Tomahawk Missiles in Subs? and I met a WWII vet!

[langleyparkjoe]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599200237800

The article is kind of lengthy but the reading is good. The naval wargames seems to be awesome as well. I know it costs plenty of money to re-fit those subs but I'm A-OK with my money going towards it.
___________________________________________________________

On another note I met a WWII vet yesterday at the IHOP while dining with my mother/grandmother/daughter. When he got up to leave I stopped him and shook his hand and told him thanks for being there. I couldn't care less if he was just there holding a bucket of water, I was extremely grateful and VERY proud. He had on a hat that said he was a WWII vet and his tags read "WWIIVET" so its not like he was hiding anything. LOL.. My daughter who's 7 asked me did I know him. I said no baby, I have absolutely no idea who that man was. She said well daddy why did you stop him to shake his hand. I said baby, what that man did and so many others helped make America what it is today.

Folks, I was so happy just to shake this man's hand. I found out that he was in the Navy (back of hat referenced it) too so that's why I put it in this thread. RIP to those who didn't make it back and GOD BLESS THE BEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!

[Countertrey]

LPJ... I suspect you made his day. Thank YOU for that. These guys are quickly fading away (to borrow from MacAurthur)... Some wonderful men, and women... they are... and were... a treasure.

[Redskin in Canada]

The article is kind of lengthy but the reading is good. The naval wargames seems to be awesome as well. I know it costs plenty of money to re-fit those subs but I'm A-OK with my money going towards it.

This is one of the most important naval weapons developments in recent years. Most people did know nothing about this. I am surprised you caught on!

These changes do not take place overnight. Refitting a submarine takes time but the results are amazing. The US Navy is adapting to new warfare conditions in quick-response regional scenarios demanded after the cold war.

If only the land armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan had received the benefit of analogous progress, there would have been fewer casualties. There is an urgent need for an efficient, reliable and rugged STOL/ESTOL delivery of cargo and troops.

Something like ...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ry/4245924

Anything that makes road IEDs useless will be great.

[langleyparkjoe]

The article is kind of lengthy but the reading is good. The naval wargames seems to be awesome as well. I know it costs plenty of money to re-fit those subs but I'm A-OK with my money going towards it.

This is one of the most important naval weapons developments in recent years. Most people did know nothing about this. I am surprised you caught on!

These changes do not take place overnight. Refitting a submarine takes time but the results are amazing. The US Navy is adapting to new warfare conditions in quick-response regional scenarios demanded after the cold war.

If only the land armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan had received the benefit of analogous progress, there would have been fewer casualties. There is an urgent need for an efficient, reliable and rugged STOL/ESTOL delivery of cargo and troops.

Something like ...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ry/4245924

Anything that makes road IEDs useless will be great.

What you mean your surprised??? Bro I stay on top of the armed forces stuff!!! I may not know all the jargon like some of ya'll but believe I try to stay informed.. plus I'm a sucker for our armed forces folks man, I have plenty of cousins in there and I've seen first hand the crap they go through (kinda).. or better yet I've seen the results.

God Bless America!

[Countertrey]

If only the land armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan had received the benefit of analogous progress, there would have been fewer casualties.

Well, the Navy did have the advantage of having this incredible platform with a disappearing mission. It was really a no-brainer, and I was both pleased and surprised when I heard of this several years ago.

There was no extant equivalent resource that was availible to the Army or Marines.

[Bob 0119]

The owner of my company is a retired sub Captain.

He said this event was a "poke with a stick" mission. He said it happens all the time and they do it to see "what the response will be."

He told me a few funny stories (like when they he was prevented from entering San Diego naval base because it was "abandoned" for 24 hours and he had to wait for a russian satelite to pass over) and said he'd been to each of the ports listed.

He said this kind of thing is routine and is more about intelligence gathering than a threat of real force (watch and listen to what is being done and said in response to having three subs surface close by), but pointed out that boats with tomahawks would be of more concern to the Chinese because they know we won't use nuclear weapons but not a real threat as they also know we won't simply start lobbing tomahawks in there unprovoked.

[langleyparkjoe]

Must be a hell of a thing to see a submarine come up in person. TV I'm sure just doesn't have the same affect.

[Bob 0119]

Must be a hell of a thing to see a submarine come up in person. TV I'm sure just doesn't have the same affect.

The things you usually see on TV where the boat comes flying up out of the water are "emergency blow outs." They don't usually surface that way unless they are testing or showing off for visitors.

Still, seeing something that big come out of nowhere, even slowly, is probably pretty impressive!

[Redskin in Canada]

What you mean your surprised???

Hey, you know that no disrespect whatsoever was intended. My point was that you do not wake up any morning waiting to see these kind of news in any NFL team board.

From now on, I am talking about the -average- Joe, not about langleyparkjoe.

[Countertrey]

Bob is right. Whenever one of our subs is "SEEN" it is to make a point or test a reaction. When THREE are "SEEN", it's probably a pretty big point... and definitely not a coincidence. Our submarines are operationally most effective when no one knows where they are... Becoming visible is almost always done for a political reason... It's the President's big stick...

There are many things about our military that are far more impressive live and in person than on TV...

including the dedication and determination of those who wear the uniforms of our US military, and Canadian Forces (I was privileged to spend a few training cycles with Canadian soldiers). They have left me in awe many times... ya'll have no idea how good they are.

