Bible should be a required course in school

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:33 pm

If you look at all the problems we're having in this country. We're being attacked by Islamic Terrorists who are being defended by Godless Liberals, could there be a better idea then to create a bible class in school? Think about it, it could really help this country. One thing liberals ignore is the original rise of public schools was actually driven by Christians who wanted their kids to be able to read the bible for themselves.

Now I realize the first Amendment's a hurdle, but I have a way around that. If we teach the Bible as a historical class that could be a pretty good way around it. Students could read and memorize passages and learn about Jesus's love without directly worshiping or praying to a Christian God.

Also, the Founding Fathers were actually trying to prevent State religions and they constantly referred to God in their writings and documents, they never had any intent of preventing government from having general religion. One perversion of history was that Thomas Jefferson in saying the phrase "separation of church and State" was guaranteeing government be free from religion, it was actually the reverse. He was assuring a group of ministers in Danbury, Connecticut that government would not interfere in their religion.

Anyway, teaching our kids Christian values even from a historical sense could have a great impact on this country and it would surely start to rub off. Then the kids take it home to their parents. Foreign born parents take it back to their families. We could just run around the war by the Muslims into a Christian conquest of Christian love over them.

What do you think?

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:38 pm

Not going to happen. Some people believe that the Bible is a fairy tale; not a history book. I also think you would have lawsuits faster than you can say jihad with the ACLU all over this idea like stink on poo. Why don't we just implement ethics into school curriculum and help reinforce (and I say reinforce because that is the parents' responsibility) "right" from "wrong?"

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:00 pm

You can't force your standards upon anyone else, which is what this will do. I teach my children to my moral standards, which are different than someone else's. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in most cases within the law. I was raised with the King James version of the Bible, but my wife wasn't. Who's bible is used? There are a multitude of reasons why this will never work for the general public. You want your children raised on religious morals? Send 'em to school, but be careful sending your little boys to Cathiloc school, b/c one day they might be Catholic priests.

broomboy · Post by **broomboy** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:26 pm

This is a pretty ignorant post in my opinion. Just teaching people about christian religion is not gonna change how people act, just look at how many criminals are religious. Did Jesus's love fail them? Religion will not change the majority of people and ramming your ideals into kids heads is a little beyond messed up.

People should be free to learn and choose which religion is right for them or whether it is right for them at all.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:37 pm

broomboy wrote:This is a pretty ignorant post in my opinion. Just teaching people about christian religion is not gonna change how people act, just look at how many criminals are religious. Did Jesus's love fail them? Religion will not change the majority of people and ramming your ideals into kids heads is a little beyond messed up.

People should be free to learn and choose which religion is right for them or whether it is right for them at all.

...and how's that working out???

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:55 pm

broomboy wrote:...ramming your ideals into kids heads is a little beyond messed up.

I agree. Anyway you can stop ramming liberalism down our kids throats in schools? Can we start there? Can we? I agree, that is messed up.

Ban left-wingers from our public school system!!! Ban them ALL!!!!

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:28 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
broomboy wrote:...ramming your ideals into kids heads is a little beyond messed up.

I agree. Anyway you can stop ramming liberalism down our kids throats in schools? Can we start there? Can we? I agree, that is messed up.

Ban left-wingers from our public school system!!! Ban them ALL!!!!

That sounds a bit fascist to me dude. Personal ideology is not supposed to be pushed in schools already, however, personal views tend to lend a helping hand in teaching materials. If you cannot expect those who rule on the law of the land not to be influenced with personal beliefs, how can expect teachers to draw the same line?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:01 pm

Cappster wrote:If you cannot expect those who rule on the law of the land not to be influenced with personal beliefs, how can expect teachers to draw the same line?

You missed the point. Teachers not only don't draw the same line but they don't draw ANY line. They brazenly their power as bestowed by government and our money confiscated by government to turn our schools into liberal indoctrination camps. It's pathetic. If we're going to use the power of government to cure global warming and provide healthcare to the poor because it's in all our interest, wouldn't teaching our children conservative morality and accountability as opposed to liberal atheism and dependency be in all our interest? We teach our children to let government take care of our needs and not bother with the rest because there's no point, this is it.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:47 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Cappster wrote:If you cannot expect those who rule on the law of the land not to be influenced with personal beliefs, how can expect teachers to draw the same line?

You missed the point. Teachers not only don't draw the same line but they don't draw ANY line. They brazenly their power as bestowed by government and our money confiscated by government to turn our schools into liberal indoctrination camps. It's pathetic. If we're going to use the power of government to cure global warming and provide healthcare to the poor because it's in all our interest, wouldn't teaching our children conservative morality and accountability as opposed to liberal atheism and dependency be in all our interest? We teach our children to let government take care of our needs and not bother with the rest because there's no point, this is it.

