here is a breakdown of all 6 of Flynn's TD's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sDYZYmn7tE

TD #1 - Ball is on the Lions 7 yard line. The play is a quick hitch/stop route to Nelson. You can see the defender is in position to make the play, but Nelson throws him a wicked stiff-arm, and beats the safety and LB's to the end zone. This is all Nelson.

TD #2 - Ball is on the Green Bay 20 yard line. The play is a quick screen to Grant. Grant simply outraces the defense 80 yards to the endzone. This play is set up by some good downfield blocks by the WR's, but most of this in on Grant.

TD #3 - Ball is on the Lions 39 yard line. The play is a go route to Nelson, and you can see that the Detroit has excellent coverage. The safety is cheated up, and can't recover to help. Great catch by Nelson.

TD #4 - Ball is on the Packers 42 yard line. The play is a play-action post route, against a single high safety(one of my favorite plays). The safety, again, is out of position, and can't get back to help. The rule of a safety, is that they should always be as deep as the deepest man, and obviously he was not. Excellent pass by Flynn. The ball travels 50 yards in the air, so he shows decent arm strength.

TD #5 - Ball is on the Lions 35 yard line. The play is a simple crossing route by Driver. Again, the safety takes a poor angle, and Driver simply beats him to the endzone. This ball travled 10 yards in th air.

TD #6 - Ball is on the Lions 4 yard line. The play is a supposed to be a fade to the great TE Finley, who is split out wide, and lined up one-on-one against a safety, but Flynn throws the ball early and inside. Finley makes a great adjustment in front of the defender who is playing the fade, and makes a great catch for the TD. How do I know this play was a designed fade?, Watch the move Finley makes when he comes off the line.

223 yards came from those 6 TD's, and all but one were because of great plays by the guys who caught the ball. The 58 yard TD was a great throw by Flynn.

Notice on all 6 TD's, he goes to his first read every time.

So, let me ask you. Was Flynn's 6 TD, 480 yard record breaking performance more about him, or more about who was playing around him, and the defense he was facing?

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/4/26814 ... erformance

[PAPDOG67]

This analysis is from someone who is obviously no fan of Flynn's. I think he doens't nearly give the guy enough credit on this breakdown. Particularly on the Driver TD, he hits the guy right in stride which helps him keep his distance on the DB and take it to the house. Also one thing I do know is this, GB has had only 2 QBs in the last 20+ years, 1 a guaranteed HOFer, the other 1 well on his way, but Matt Flynn now holds an majority of the single game records in GB history. I'm not saying he will come in here or anywhere else and be a savior, but its nothing to poo poo on.

[frankcal20]

Sounds like a perfect example of a QB coming to the line of scrimmage, reading the defense and making the correct read on the play to put the players in position to make a play. Thankfully for him, he is surrounded by talent who can make correct adjustments to balls being put in the right position for them to make that play.

Congrats to the Packers for having 11 guys on the field who helped Flynn be successful. But don't forget that someone had to put the ball there. You could have everything right and the ball could've gone in the dirt like DMac did while here or make the wrong read and he threw into triple coverage like Rex does.

[The Hogster]

I wouldn't go so far as to discredit his performance. It was a good performance. But, that ONE performance on that ONE great offense doesn't mean that Flynn is capable of duplicating that kind of production in a (i) different offense he's not familiar with and (ii) with different players who don't have nearly the same talent (iii) on a consistent basis.

I.E. The Redskins.

[frankcal20]

Don't both teams run a similar version of the WCO? Arn't both coaches descendants of the Bill Walsh coaching tree? The only difference in our offense is that we use a more run heavy zone blocking scheme instead of a pro-style run game. If you want anyone coaching the ZBS is Mike Shanahan. With a crap offensive line, Helu & Co were very productive all season long. What we lacked was QB & WR production. Flynn is an upgrade over Rex and that upgrade would've made the difference in a number of those games.

[The Hogster]

Don't both teams run a similar version of the WCO? Arn't both coaches descendants of the Bill Walsh coaching tree? The only difference in our offense is that we use a more run heavy zone blocking scheme instead of a pro-style run game. If you want anyone coaching the ZBS is Mike Shanahan. With a crap offensive line, Helu & Co were very productive all season long. What we lacked was QB & WR production. Flynn is an upgrade over Rex and that upgrade would've made the difference in a number of those games.

