Graham Ga-No Good

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:51 am

Gano is 26 of 35 while kickers that played against the Skins are 30 of 36. If you look strictly at the numbers without assigning any value to then it looks like Gano is a much w worse kicker.
Let look at those nine misses. One was a fumbled snap that Gsno still tried to kick even though he was stopped and the ball was almost laying flat on the ground. Four of the nine were blocked. Lets say Gano kicked one of those low and he is to blame for the block, that still leaves three plus the botched snap for four of the nine. One of the 26 that he made was partially blocked, but he still made that kick (last week).

So the field goal unit is responsible for the nine misses. Four or give should be blamed on the party of the FG unit not named Gano and four or five should be blamed on Gano. I'll blame him for five.

So opposing kickers have made 30 of 36 or 83% and Gano has made 26 of 31 (35 - the d he had no control over) which is 83%.

Another novel fact is FedEx field, in its history, has the lowest FG success rate of any NFL stadium. Some of that had to do with the fact that we have had crap kickers tyre entire time we have been playing at FedEx.

That is why I fine Gano a little slack. Realisticly, he is kicking at the NFL average this year. Yes, I know Hogster he has made only 26 of 35 in your mind and no mitigating factors will change the fact that when you go to NFL.com he is last on the list. I just tend to look at the whole picture not one stat line on some web site.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:08 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:Gano is 26 of 35 while kickers that played against the Skins are 30 of 36. If you look strictly at the numbers without assigning any value to then it looks like Gano is a much w worse kicker.
Let look at those nine misses. One was a fumbled snap that Gsno still tried to kick even though he was stopped and the ball was almost laying flat on the ground. Four of the nine were blocked. Lets say Gano kicked one of those low and he is to blame for the block, that still leaves three plus the botched snap for four of the nine. One of the 26 that he made was partially blocked, but he still made that kick (last week).

So the field goal unit is responsible for the nine misses. Four or give should be blamed on the party of the FG unit not named Gano and four or five should be blamed on Gano. I'll blame him for five.

So opposing kickers have made 30 of 36 or 83% and Gano has made 26 of 31 (35 - the d he had no control over) which is 83%.

Another novel fact is FedEx field, in its history, has the lowest FG success rate of any NFL stadium. Some of that had to do with the fact that we have had crap kickers tyre entire time we have been playing at FedEx.

That is why I fine Gano a little slack. Realisticly, he is kicking at the NFL average this year. Yes, I know Hogster he has made only 26 of 35 in your mind and no mitigating factors will change the fact that when you go to NFL.com he is last on the list. I just tend to look at the whole picture not one stat line on some web site.

A lot of excuses. What's the excuse for his putrid 66% rate from last year? I'm sure we can dig up film and blame someone else. And, who cares if it's tough to kick in FedEx? As long as this is our stadium, we will need a kicker who can kick here. As of right now, Suisham and Novak were better.

What's the excuse for his road misses? 2 in Dallas which is an indoor stadium :shock:

It was the wind in Miami though. Excuse, after excuse, after excuse. When does reality set in. Even Shanahan said he needs to get better or he's gone. Stop it with this loser mentality. Our guys are good it's okay

. No, it's really not.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:40 am

Skinsfan33, The old Meadowlands was without a doubt one of the worst stadiums to kick in and Tynes and previous recent Giant kickers have done fine there. I get what you are trying to prove about Gano and you can bet that has scoured the film to know if it is Gano or not on those misses. Another stat to look at which might be difficult for us fans is ho many times has Gano kicked the ball out of bounds compared to other kickers. How many times has he flubbed the kick off and/or didn't get the height kick off. We know he screwed up on one of the Jet kick offs because it was so blatant. But, regardless of all that, I think that it is safe to say that a decision on him won't be made untl the FA period and they might let him linger while they explore signing another FA. If they don't sign a guy, they will surely bring him back IMO.

