Graham Ga-No Good

[Irn-Bru]

It looks like there are very few people who think we should cut Gano either now or the second the season is over. Most seem to think that he deserves at least a shot at a roster spot in next year's training camp. Here's my argument for why we should give him at least that much. I'll mostly stick to the numbers, since I've already written earlier in this thread why I like Gano more generally. The main reason is that Gano is a huge asset on kickoffs: with Gano, we have the #1 kickoff game in the league. We are the only team that averages less than 20 yards per kickoff return, and there have been numerous instances where the opposition has been pinned inside its own 10 yard line. In effect, our kickoff game is almost as effective as a decent punt game.

I point out these kickoff stats once more because I think they mitigate the problems he's had with FGs. But another reason to think the FGs aren't as bad as the raw stats indicate is that there are as many as 5 "missed" kicks that were not Gano's fault:

- Skinsfan#33 points out earlier in this thread that one was a bad hold, which regardless of whether Gano should still have made an attempt is not a dock on his accuracy as a kicker. To me this one is a no-brainer.

- Gano's had a league-high 4 blocks. I don't remember every single one, but I do remember one game in particular where there were two blocks while Williams was out with an injury. The coaches were clear after the game that the blocks were not Gano's problem but a problem with blocking.

If we say the other blocks were at least partially attributable to Gano and should count against his overall accuracy, we still end up with this adjusted rate: Gano is 23 for 29, or 79.3% on the season.

Where would that put him? At #26 in the league in FG percentage. Yes, I know, not impressive. But let's think about this before saying he still needs to be cut today or in 4 weeks. Let's say you are the coaches, and you need to make this decision. In Gano, you have:

- A kicker whose leg help makes you the #1 team in kick coverage, including pinning teams inside the 10, and who can blast out a touchback virtually on demand;

- A young kicker with upside (as I argued earlier in this thread); and

- Although he's only 79% on his field goals this year, that's an improvement over 68% last year.

Something to think about. Try to see my argument here and then ask yourself: do I still really want to see this guy gone today or in a few weeks?

At the very least, I think Gano deserves a shot at a roster spot next summer.

[Red_One43]

It looks like there are very few people who think we should cut Gano either now or the second the season is over. Most seem to think that he deserves at least a shot at a roster spot in next year's training camp. Here's my argument for why we should give him at least that much. I'll mostly stick to the numbers, since I've already written earlier in this thread why I like Gano. The main reason is that Gano is a huge asset on kickoffs: with Gano, we have the #1 kickoff game in the league. We are the only team that averages less than 20 yards per kickoff return, and there have been numerous instances where the opposition has been pinned inside its own 10 yard line. In effect, our kickoff game is almost as effective as a decent punt game.

I point out these kickoff stats once more because I think they mitigate the problems he's had with FGs. But another reason to think the FGs aren't as bad as the raw stats indicate is that there are as many as 5 "missed" kicks that were not Gano's fault:

- Skinsfan#33 points out earlier in this thread that one was a bad hold, which regardless of whether Gano should still have made an attempt is not a dock on his accuracy as a kicker. To me this one is a no-brainer.

- Gano's had a league-high 4 blocks. I don't remember every single one, but I do remember one game in particular where there were two blocks while Williams was out with an injury. The coaches were clear after the game that the blocks were not Gano's problem but a problem with blocking.

If we say the other blocks were at least partially attributable to Gano and should count against his overall accuracy, we still end up with this adjusted rate: Gano is 23 for 29, or 79.3% on the season.

Where would that put him? At #26 in the league in FG percentage. Yes, I know, not impressive. But let's think about this before saying he still needs to be cut today or in 4 weeks. Let's say you are the coaches, and you need to make this decision. In Gano, you have:

- A kicker whose leg help makes you the #1 team in kick coverage, including pinning teams inside the 10, and who can blast out a touchback virtually on demand;

- A young kicker with upside (as I argued earlier in this thread); and

- Although he's only 79% on his field goals this year, that's an improvement over 68% last year.

Something to think about. Try to see my argument here and then ask yourself: do I still really want to see this guy gone today or in a few weeks?

At the very least, I think Gano deserves a shot at a roster spot next summer.