That term WCO is a misnomer. The offense has so many different variations that it's hard to even recognize them as the same. The Philly Offense doesn't look much like the Green Bay offense. And, the Green Bay offense doesn't look much like the Houston, Washington offense.

The play selection and plays are different. Maybe some of the terminology is the same, but it's not the same thing. Green Bay runs alot of back shoulder, timing routes. Their offense is tighter, higher paced, and has more 3 & 5 step drops. Quite honestly, Green Bay runs a more authentic version of the WC offense. Remember Jerry Rice & John Taylor catching those quick slants & hitches and going for 25 + yards like it's easy? Green Bay plays more of that style, and Rodgers has mastered the back shoulder throw much like Brees has. Their out breaking route trees are extensive, and their receivers are trusted to run option routes that their QBs can hit them on.

The Houston, Washington offense is slower paced, and has more longer developing plays and quite frankly the play selection is not similar. Not to mention Green Bay has receivers that can do things ours can't.

Maybe we have those kinds of plays in this offense. But, as of right now, we (i) don't run them often, and (ii) don't have players with skills similar to the receivers that GB has.

[1niksder]

Don't both teams run a similar version of the WCO? Arn't both coaches descendants of the Bill Walsh coaching tree? The only difference in our offense is that we use a more run heavy zone blocking scheme instead of a pro-style run game. If you want anyone coaching the ZBS is Mike Shanahan. With a crap offensive line, Helu & Co were very productive all season long. What we lacked was QB & WR production. Flynn is an upgrade over Rex and that upgrade would've made the difference in a number of those games.

That term WCO is a misnomer. The offense has so many different variations that it's hard to even recognize them as the same. The Philly Offense doesn't look much like the Green Bay offense. And, the Green Bay offense doesn't look much like the Houston, Washington offense.

The play selection and plays are different. Maybe some of the terminology is the same, but it's not the same thing. Green Bay runs alot of back shoulder, timing routes. Their offense is tighter, higher paced, and has more 3 & 5 step drops. Quite honestly, Green Bay runs a more authentic version of the WC offense. Remember Jerry Rice & John Taylor catching those quick slants & hitches and going for 25 + yards like it's easy? Green Bay plays more of that style, and Rodgers has mastered the back shoulder throw much like Brees has. Their out breaking route trees are extensive, and their receivers are trusted to run option routes that their QBs can hit them on.

The Houston, Washington offense is slower paced, and has more longer developing plays and quite frankly the play selection is not similar. Not to mention Green Bay has receivers that can do things ours can't.

Maybe we have those kinds of plays in this offense. But, as of right now, we (i) don't run them often, and (ii) don't have players with skills similar to the receivers that GB has.

It's the same WCO, with different run schemes and the QB reads are reversed in the Houston and Washington versions. So it the WCO but really it's just terminology and routes, it's as different as it's the same if you ask me.

[Red_One43]

The main difference between the Shanny WCO and GB WCO is the first read is often downfield. That is why Shanny wants a strong armed QB. Remember, at one point in the 2010 season, McNabb led the league in passes of 50 yards or more.

“Mike made it more of a hybrid offense,” Theismann says. “What he basically did, was he created within the concept of the West Coast offense –- which is get the ball out of your hands and let people run with it –- a more downfield attack with it. . . . You want to build in the opportunity for big plays rather than just hoping for it just happening on the result of a short pass and then a long run. Mike was one of the first that took the West Coast offense in its truest form and expanded it, not sideline to sideline, but . . . down the field.”

Kyle's philosophy:

“The one thing I can say that our offense is going to do, is we're going to attack, and we're going to attack you aggressively, whether we're running the ball or throwing the ball.

It doesn't matter

, just whatever the weakness is.”

Oh yes it does matter!!! When you are running that ball well ...


McNabb reiterates the downfiled emphasis of the Shanny's WCO:

He has an attitude of being able to go downfield, and attack there,

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/08/kyl ... e-665.html[url[/url]

[Red_One43]

Don't both teams run a similar version of the WCO? Arn't both coaches descendants of the Bill Walsh coaching tree? The only difference in our offense is that we use a more run heavy zone blocking scheme instead of a pro-style run game. If you want anyone coaching the ZBS is Mike Shanahan. With a crap offensive line, Helu & Co were very productive all season long. What we lacked was QB & WR production. Flynn is an upgrade over Rex and that upgrade would've made the difference in a number of those games.