To me, here is the key question: Does Gano have the mind set to kick in games that count? He does great in practice. He did great in pre season. He didn't get to kick in muddy conditions in 2010 like the TB and Giants games in 2010 in which he missed three short FGs in those two games. The one rainy game this year was the Seattle game where he had the blocks - maybe one his fault - these games would indicate the guy is unreliable in wet weather.

Mindset and weather issues could mean that Shanny will pursue the top FA kicker out there (anybody know who that is?) and then Gano is done.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:50 am

Red_One43 wrote:Skinsfan33, The old Meadowlands was without a doubt one of the worst stadiums to kick in and Tynes and previous recent Giant kickers have done fine there. I get what you are trying to prove about Gano and you can bet that has scoured the film to know if it is Gano or not on those misses. Another stat to look at which might be difficult for us fans is ho many times has Gano kicked the ball out of bounds compared to other kickers. How many times has he flubbed the kick off and/or didn't get the height kick off. We know he screwed up on one of the Jet kick offs because it was so blatant. But, regardless of all that, I think that it is safe to say that a decision on him won't be made untl the FA period and they might let him linger while they explore signing another FA. If they don't sign a guy, they will surely bring him back IMO.

To me, here is the key question: Does Gano have the mind set to kick in games that count? He does great in practice. He did great in pre season. He didn't get to kick in muddy conditions in 2010 like the TB and Giants games in 2010 in which he missed three short FGs in those two games. The one rainy game this year was the Seattle game where he had the blocks - maybe one his fault - these games would indicate the guy is unreliable in wet weather.

Mindset and weather issues could mean that Shanny will pursue the top FA kicker out there (anybody know who that is?) and then Gano is done.

Exactly my point. As I mentioned earlier, from Shanahan's press conferences, he's consistently praised for his performance in practice. He might be Adam Vinatieri in practice and Graham Gano in games. Unfortunately, our win loss record will be decided by games. And, he's shown that he has performance anxiety, nerves, or Lebron Syndrome. Either way, this team will be in close games for the forseeable future. Carrying a kicker whose at his worst under pressure is dangerous.

Look back at some of his misses. Some of them would have won games. Last year's Houston game would not have gone to overtime if Gano didn't choke. He's missed in other crucial spots as well.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:52 am

Some nice blocking on this one:

and this one:

... oops ... :shock:

He can punt too:

DarthMonk

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:53 am

^
^
^
^

That was my 1,000th post!

DarthMonk

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:18 am

Red_One43 wrote:You and I aren't in disagreement on Gano's year - It clearly wasn't good and worthy to move on.

Where we disagree is, to me, you want the cut or not re-sign Gano and it sounds like you want him gutted and hung out to dry so that he never kicks for the Skins again.

I believe that Shanny will make his decision during the FA period as to whether or not he resigns the Gano.

+1. That, to my mind, sums up why the debate has gone in circles for a little while.

I lean toward not moving on — still think his improvement and upside is too much to reject — but I can understand the position of people who are hoping he's not in B&G next year. With the emphasis on "year." :lol:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:39 am

I also find it interesting that the most extreme position represented in this thread — that of cutting Gano without delay to "send a message" — is the one most reliant on adjectives to do the work of argumentation:

sucks … miserable … as bad as it gets … suck @$$ … awful … terrible … Shank-A-Potamus … stinks … a bum … loser … putrid

All that in one thread, most used multiple times, and from one poster! :lol:

I guess it wins rhetorical points, but color me unpersuaded.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:52 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I also find it interesting that the most extreme position represented in this thread — that of cutting Gano without delay to "send a message" — is the one most reliant on adjectives to do the work of argumentation:

sucks … miserable … as bad as it gets … suck @$$ … awful … terrible … Shank-A-Potamus … stinks … a bum … loser … putrid

All that in one thread, most used multiple times, and from one poster! I guess it wins rhetorical points, but color me unpersuaded.

Joke much? BTW - I'm the only one relying on actual facts, Gano's statistics in this thread. All of the apologists merely speculate what you think his "potential" is and make excuses for his misses. Good luck with that.