I fear how this endless cycle of interminable combat and self-sacrificing rules of engagement is wearing on them.

[Redskin in Canada]

There was no extant equivalent resource that was availible to the Army or Marines.

Some of us still remember that MOST of the transport and rescue of American troops in Vietnam took place by air.

Most armies simply neglected to maintain up-to-date efficient and courageous helicopter transport forces. I have had the privilege to meet vets who served as pilots in rescue missions. I wioll not begin to tell you some ofthesories ... amazing and heroic.

[Redskin in Canada]

I fear how this endless cycle of interminable combat and self-sacrificing rules of engagement is wearing on them.

You are not alone.

My worst fear is the effect of the internal corruption of the governments in Iraq and Afghanistan. If anybody wanted my opinion, that is where the bulk of the "battle" must take place.

Good national governments = lasting victory

Corrupt national governments = return of the taliban

[Countertrey]

I fear how this endless cycle of interminable combat and self-sacrificing rules of engagement is wearing on them.

You are not alone.

My worst fear is the effect of the internal corruption of the governments in Iraq and Afghanistan. If anybody wanted my opinion, that is where the bulk of the "battle" must take place.

Good national governments = lasting victory

Corrupt national governments = return of the taliban

Absolutely agree... finding a credible, respected leader for Afghanistan became a problem with the murder of Ahmad Shah Masood in September of 2001... I knew then that this was not going to bode well for the effort to dislodge the Taliban...

[Redskin in Canada]

If I was a rogue demagogue, I would be really worried about these silent babies.

It will be fun to see how these signals play out soon ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10657550

[Countertrey]

As long as there are idiots in Washington who are willing to talk to the buffoons in Pyongyang, they will continue to play their games. There should NEVER be consideration given to offering a carrot to these international parasites and murderers.

[Redskin in Canada]

As long as there are idiots in Washington who are willing to talk to the buffoons in Pyongyang, they will continue to play their games. There should NEVER be consideration given to offering a carrot to these international parasites and murderers.

There was a time when I would have been in agreement. This time, there are elements that make it necessary to use the full range of options available. I cannot tell you much but I assure you that, normally, I would have been on your side. Not now. It is useful and necessary to talk. The reasons -may- become apparent a year or so from now.

[Bob 0119]

My understanding from the Captain was this was more a "strategic military/intelligence gathering exercise" than a political sabre-rattle.

The goal was to see what China and maybe it's neighbors would do when surprised. Would they gear up for counter-attack or prepare to defend? What channels would they use to communicate? What military units would go on alert, where would they go? That kind of stuff.

He said it happens all the time, and each country has their little way of playing the game. You do something unexpected and see who reacts and how.

[Countertrey]

It doesn't matter the reason, so much, Bob. The point is, with the current state of foreign (Chinese/NK/Russia) military capabilities, US Subs are not seen unless they WANT to be seen.

And, RiC... I may not know your rationale, but the NK's cannot have a deliverable nuke, nor a capable vehicle. I cannot fathom, outside of credible nuke threat, what could possibly cause us to do anything other than to make them a complete burden for the Chinese, which, BTW, should have been our objective through the last 4 administrations... Unfortunately, I have little faith in this current administration's ability to manage this, unless their plan is to apologize the NK's into submission.

[Bob 0119]

Certainly right about that, 'Trey. Cap was the CO of a "fast attack" sub and his job was mostly about following Russian subs wherever they went.

I asked him if Russia ever pulled stunts like that on us; his reply was that we'd know what they were up to before they ever surfaced.

The problem I see with a NK nuke is not the direct threat it would pose to us (even if you have an ICBM they are still a little tricky to use) it's the threat they pose to the people we like.

However, with this administration it's hard to tell who that is anymore...

[langleyparkjoe]

Holy crap!!!! I know our Pentagon officials are currently trying to find something to handle this.. I hope they do it within the next couple of years because this could end our sea dominance for sure... a missle that go 900 miles and sink our best weapon...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100805/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_carrier_killer

[Deadskins]

Seems to me that missle defense systems would work well in this particular situation.

[langleyparkjoe]

Seems to me that missle defense systems would work well in this particular situation.

Man that thing looks crazy! Those Pacific seas are where our boys need to be too with the uncertainty of N. Korea and the Chinese

[welch]

My dad and uncles were WW2 vets. They never talked about the ugly things...just goofy in-between danger shenanigans.

My late Uncle Jimmy was in the 29th Divsion, Maryland National Guard. They were the lead assault troops at Omaha beach. I never understood what Omaha Beach was like until I saw the opening scenes of "Saving Private Ryan." Uncle Jimmy drank a lot -- odd for a Methodist -- and never talked about the war. He was a pretty cranky guy. He refused to see "Pvt Ryan", saying only, "I saw it the first time. Don't need to see it again".

That's not so unusual. I know a guy who was 101st Airborne, jumping into Normandy and sticking it through until the war ended. He was curious about "Band of Brothers", but wouldn't watch it. I had know him for 15 years before I learned that he had won a purple heart during the Battle of the Bulge.

That seems typical. My Dad talks about having the duty at Norfolk NAS on December 7th, but only once did he describe going on crash patrol to gather body parts from the crew of a dive-bomber that didn't pull out of it dive. It was bombing practice around November, 1941, during "peace-time". No enemy action...the pilot and tail-gunner were killed probably because the pilot blacked out during the dive. A deadly accident.