That term WCO is a misnomer. The offense has so many different variations that it's hard to even recognize them as the same. The Philly Offense doesn't look much like the Green Bay offense. And, the Green Bay offense doesn't look much like the Houston, Washington offense.

The play selection and plays are different. Maybe some of the terminology is the same, but it's not the same thing. Green Bay runs alot of back shoulder, timing routes. Their offense is tighter, higher paced, and has more 3 & 5 step drops. Quite honestly, Green Bay runs a more authentic version of the WC offense. Remember Jerry Rice & John Taylor catching those quick slants & hitches and going for 25 + yards like it's easy? Green Bay plays more of that style, and Rodgers has mastered the back shoulder throw much like Brees has. Their out breaking route trees are extensive, and their receivers are trusted to run option routes that their QBs can hit them on.

The Houston, Washington offense is slower paced, and has more longer developing plays and quite frankly the play selection is not similar. Not to mention Green Bay has receivers that can do things ours can't.

Maybe we have those kinds of plays in this offense. But, as of right now, we (i) don't run them often, and (ii) don't have players with skills similar to the receivers that GB has.

It's the same WCO, with different run schemes and the QB reads are reversed in the Houston and Washington versions. So it the WCO but really it's just terminology and routes, it's as different as it's the same if you ask me.

McNabb spent 11 seasons in Andy Reid's West Coast offense in Philadelphia, but describes Shanahan's offense as “a drastic change.” Says McNabb: “I think lots of times that West Coast offense gets thrown around, but this isn't the West Coast offense, by [any] means.”

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/08/kyl ... page3.html

[1niksder]

That term WCO is a misnomer. The offense has so many different variations that it's hard to even recognize them as the same. The Philly Offense doesn't look much like the Green Bay offense. And, the Green Bay offense doesn't look much like the Houston, Washington offense.

The play selection and plays are different. Maybe some of the terminology is the same, but it's not the same thing. Green Bay runs alot of back shoulder, timing routes. Their offense is tighter, higher paced, and has more 3 & 5 step drops. Quite honestly, Green Bay runs a more authentic version of the WC offense. Remember Jerry Rice & John Taylor catching those quick slants & hitches and going for 25 + yards like it's easy? Green Bay plays more of that style, and Rodgers has mastered the back shoulder throw much like Brees has. Their out breaking route trees are extensive, and their receivers are trusted to run option routes that their QBs can hit them on.

The Houston, Washington offense is slower paced, and has more longer developing plays and quite frankly the play selection is not similar. Not to mention Green Bay has receivers that can do things ours can't.

Maybe we have those kinds of plays in this offense. But, as of right now, we (i) don't run them often, and (ii) don't have players with skills similar to the receivers that GB has.

It's the same WCO, with different run schemes and the QB reads are reversed in the Houston and Washington versions. So it the WCO but really it's just terminology and routes, it's as different as it's the same if you ask me.

McNabb spent 11 seasons in Andy Reid's West Coast offense in Philadelphia, but describes Shanahan's offense as “a drastic change.” Says McNabb: “I think lots of times that West Coast offense gets thrown around, but this isn't the West Coast offense, by [any] means.”

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/08/kyl ... page3.html

McNabb didn't know it WCO because he never took the time to learn it. Can't really let what he says about it hold any weight

[Red_One43]

It's the same WCO, with different run schemes and the QB reads are reversed in the Houston and Washington versions. So it the WCO but really it's just terminology and routes, it's as different as it's the same if you ask me.

McNabb spent 11 seasons in Andy Reid's West Coast offense in Philadelphia, but describes Shanahan's offense as “a drastic change.” Says McNabb: “I think lots of times that West Coast offense gets thrown around, but this isn't the West Coast offense, by [any] means.”

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/08/kyl ... page3.html

McNabb didn't know it WCO because he never took the time to learn it. Can't really let what he says about it hold any weight

I knew that comeback was a'comin'

[StorminMormon86]

Flynn is an upgrade over Rex and that upgrade would've made the difference in a number of those games.

If Flynn just so happened to have a lucky, fluke performance, why isn't Aaron Rodgers scoring 6 or more TDs every other game? Flynn was playing with the SAME TEAM that Rodgers does week in and week out. And it was against one of the best defenses in the league this year to boot.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Teams typically struggle with backups. It'd be interesting to see him play for the whole year. You have to take into account that he has amazing WR's. That shouldn't disccredit him because he still has to make the correct read, do so on time and place it where the WR can catch it in stride.