You color yourself with this pointless blather. :lol:

If I see Gano in the street, it's not like I'm going to punch him in the face. It's not that serious. But, you people bend over backwards to defend a guy who has been the worst at his job, not 1 but 2 years in a row--yet out of the other sides of your mouths think guys like Brandon Banks & DeAngelo Hall don't deserve a roster spot. Keep it up skippy.

At the end of the day, we all have to watch the actual games and see what players do in them. Nothing else said matters.

Some of you are just biased, point blank. If a guy with 15 turnovers in 2 and 1/2 years gets a 15 yard penalty or blows a tackle, you want him hanged. Brandon Banks got stabbed in the offseason after being one of the most explosive players we've had in years, and there is an actual thread questioning whether he deserves a roster spot. All the while, Reed Doughty and Gano get passes. I don't expect to persuade anyone. Gano does it himself with his inability to make more than 7 out of 10 FGs. How can people take such positions and call themselves fans? Don't we want guys who can play? :lol:

I guess not. Loser mentality.

It's obvious, some of us evaluate guys based on their ability to play FOOTBALL. Others evaluate guys based on whether they like him or not. Typical Joe The Fan. Angry, biased, and with no facts to stand on.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:02 am

The Hogster wrote::shock: Joke much?

If you look at the number of emoticons I've used in this thread, you should have your answer.

BTW - I'm the only one relying on actual facts, Gano's statistics in this thread.

Incorrect on both counts: (1) I've discussed his stats at length — in fact, I've often focused on them, in part just for you, so that your constant "bending over backwards" and "making excuses" line would lose its effect, and (2) as I insinuate above, your argument relies on more than just the raw numbers — hence the abundance of choice words to describe poor Gano in the absence of having anything more to say.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:09 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
The Hogster wrote::shock: Joke much?

If you look at the number of emoticons I've used in this thread, you should have your answer.

BTW - I'm the only one relying on actual facts, Gano's statistics in this thread.

Incorrect on both counts: (1) I've discussed his stats at length — in fact, I've often focused on them, in part just for you, so that your constant "bending over backwards" and "making excuses" line would lose its effect, and (2) as I insinuate above, your argument relies on more than just the raw numbers — hence the abundance of choice words to describe poor Gano in the absence of having anything more to say.

Doesn't every kicker have to deal with blocks, or are the Redskins the only team that's had a kick blocked.

If you excuse Gano's blocks attributed to the line, then you need to excuse the other kicker's blocks that weren't their fault. As a result, their stats would go up and Gano would still be ranked near dead last. Every kicker deals with the same circumstances, snaps, holds, blocks, etc. You can't try and rewrite reality by giving Gano credit while not adjusting the other kickers' stats. Again, I'm looking at facts, you're being argumentative in an effort to give him a pass--but it's weak.

Is it the line's fault when he shanks the kickoff out of bounds? :lol:

Someone else blamed that on Danny Smith for asking him to do it.
:shock:

You guys crack me up.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:14 am

The Hogster wrote:[color=orange]Some of you are just biased, point blank.

I think the Hall/Banks comparisons as you are making them are largely irrelevant. You are grouping a large number of people together to make this argument such that the "some of you" is a meaningless abstraction. Pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you about Gano and has criticized Hall = making excuses for a kicker and wanting to hang the CB. :lol:

Look, it would help if you could find a way to deal with the frustration and take particular arguments for what they are worth. I do not think I've been bending over backwards for anyone in this thread. The posts are there and you can deal with the arguments if you want, or you can keep railing against your perception of the general crowd in nonspecific ways.

As for Hall, I won't discuss him at length here, but I've not been satisfied with him for a couple of years. I don't want him hanged by any means but I'm not satisfied with his performance, just as I'm not satisfied with Gano's. And suffice it to say that if Hall was making Gano money and had Gano responsibility I'd feel different about him.

As for Banks . . . well, these discussions do belong in another thread.

I have to say: I have no idea where Reed Doughty came from. :lol:

I didn't know he was overpraised on the site. Most people seem to agree that he can't cover and is basically a backup safety at best.

