langleyparkjoe wrote:Well that's interesting and everything you said is true.. well, the black president thing happened many years ago before Obama but I totally understand what your saying. So, to sum it all up cause it was indeed on point what you said... YUP! I'm all for the American hero who does the dirt to keep me and my daughter safe. Are there super duper fine lines between what is right and wrong? Sure, absolutely.. do I really care though if bad people get tortured and shot? Nope, not really.
In the Dana case though, Jack's shooting of her to me was justified as he actually witnessed her murder people in cold blood and if I was in any situation (not like Jack himself but a common dude who saw all of that) I'd shoot her too. Hey, I may go to jail but the public will know I shot a chick that murdered police officers and innocent people so she could get away. Should she go to trial for it? Probably.. but I'd rather send her to hell. Just me though, that's just me.
*sigh*.. I'm gonna miss the show, it was awesome and yeuuuup, I'm brainwashed.. heck I don't even call it "24", I call it "JACK"!
That's funny. I can't get enough of the show and wish it were 2 hour episodes ... 24 is the fastest moving hour on TV.
The greater point I was making was that unlike Jack, 24, and CTU .. all hollywood creations ... the real counterterrorist organizations aren't always so "benevolent" in their intentions or agendas ... and this "conditioning" to view torture as a reasonable means for government to engage in is a seriously dangerous mindset to fall into ... as the government's "enemy list" often include many more individuals than just those clearly cold blooded terrorists depicted on 24, if you get my drift.
That's the primary reason why such methods can never be allowed to become "accepted" tactics ... lest we find ourselves declared "enemy combatants" or "domestic terror suspects" simply for disagreeing with government policies or associating with others who do, with or without our knowledge.
As an example ... let's say you ... good ole Joe who has a soft spot for needy children, decide to innocently donate a sum of money for children who have lost their parents or homes in Iraq. Later, that charity is declared an organization that has offered assistance to Iraqi insurgents .. and therefore an organization that aids terrorists ... they check you out and find that your cousin is a Muslim ... and next thing you know, you've got guys in black ski masks kicking in your door ... and ... they decide that you might be withholding some valuable information about that cousin of yours whom they suspect has knowledge of a potential terrorist plot?
Don't think for a moment that this is a far fetched hypothetical ... given that it's been admitted that the majority locked up at Gitmo are innocent of any crime whatsoever .. along with the legislation already on the books which allows the president to declare ANY American a domestic terrorist who has no rights to due process, subject to indefinite detention, without formal charges or access to legal representation.
The TV version of torture always works ... yet, experts in the field suggest that information gathered by torture is useless, insofar as someone being tortured will tell you anything they believe will stop the torture.
Heck, those guys locked up at gitmo would confess to the Lincoln assassination if they are water boarded enough times.