We'll thought out and well written. +1

[SkinsJock]

Thanks FFA - I really think that Gano will be on the roster, come opening day 2012

I love it when certain posters get all twisted up ... and then ... the guy they 'hate' makes the roster -

I don't know much about this game ... but I do know a lot more than some here

[StorminMormon86]

Thanks FFA - I really think that Gano will be on the roster, come opening day 2012

I love it when certain posters get all twisted up ... and then ... the guy they 'hate' makes the roster -

I'd love to see the looks on everyone's faces when Beck is here next year.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Gano beat a Kicker w like a 90% completion ratio this preseason

[DarthMonk]

Clutch post:

It looks like there are very few people who think we should cut Gano either now or the second the season is over. Most seem to think that he deserves at least a shot at a roster spot in next year's training camp. Here's my argument for why we should give him at least that much. I'll mostly stick to the numbers, since I've already written earlier in this thread why I like Gano more generally. The main reason is that Gano is a huge asset on kickoffs: with Gano, we have the #1 kickoff game in the league. We are the only team that averages less than 20 yards per kickoff return, and there have been numerous instances where the opposition has been pinned inside its own 10 yard line. In effect, our kickoff game is almost as effective as a decent punt game.

I point out these kickoff stats once more because I think they mitigate the problems he's had with FGs. But another reason to think the FGs aren't as bad as the raw stats indicate is that there are as many as 5 "missed" kicks that were not Gano's fault:

- Skinsfan#33 points out earlier in this thread that one was a bad hold, which regardless of whether Gano should still have made an attempt is not a dock on his accuracy as a kicker. To me this one is a no-brainer.

- Gano's had a league-high 4 blocks. I don't remember every single one, but I do remember one game in particular where there were two blocks while Williams was out with an injury. The coaches were clear after the game that the blocks were not Gano's problem but a problem with blocking.

If we say the other blocks were at least partially attributable to Gano and should count against his overall accuracy, we still end up with this adjusted rate: Gano is 23 for 29, or 79.3% on the season.

Where would that put him? At #26 in the league in FG percentage. Yes, I know, not impressive. But let's think about this before saying he still needs to be cut today or in 4 weeks. Let's say you are the coaches, and you need to make this decision. In Gano, you have:

- A kicker whose leg help makes you the #1 team in kick coverage, including pinning teams inside the 10, and who can blast out a touchback virtually on demand;

- A young kicker with upside (as I argued earlier in this thread); and

- Although he's only 79% on his field goals this year, that's an improvement over 68% last year.

Something to think about. Try to see my argument here and then ask yourself: do I still really want to see this guy gone today or in a few weeks?

At the very least, I think Gano deserves a shot at a roster spot next summer.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Plus the longest skins fg ever

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

What about Shaun Missem? missing extra points? Smh

[Red_One43]

Gano beat a Kicker w like a 90% completion ratio this preseason

It was 100%. He was 10/10 but had no kicks btween 50-59.
He also made 8/8 extra points.

[Red_One43]

Thanks FFA - I really think that Gano will be on the roster, come opening day 2012

I love it when certain posters get all twisted up ... and then ... the guy they 'hate' makes the roster -

I'd love to see the looks on everyone's faces when Beck is here next year.

You won't see any surprised looks on my face. Beck is a third teamer who is under contract with nothing to gain by cutting him. What matters to Shanny is how he is practicing and is he showing improvement.

Grossman might try to get cute with contract negotiations - Beck is insurance that Grossman won't.

[skinsfan#33]

Thanks FFA - I really think that Gano will be on the roster, come opening day 2012

I love it when certain posters get all twisted up ... and then ... the guy they 'hate' makes the roster -

I'd love to see the looks on everyone's faces when Beck is here next year.

You won't see any surprised looks on my face. Beck is a third teamer who is under contract with nothing to gain by cutting him. What matters to Shanny is how he is practicing and is he showing improvement.

Grossman might try to get cute with contract negotiations - Beck is insurance that Grossman won't.

Yeah, it is funny how many people, including people in the media, think we should cut ties with both Rex and Beck after the season.

Personally, I thinks the chances that both are at least in camp next season are three or four times better than neither of them being on camp.