[riggofan]

Definitely have to take that performance with a grain of salt. But it was his second strong showing. He played well against the Patriots the year before.

I agree with CLL too about teams struggling with backups. Beck was decent against the Eagles when they weren't prepared and expecting him.

[StorminMormon86]

That shouldn't disccredit him because he still has to make the correct read, do so on time and place it where the WR can catch it in stride.

In other words, do everything Rex Grossman can't.

[Chris Luva Luva]

That shouldn't disccredit him because he still has to make the correct read, do so on time and place it where the WR can catch it in stride.

In other words, do everything Rex Grossman can't.

Well, things Rex can't do with any sort of consistency.

[1niksder]

A good read from Hogs Haven

Here is a breakdown of all 6 of Flynn's TD's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sDYZYmn7tE

TD #1 - Ball is on the Lions 7 yard line. The play is a quick hitch/stop route to Nelson. You can see the defender is in position to make the play, but Nelson throws him a wicked stiff-arm, and beats the safety and LB's to the end zone. This is all Nelson.

TD #2 - Ball is on the Green Bay 20 yard line. The play is a quick screen to Grant. Grant simply outraces the defense 80 yards to the endzone. This play is set up by some good downfield blocks by the WR's, but most of this in on Grant.

TD #3 - Ball is on the Lions 39 yard line. The play is a go route to Nelson, and you can see that the Detroit has excellent coverage. The safety is cheated up, and can't recover to help. Great catch by Nelson.

TD #4 - Ball is on the Packers 42 yard line. The play is a play-action post route, against a single high safety(one of my favorite plays). The safety, again, is out of position, and can't get back to help. The rule of a safety, is that they should always be as deep as the deepest man, and obviously he was not. Excellent pass by Flynn. The ball travels 50 yards in the air, so he shows decent arm strength.

TD #5 - Ball is on the Lions 35 yard line. The play is a simple crossing route by Driver. Again, the safety takes a poor angle, and Driver simply beats him to the endzone. This ball travled 10 yards in th air.

TD #6 - Ball is on the Lions 4 yard line. The play is a supposed to be a fade to the great TE Finley, who is split out wide, and lined up one-on-one against a safety, but Flynn throws the ball early and inside. Finley makes a great adjustment in front of the defender who is playing the fade, and makes a great catch for the TD. How do I know this play was a designed fade?, Watch the move Finley makes when he comes off the line.

223 yards came from those 6 TD's, and all but one were because of great plays by the guys who caught the ball. The 58 yard TD was a great throw by Flynn.

Notice on all 6 TD's, he goes to his first read every time.

So, let me ask you. Was Flynn's 6 TD, 480 yard record breaking performance more about him, or more about who was playing around him, and the defense he was facing?

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/4/26814 ... erformance

OR just look at what Brees did to the Lions defense

[The Hogster]

Don't say anything bad about Matt Flynn. He's the new hot guy. He's the new cool kid. He's the new franchise. He's the guy we need to sign!! because he's the next Aaron Rodgers. He's the guy that will save the Skins. Either him Luck or Griffin! We've gotta have him! Yay, let's do whatever it takes. Trade up, trade people, trade picks. Now is the time, we gotta go balls to the walls to get one of these three guys!! Yay. Yay Yay

[Chris Luva Luva]

OR just look at what Brees did to the Lions defense

So you're saying that Flynn is Bree's 2.0?? I think that's what you're saying.

[1niksder]

OR just look at what Brees did to the Lions defense

So you're saying that Flynn is Bree's 2.0?? I think that's what you're saying.

Brees torched them... Flynn had a good game against a bad D.

That being said Rex lost to them twice

[riggofan]

A good read from Hogs Haven

Here is a breakdown of all 6 of Flynn's TD's: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sDYZYmn7tE

TD #1 - Ball is on the Lions 7 yard line. The play is a quick hitch/stop route to Nelson. You can see the defender is in position to make the play, but Nelson throws him a wicked stiff-arm, and beats the safety and LB's to the end zone. This is all Nelson.

TD #2 - Ball is on the Green Bay 20 yard line. The play is a quick screen to Grant. Grant simply outraces the defense 80 yards to the endzone. This play is set up by some good downfield blocks by the WR's, but most of this in on Grant.

TD #3 - Ball is on the Lions 39 yard line. The play is a go route to Nelson, and you can see that the Detroit has excellent coverage. The safety is cheated up, and can't recover to help. Great catch by Nelson.