It's obvious, some of us evaluate guys based on their ability to play FOOTBALL.

See, this is the problem. If you'd pull your head out of . . . its current location . . . long enough to notice, you'd see that there are other positions being argued for in this thread that make the case from statistics and observations of the field. As long as you are convinced that everyone is crazy but you, you aren't going to make much progress.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:17 am

The Hogster wrote:Doesn't every kicker have to deal with blocks, or are the Redskins the only team that's had a kick blocked. If you excuse Gano's blocks attributed to the line, then you need to excuse the other kicker's blocks that weren't their fault. As a result, their stats would go up and Gano would still be ranked near dead last. Every kicker deals with the same circumstances, snaps, holds, blocks, etc.

Actually, Gano has dealt with a higher-than average occurence of these things. I've already dealt with this earlier in the thread.

You can't try and rewrite reality by giving Gano credit while not adjusting the other kickers' stats. Again, I'm looking at facts, you're being argumentative in an effort to give him a pass--but it's weak.

I've done that comparison and it doesn't change the substance of my argument.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:36 am

Irn Bru wrote:

I've done that comparison and it doesn't change the substance of my argument.

Oh, so the dog ate your homework? :lol:

Let's see where you are getting the impression that Gano has dealt with more blocks, muffs, bad snaps etc than most if not all other kickers over the last TWO YEARS. He was an embarrasing 66% kicker last season.

I highly doubt you're breaking down game film on all 32 teams and determining whether the kicker had the appropriate height on a blocked kick. But, whatever makes you think your argument holds water--go right ahead.

I think the Hall/Banks comparisons as you are making them are largely irrelevant. You are grouping a large number of people together to make this argument such that the "some of you" is a meaningless abstraction. Pretty much anyone who doesn't agree with you about Gano and has criticized Hall = making excuses for a kicker and wanting to hang the CB.

I am not saying ALL, hence the use of the word SOME.

Hall and Banks are not relevant to Gano. But, some of us who talk pure football realize that many of the posters here give some players a pass while criticizing others. It isn't relevant to this argument, but it's relevant to the poster's credibility if they're obviously not evaluating every player the same.

That's been duly noted, and it's getting pathetic. Redskins fans should want the best players who can perform when it counts and play well together. Gano has performed poorly, and with kickers like:

Caleb Sturgis, FLA, who is making 84% of his attempts this season.
David Ruffer, Notre Dame, who has a 95% FG make percentage
Derrick Dimke, Illinois with an 85%

All are in college and may be available as free agents. I find it hard to believe that we feel compelled to give Gano chance after chance while other teams bring in new youth at the K position.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:40 am

The Hogster wrote:Irn Bru wrote:

I've done that comparison and it doesn't change the substance of my argument.

Oh, so the dog ate your homework?

Um . . . no?

Let's see where you are getting the impression that Gano has dealt with more blocks, muffs, bad snaps etc than most if not all other kickers??

NFL.com has stats, dude. I look at them. Pro football reference too. And I did some internet searching on the guys near Gano's level to see if they dealt with muffed snaps, bad blocking, etc. this year.

All are in college and may be available as free agents.

Great! Let's bring one or more into camp. I'm not sure why you thought I'd disagree with that.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:52 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Irn Bru wrote:

I've done that comparison and it doesn't change the substance of my argument.

Oh, so the dog ate your homework?

Um . . . no?

Let's see where you are getting the impression that Gano has dealt with more blocks, muffs, bad snaps etc than most if not all other kickers??

NFL.com has stats, dude. I look at them. Pro football reference too. And I did some internet searching on the guys near Gano's level to see if they dealt with muffed snaps, bad blocking, etc. this year.

All are in college and may be available as free agents.

Great! Let's bring one or more into camp. I'm not sure why you thought I'd disagree with that.

OK. No link from you, but I guess I'll take your word for it. :lol:

Well, since you mentioned NFL.COM you will see that in addition to being near the bottom in FG% for 2 years in a row. He's also LEADING the league this year in Kickoffs out of bounds.