Gano will be in camp.

[skinsfan#33]

Thanks FFA - I really think that Gano will be on the roster, come opening day 2012

I love it when certain posters get all twisted up ... and then ... the guy they 'hate' makes the roster -

I'd love to see the looks on everyone's faces when Beck is here next year.

You won't see any surprised looks on my face. Beck is a third teamer who is under contract with nothing to gain by cutting him. What matters to Shanny is how he is practicing and is he showing improvement.

Grossman might try to get cute with contract negotiations - Beck is insurance that Grossman won't.

Yeah, it is funny how many people, including people in the media, think we should cut ties with both Rex and Beck after the season.

Personally, I thinks the chances that both are at least in camp next season are three or four times better than neither of them being on camp.

Gano will be in camp.

[The Hogster]

This fanbase has become accustomed to mediocrity and that is sad.

Graham Gano has been awful for 2 years running yet some people bend over backwards to defend what amounts to a below average player who produces next to nothing when it matters most.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... _blog.html

Per Mike Shanahan:

“Like everybody, you have to perform and you hope he performs at a very high level,” the coach said. “He gets the opportunities, you want him to convert, and if you don’t take advantage of those opportunities, you don’t kick in the National Football League. We all know that. It’s a high-pressure job and you’re always hoping a guy comes through, and if you don’t come through, you lose your job, just like any other position.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... _blog.html

Here in D.C. we hear the same thing about Gano week in and week out. He practices well, but chokes in games. Shanahan consistently confirms as much on his radio show and in interviews. For me, I think that he's got one foot out of the league, and Shanahan apparently agrees. Some here don't I guess. **shrugs**

[Irn-Bru]

This fanbase has become accustomed to mediocrity and that is sad.

Graham Gano has been awful for 2 years running yet some people bend over backwards to defend what amounts to a below average player who produces next to nothing when it matters most.

No bending over backwards here. Did you read my post? I think what I've said is very reasonable.

Here in D.C. we hear the same thing about Gano week in and week out. He practices well, but chokes in games. Shanahan consistently confirms as much on his radio show and in interviews. For me, I think that he's got one foot out of the league, and Shanahan apparently agrees. Some here don't I guess. **shrugs**

One foot is not the same as two feet. I agree that Gano should not be our "default" choice going into next year. What I can't figure out is why people think he shouldn't even be here tomorrow. (And since you're now appealing to Shanny instead of trashing his moves: notice that he definitely doesn't agree with cutting Gano right away.)

[The Hogster]

This fanbase has become accustomed to mediocrity and that is sad.

Graham Gano has been awful for 2 years running yet some people bend over backwards to defend what amounts to a below average player who produces next to nothing when it matters most.

No bending over backwards here. Did you read my post? I think what I've said is very reasonable.

Here in D.C. we hear the same thing about Gano week in and week out. He practices well, but chokes in games. Shanahan consistently confirms as much on his radio show and in interviews. For me, I think that he's got one foot out of the league, and Shanahan apparently agrees. Some here don't I guess. **shrugs**

One foot is not the same as two feet. I agree that Gano should not be our "default" choice going into next year. What I can't figure out is why people think he shouldn't even be here tomorrow. (And since you're now appealing to Shanny instead of trashing his moves: notice that he definitely doesn't agree with cutting Gano right away.)

What you are saying is reasonable, but some here want to take out his blocked kicks, excuse his shanks out of bounds on kickoffs, and basically blame all of his failures on someone else. I have simply grown tired of watching the ShawShank Redemption starring Gano every week. I prefer sending the clear message that dead last isn't acceptable at any position.

[KazooSkinsFan]

This fanbase has become accustomed to mediocrity and that is sad.

Graham Gano has been awful for 2 years running yet some people bend over backwards to defend what amounts to a below average player who produces next to nothing when it matters most.

No bending over backwards here. Did you read my post? I think what I've said is very reasonable

I agree it's reasonable. However, the thing that gets me is how horrible he is in the clutch. I think your argument could overcome mediocre kicking, but there is something wrong between his ears and I don't see how that's going to change.

[The Hogster]

This fanbase has become accustomed to mediocrity and that is sad.