TD #4 - Ball is on the Packers 42 yard line. The play is a play-action post route, against a single high safety(one of my favorite plays). The safety, again, is out of position, and can't get back to help. The rule of a safety, is that they should always be as deep as the deepest man, and obviously he was not. Excellent pass by Flynn. The ball travels 50 yards in the air, so he shows decent arm strength.

TD #5 - Ball is on the Lions 35 yard line. The play is a simple crossing route by Driver. Again, the safety takes a poor angle, and Driver simply beats him to the endzone. This ball travled 10 yards in th air.

TD #6 - Ball is on the Lions 4 yard line. The play is a supposed to be a fade to the great TE Finley, who is split out wide, and lined up one-on-one against a safety, but Flynn throws the ball early and inside. Finley makes a great adjustment in front of the defender who is playing the fade, and makes a great catch for the TD. How do I know this play was a designed fade?, Watch the move Finley makes when he comes off the line.

223 yards came from those 6 TD's, and all but one were because of great plays by the guys who caught the ball. The 58 yard TD was a great throw by Flynn.

Notice on all 6 TD's, he goes to his first read every time.

So, let me ask you. Was Flynn's 6 TD, 480 yard record breaking performance more about him, or more about who was playing around him, and the defense he was facing?

http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/1/4/26814 ... erformance

OR just look at what Brees did to the Lions defense

Can't you make the same argument about Aaron Rodgers though as well? I was just looking at the week before Flynn's game, where Rodgers put up 300 yards and 5 TDs.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201112250 ... &tab=recap

Three of those TDs were 2 yd passes inside the red zone. Another was from the Bears 7. And Rodgers hits Jordy Nelson for one sweet 55 yarder. If you watch the highlights, the Packers WRs get a ton of yards after the catch.

I'm not saying this makes the case for Flynn or anything. Just not sure the way you're breaking down these touchdowns really says anything about whether or not he can play. What I like from that game is:

1) he threw the ball 44 times and only 1 INT
2) he battled in a 45-41 shootout with Matt Stafford who had an incredible year
3) He ran the 2-minute drill, took the ball 70 yards in 1:30 and threw the game winning pass

You still may be right that he is just a really good backup on a stacked team. I've just looked over the list of available FA QBs, and you've got to at least take a strong look at Flynn as an option even if its just to find somebody who is better than Grossman.

[CanesSkins26]

That shouldn't disccredit him because he still has to make the correct read, do so on time and place it where the WR can catch it in stride.

In other words, do everything Rex Grossman can't.

Who knows what Rex would do if you put him in the Packers offense. There are a lot of mediocre qbs in the NFL that would probably do well in Green Bay's offense on a limited basis.

[Chris Luva Luva]

That shouldn't disccredit him because he still has to make the correct read, do so on time and place it where the WR can catch it in stride.

In other words, do everything Rex Grossman can't.

Who knows what Rex would do if you put him in the Packers offense. There are a lot of mediocre qbs in the NFL that would probably do well in Green Bay's offense on a limited basis.

He'd still suck. The writing is on the wall. He did the crap that he's doing now when he was with the Bears. His decision making and lack of arm-strength have absolutely nothing to do with the offensive scheme. His inability to feel pressure and the resulting sack/fumble has NOTHING to do with the offensive scheme.

[SkinsJock]

Everybody (coaches & fans) were VERY wrong about Grossman - this guy is not a capable starting QB - he's barely a good back-up

Mike will not tolerate having a QB that turns the ball over
Grossman might be here this season but that is a clear sign about the lack of quality QBs available

Matt Flynn will be an upgrade

[CanesSkins26]

In other words, do everything Rex Grossman can't.

Who knows what Rex would do if you put him in the Packers offense. There are a lot of mediocre qbs in the NFL that would probably do well in Green Bay's offense on a limited basis.

He'd still suck. The writing is on the wall. He did the crap that he's doing now when he was with the Bears. His decision making and lack of arm-strength have absolutely nothing to do with the offensive scheme. His inability to feel pressure and the resulting sack/fumble has NOTHING to do with the offensive scheme.

I agree with what you say about Rex, but look at the highlights from the Detroit game. No pressure, open receivers, going to his first read every play and not really having to make decisions, and on the deep td to Nelson he under threw him (Flynn's arm is at best the same as Rex's). Under those kind of circumstances lots of mediocre qbs would do well.