So he's the worst at kicking it through the upright, but he's the best at kicking it out of bonds. :shock:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... _OUTBOUNDS

To put that in perspective, that's roughly 60 yards in penalties. But, more than that, it gives the other team more chances to score on a short 60 YD field. How can you win like that against teams that can score? Why would we want our defense to be in that position?

So to recap, people blame Danny Smith for calling directional kicks to excuse the KO OOB.

We blame the line for most of his blocks.

And, we cite his ability to kick touchbacks, his "big leg" and "potential" to defend him. I'm pointing out that he's shown over 2 years that he's a 70% guy. He's like Shaq from the Free Throw Line, except Shaq did other things well.

BTW - The guy who blocked a few of Gano's kicks that we "blamed on the line" has somewhere around 8 or 9 blocks on the season. He didn't play the Skins every week. So, other kickers have to deal with that too, not just Gano the wonder kid. Ndamakung Suh blocked a FG just last week.

And, since you're suggesting that I have my head in my (blank) I'll explain. It's in there looking for your argument, because it's not worth....... :lol:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:01 pm

The Hogster wrote:OK. No link from you, but I guess I'll take your word for it. :/

Your post was hand-waving and vague. I don't think I'm obligated to line up a bunch of research (i.e., do work) for you when there isn't a specific claim to be addressed. As for taking my word, you don't have to. But I think I've been very fair throughout the thread and have explained how I got to my positions.

If you have some counter-argument with some substance — e.g., "You didn't adjust for the other kickers, and I can show you how this changes things. Look how X kicker had Y blocks, etc." — then obviously I can be proven wrong. Until then, however . . .

Well, since you mentioned NFL.COM you will see that in addition to being near the bottom in FG% for 2 years in a row.

Since you have been quoting my posts, can I assume you've read them? If so, why are you writing this as though it would be news to me?

He's also LEADING the league this year in Kickoffs out of bounds with.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... _OUTBOUNDS

To put that in perspective, that's roughly 60 yards in penalties. But, more than that, it gives the other team 3 chances to score on a short 60 YD field. How can you win like that against teams that can score? Why would we want our defense to be in that position.

So to recap, people blame Danny Smith for calling directional kicks to excuse the KO OOB.

I don't. I just think there are mitigating factors when considering the out of bounds kicks.

We blame the line for most of his blocks.

I did not. I only attributed the two blocks to bad blocking that Shanahan attributed.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:04 pm

The Hogster wrote:And, since you're suggesting that I have my head in my (blank) I'll explain. It's in there looking for your argument, because it's not worth.......

It's a few pages back now, but it's still there. I can safely assume you haven't seen it yet, since you seem to think only one person in this thread has made arguments from sound football stats/strategies perspective.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:15 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
The Hogster wrote:And, since you're suggesting that I have my head in my (blank) I'll explain. It's in there looking for your argument, because it's not worth.......

It's a few pages back now, but it's still there. I can safely assume you haven't seen it yet, since you seem to think only one person in this thread has made arguments from sound football stats/strategies perspective.

We will just agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of the Graham Gano who plays in games. I feel that 2 full seasons and 3 years in the NFL is plenty of time to evaluate a guy and it's time to move on.

He's inaccurate on kicks. But kicks pretty accurately out of bounds. I've had enough. Maybe cutting him as I would isn't going to happen. That's fine. But, I'm not going to defend his performance to date--it's been unacceptable. Carry on. :lol:

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:35 pm

Great links!

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage this year we are 31st at 74.29%.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... ersion-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Got Blocked Percentage this year we are 32st at a whopping 11.43%. This is worse than anyone since Tennessee in 2004.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... locked-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage (Excluding Blocks) we are 20th at 83.87% (26-31). Two of these misses are from over 50 (3 of 5). If Gano makes one more kick this year he's decimal places out of the top 10.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

I therefore say that if Gano can win the job again in camp we can look forward to him being an improving top 10 kicker with an above average leg.