Graham Gano has been awful for 2 years running yet some people bend over backwards to defend what amounts to a below average player who produces next to nothing when it matters most.

No bending over backwards here. Did you read my post? I think what I've said is very reasonable

I agree it's reasonable. However, the thing that gets me is how horrible he is in the clutch. I think your argument could overcome mediocre kicking, but there is something wrong between his ears and I don't see how that's going to change.

+1

He must be pretty bad if Kazoo and I agree.

[SkinsJock]

Gano will have some competition for his job - he will benefit from that and be back here next year

we cannot lose - if a kicker can come in here and show that he's a better kicker so much the better

[CanesSkins26]

It looks like there are very few people who think we should cut Gano either now or the second the season is over. Most seem to think that he deserves at least a shot at a roster spot in next year's training camp. Here's my argument for why we should give him at least that much. I'll mostly stick to the numbers, since I've already written earlier in this thread why I like Gano more generally. The main reason is that Gano is a huge asset on kickoffs: with Gano, we have the #1 kickoff game in the league. We are the only team that averages less than 20 yards per kickoff return, and there have been numerous instances where the opposition has been pinned inside its own 10 yard line. In effect, our kickoff game is almost as effective as a decent punt game.

I point out these kickoff stats once more because I think they mitigate the problems he's had with FGs. But another reason to think the FGs aren't as bad as the raw stats indicate is that there are as many as 5 "missed" kicks that were not Gano's fault:

- Skinsfan#33 points out earlier in this thread that one was a bad hold, which regardless of whether Gano should still have made an attempt is not a dock on his accuracy as a kicker. To me this one is a no-brainer.

- Gano's had a league-high 4 blocks. I don't remember every single one, but I do remember one game in particular where there were two blocks while Williams was out with an injury. The coaches were clear after the game that the blocks were not Gano's problem but a problem with blocking.

If we say the other blocks were at least partially attributable to Gano and should count against his overall accuracy, we still end up with this adjusted rate: Gano is 23 for 29, or 79.3% on the season.

Where would that put him? At #26 in the league in FG percentage. Yes, I know, not impressive. But let's think about this before saying he still needs to be cut today or in 4 weeks. Let's say you are the coaches, and you need to make this decision. In Gano, you have:

- A kicker whose leg help makes you the #1 team in kick coverage, including pinning teams inside the 10, and who can blast out a touchback virtually on demand;

- A young kicker with upside (as I argued earlier in this thread); and

- Although he's only 79% on his field goals this year, that's an improvement over 68% last year.

Something to think about. Try to see my argument here and then ask yourself: do I still really want to see this guy gone today or in a few weeks?

At the very least, I think Gano deserves a shot at a roster spot next summer.

I think that you're completely overstating the impact of Gano on the kickoff game. Right now we are 3rd in the NFL in average opponent starting field position. On paper that sounds great; however, the difference between us in 3rd place and the Bears, for example, who are in 18th place, is 3 yards. 23 NFL teams hold opponents to starting inside the 25 yard line, so Gano is not so good at that that it comes anywhere close to negating his habit of throwing up on himself kicking field goals.

And if you look at Gano's rate of touch backs, it doesn't stand out among other NFL kickers. Gano has 31 touch backs on 60 kickoffs, for an average of 51 percent. By comparison, New Orleans has a 62 % rate, Carolina 68 %, Ravens 60 %, San Fran 56 %, Jacksonville 65 %, Tampa Bay 54 %, KC 56 %, etc. I don't have time to go through each NFL team, but Gano's touchback rate seems to be middle of the pack in the NFL.

[welch]

I want an OL, a DL, a QB, and a CB. Get those, and then ask what I think of Gano.

[SkinsJock]

I want an OL, a DL, a QB, and a CB. Get those, and then ask what I think of Gano.

ain't it the truth - Gano is possibly the least of our worries - he's going to get a chance to win his job back this off season

2 guys that I hope are here next year are Gano and Hall - they care and they will work hard to be here

[Irn-Bru]

I think that you're completely overstating the impact of Gano on the kickoff game. Right now we are 3rd in the NFL in average opponent starting field position. On paper that sounds great; however, the difference between us in 3rd place and the Bears, for example, who are in 18th place, is 3 yards. 23 NFL teams hold opponents to starting inside the 25 yard line, so Gano is not so good at that that it comes anywhere close to negating his habit of throwing up on himself kicking field goals.