BTW - we are also #2 in Kickoff in spite of the OOB kicks which were clearly called by Smith and often dribbled out around the 5 yard line. Just stop calling for 'em coach. Actually, maybe our gripe should go higher up. Maybe Shanny needs to see that Special Teams coaching is lacking on Place Kicking Protection as well as in decision making concerning attempting pylon kicks.

DarthMonk

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:28 pm

DarthMonk wrote:Great links!

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage this year we are 31st at 74.29%.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... ersion-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Got Blocked Percentage this year we are 32st at a whopping 11.43%. This is worse than anyone since Tennessee in 2004.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... locked-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage (Excluding Blocks) we are 20th at 83.87% (26-31). Two of these misses are from over 50 (3 of 5). If Gano makes one more kick this year he's decimal places out of the top 10.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

I therefore say that if Gano can win the job again in camp we can look forward to him being an improving top 10 kicker with an above average leg.

BTW - we are also #2 in Kickoff in spite of the OOB kicks which were clearly called by Smith and often dribbled out around the 5 yard line. Just stop calling for 'em coach. Actually, maybe our gripe should go higher up. Maybe Shanny needs to see that Special Teams coaching is lacking on Place Kicking Protection as well as in decision making concerning attempting pylon kicks.

DarthMonk

Referencing your 2004 Tennessee Titans blocked FGs - Their Kicker, Gary Anderson had a 77.3% FG pct. Gary's career is 80.06%. (currently ranks 31st all time).

Gano - career 72.97% (currently ranks 72 all time) Only two active players rank below Gano in career pct - Nick Novak (72.13%)- former Redskin and Dave Rayner (72.62%) - rightfully so, Gano beat him out.

Check out Gary's career - he had 4 - 3 block FG seasons.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/l ... career.htm

I will let other folks interpret these stats - It was fun just looking them up and learning new stuff.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:56 pm

I'm glad that Mike & Bruce will select a kicker based on what they think he will do and NOT on what he has done

we need the kicker that gives us the best chance at making field goals NOT the kicker that has the best FG stats

I'm hoping that Gano is kicking here next season - the ONLY way that happens is that he shows he is the best option :lol:

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:05 pm

DarthMonk wrote:Great links!

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage this year we are 31st at 74.29%.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... ersion-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Got Blocked Percentage this year we are 32st at a whopping 11.43%. This is worse than anyone since Tennessee in 2004.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... locked-pct

In NFL Team Field Goal Conversion Percentage (Excluding Blocks) we are 20th at 83.87% (26-31). Two of these misses are from over 50 (3 of 5). If Gano makes one more kick this year he's decimal places out of the top 10.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/fi ... -of-blocks

I therefore say that if Gano can win the job again in camp we can look forward to him being an improving top 10 kicker with an above average leg.

BTW - we are also #2 in Kickoff in spite of the OOB kicks which were clearly called by Smith and often dribbled out around the 5 yard line. Just stop calling for 'em coach. Actually, maybe our gripe should go higher up. Maybe Shanny needs to see that Special Teams coaching is lacking on Place Kicking Protection as well as in decision making concerning attempting pylon kicks.

DarthMonk

So basically what you're saying is IF we don't get any blocked, and Gano makes another 50 yarder, THEN we will be okay. Gotcha.

Care to share the stats from 2010? Where he kicked 66%? I'll be ready for the excuses for those too. Red One makes good points. Ignore stats all you want, but they tell the story for a Kicker. It's like shooting Free Throws. You wouldn't send Shaq to the line to shoot a Technical--especially with the game on the line. :shock:

I want more than anybody to have a kicker that is reliable. We haven't had one since Chip Lohmiller. But, some of you have short memories. When Chip went up to kick, the collective feeling was that this guy is money. When Gano goes up to kick, I feel like "oh $h** here we go." Put simply, we are HOPING that he has ideal conditions i.e. (perfect snap, perfect hold, no tall linemen jumping in the right spot, no wind) blah blah.

If he beats someone out in practice, I still won't have confidence in him,, he reportedly always kicks good in PRACTICE. To his credit, I don't think his problem is ability. He has performance under pressure issues. Anxiety, nerves, whatever you want to call it. Because of that, because of his performance in games, I'm not persuaded in the least bit that he'll be markedly better. That's just me. I think people underestimate the value of kickers.

We had 3 games decided by 3 points or less this year, and 2 of those were against the Cowboys. Until we are a team that can beat people consistently with both offense and defense, we will be in close games. 3 more wins this year would have us sitting alone in 1st place, headed to the PLAYOFFS. Remember those?? The PLAYOFFS?? I don't trust Graham GaNot like you all do. Bottom line.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:47 pm

The Hogster wrote:So basically what you're saying is IF we don't get any blocked, and Gano makes another 50 yarder, THEN we will be okay. Gotcha.

No, I think what he's saying is this. Right now Gano is an outlier in a statistic that is not consistent from year to year — blocks. So it is reasonable to suggest that he will regress toward the mean in future seasons. And when that statistical extreme is adjusted for in the present season, to take stock of whatever improvements he has made, his field goal numbers look average — and potentially within the reach of respectable. Since he's showing progression as a player, so this argument goes, it'd be a good idea to give him the opportunity to make it happen.

IOW, DarthMonk is providing some more hard numbers to back up a point that has already been made, and I would argue ignored, in this thread.

I don't say this because I suspect you'll suddenly change your mind, but you do express some confusion on this point, so it is worth clarifying IMO.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:08 pm

The Hogster wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Gano is 26 of 35 while kickers that played against the Skins are 30 of 36. If you look strictly at the numbers without assigning any value to then it looks like Gano is a much w worse kicker.
Let look at those nine misses. One was a fumbled snap that Gsno still tried to kick even though he was stopped and the ball was almost laying flat on the ground. Four of the nine were blocked. Lets say Gano kicked one of those low and he is to blame for the block, that still leaves three plus the botched snap for four of the nine. One of the 26 that he made was partially blocked, but he still made that kick (last week).

So the field goal unit is responsible for the nine misses. Four or give should be blamed on the party of the FG unit not named Gano and four or five should be blamed on Gano. I'll blame him for five.

So opposing kickers have made 30 of 36 or 83% and Gano has made 26 of 31 (35 - the d he had no control over) which is 83%.

Another novel fact is FedEx field, in its history, has the lowest FG success rate of any NFL stadium. Some of that had to do with the fact that we have had crap kickers tyre entire time we have been playing at FedEx.

That is why I fine Gano a little slack. Realisticly, he is kicking at the NFL average this year. Yes, I know Hogster he has made only 26 of 35 in your mind and no mitigating factors will change the fact that when you go to NFL.com he is last on the list. I just tend to look at the whole picture not one stat line on some web site.

A lot of excuses. What's the excuse for his putrid 66% rate from last year? I'm sure we can dig up film and blame someone else. And, who cares if it's tough to kick in FedEx? As long as this is our stadium, we will need a kicker who can kick here. As of right now, Suisham and Novak were better.

What's the excuse for his road misses? 2 in Dallas which is an indoor stadium It was the wind in Miami though. Excuse, after excuse, after excuse. When does reality set in. Even Shanahan said he needs to get better or he's gone. Stop it with this loser mentality. Our guys are good it's okay . No, it's really not.

I wasn't taking about last year! I was about this year only. I've never said he was a good kicker, but he has improved this year.

If you can't get that a kicker can't control a lineman getting his but whipped and the resulting blocked kick not being on the kicker then there is no hope for you.

I'm not trying to make you think he is a good kicker, because even I don't think he is. What I was trying to make you see is half of the team's missed FGs were not his fault and are on other parts of the FG unit. Not making excuses for Gano, just placing the blame where it rightly belongs.

Just like a sack is not always the fault of the OL, or an INT is not always on the QB, or an incomplete pass is not always on the receiver. Apparently you don't believe in the team aspect of football, but that is OK.