If you want to make that kind of qualification, then it should also be said that calling Gano "dead last" in FGs isn't as forceful as you might like it to be. After yesterday's game, he's now at 74%, which essentially puts him in the bottom third of the league's kickers statistically, not straggling way behind them.

And if you remove the kicks I suggested removing in my post above, he actually ends up as a top-20 kicker with 81% of his kicks made . . . again, I understand that's not blowing anyone out of the water, but perhaps it can also be admitted that the adjectives being attached to him in this thread are overblown.

[The Hogster]

I think that you're completely overstating the impact of Gano on the kickoff game. Right now we are 3rd in the NFL in average opponent starting field position. On paper that sounds great; however, the difference between us in 3rd place and the Bears, for example, who are in 18th place, is 3 yards. 23 NFL teams hold opponents to starting inside the 25 yard line, so Gano is not so good at that that it comes anywhere close to negating his habit of throwing up on himself kicking field goals.

If you want to make that kind of qualification, then it should also be said that calling Gano "dead last" in FGs isn't as forceful as you might like it to be. After yesterday's game, he's now at 74%, which essentially puts him in the bottom third of the league's kickers statistically, not straggling way behind them.

And if you remove the kicks I suggested removing in my post above, he actually ends up as a top-20 kicker with 81% of his kicks made . . . again, I understand that's not blowing anyone out of the water, but perhaps it can also be admitted that the adjectives being attached to him in this thread are overblown.

Even giving you the benefit of the doubt here, Top 20 out of 32 is fancy way of saying bottom 12.

[Irn-Bru]

Sure. Notice how I'm always pointing out that I'm not saying Gano is passable on FGs. I'm just trying to push back against the idea that we have to cut him, either today or in a few weeks. At the very least the man has earned his ticket to another training camp.

[CanesSkins26]

I think that you're completely overstating the impact of Gano on the kickoff game. Right now we are 3rd in the NFL in average opponent starting field position. On paper that sounds great; however, the difference between us in 3rd place and the Bears, for example, who are in 18th place, is 3 yards. 23 NFL teams hold opponents to starting inside the 25 yard line, so Gano is not so good at that that it comes anywhere close to negating his habit of throwing up on himself kicking field goals.

If you want to make that kind of qualification, then it should also be said that calling Gano "dead last" in FGs isn't as forceful as you might like it to be. After yesterday's game, he's now at 74%, which essentially puts him in the bottom third of the league's kickers statistically, not straggling way behind them.

And if you remove the kicks I suggested removing in my post above, he actually ends up as a top-20 kicker with 81% of his kicks made . . . again, I understand that's not blowing anyone out of the water, but perhaps it can also be admitted that the adjectives being attached to him in this thread are overblown.

Other kickers have field goals blocked and snaps botched also, though. In addition, for some of the blocks the blame is on Gano and not the line. This is from after the Bills game...

After starting the season on shaky footing, second-year placekicker Graham Gano seemed to put those struggles behind him and entered Sunday’s game having gone three straight games without a miss.

The good fortune ran out against the Bills, however, when Gano had a 49-yard attempt blocked during the first half of Washington’s 23-0 defeat.

Long-snapper Nick Sundberg said after the game that he believed the Bills had blocked the kick because they lined up in an unusual formation that left someone unaccounted for. But after reviewing the game film, Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said missed blocking assignments weren’t to blame. Gano’s kick simply was too low.

“It was more of a low kick than anything,” Shanahan said. “Their defensive line, there wasn’t a guy that was scot-free. I would say normally that ball is much higher in field goals [and] extra points. Usually a guy in that position doesn’t block a field goal. The kick was a little bit lower than normal.”

It marked the third time in 15 attempts that Gano had a field goal blocked. He has missed two other field goal attempts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/shanahan-graham-ganos-field-goal-kick-as-too-low/2011/10/31/gIQATRR0aM_blog.html

I just don't understand supporting a player that has been one of the worst at his job for two straight years, just because he is decent on kickoffs.