Wow, what a stretch. Is that what you think they're teaching? Pretty bold there, even for you.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:47 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Cappster wrote:If you cannot expect those who rule on the law of the land not to be influenced with personal beliefs, how can expect teachers to draw the same line?

You missed the point. Teachers not only don't draw the same line but they don't draw ANY line. They brazenly their power as bestowed by government and our money confiscated by government to turn our schools into liberal indoctrination camps. It's pathetic. If we're going to use the power of government to cure global warming and provide healthcare to the poor because it's in all our interest, wouldn't teaching our children conservative morality and accountability as opposed to liberal atheism and dependency be in all our interest? We teach our children to let government take care of our needs and not bother with the rest because there's no point, this is it.

Wow, what a stretch. Is that what you think they're teaching? Pretty bold there, even for you.

Well, OK maybe the atheism part was a bit tongue in cheek, but they are certainly consistently preaching liberal "values" (or lack thereof). I've lived in eight states and none were in exactly in strong Democratic party areas. Not the States, I mean our neighborhoods. But the pro-government dependency with no personal accountability is completely dominant in schools and if you don't see that you either don't have kids or you need to remove the blinders.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:27 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Cappster wrote:If you cannot expect those who rule on the law of the land not to be influenced with personal beliefs, how can expect teachers to draw the same line?

You missed the point. Teachers not only don't draw the same line but they don't draw ANY line. They brazenly their power as bestowed by government and our money confiscated by government to turn our schools into liberal indoctrination camps. It's pathetic. If we're going to use the power of government to cure global warming and provide healthcare to the poor because it's in all our interest, wouldn't teaching our children conservative morality and accountability as opposed to liberal atheism and dependency be in all our interest? We teach our children to let government take care of our needs and not bother with the rest because there's no point, this is it.

Wow, what a stretch. Is that what you think they're teaching? Pretty bold there, even for you.

Well, OK maybe the atheism part was a bit tongue in cheek, but they are certainly consistently preaching liberal "values" (or lack thereof). I've lived in eight states and none were in exactly in strong Democratic party areas. Not the States, I mean our neighborhoods. But the pro-government dependency with no personal accountability is completely dominant in schools and if you don't see that you either don't have kids or you need to remove the blinders.

That's something that we need to instill as parents. I don't blame the schools for that.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:15 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:That's something that we need to instill as parents. I don't blame the schools for that.

Got it. Government schools can hire teachers with all our money to ram liberalism down the throats of our own children and it's our job as parents to undo that, but when it comes to teaching morality to our children we can't force our values on others. Sure Vet, thanks for that clarification, I understand what's wrong with my argument now. :roll:

Hey Kids, Bush is the devil, he lied us into Iraq, the Democrats are just good, hard working honest people trying to undo that damage.

Vet: Hey, you don't agree parents, it's YOUR job to teach your kids your views.

Hey Kids, murder is wrong, there is too much hate, there is a better way

Vet: Hold on there, don't indoctrinate our kids with your views, that's just wrong.

I'm curious how you're going to spin you didn't say what you said.

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:21 am

I think calling schools "indoctrination camps" is extreme. You cannot watch a few youtube videos of students singing about Obama and paint all teachers with the same extreme leftist brush. That is a logical fallacy on your part Kazoo. Can you provide concrete evidence which validates the basis of your argument?

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:43 am

Is it true that most schools have done away with an "honor roll?" Something about it not being fair to the rest of the class?

Is it true that some schools have flipped the grade scale to where an A represents failing, and an F now is the passing grade?

Is it true that teachers have stopped using red pens and x's to mark wrong answers because they are afraid that the kid may think he did something "wrong?"

Is it true that schools have lowered the passing grades from 72% to in some cases as low 47% so that more kids will pass (even if they get more than half the answers wrong)?

Is it true that many tests anymore are more about remembering the correct test answers than they are about what you've learned of the subject?

Is it true that nobody has their own school supplies anymore, but all of the school supplies are collected and divided equally among the class?

If these are true, than it would seem that the main things kids are being taught is that no one is better than you, and you shouldn't try to be better than anyone else.

It would seem to be teaching the kids that "the collective" is more important than "the individual."

It would seem to be teaching students that socialism is the correct way, and that if you succeed, you do so at the expense of others.

It would seem that schools are more concerned about hurting someone's feelings than properly educating them. Knowledge is power, and power should be left to those in control.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:21 pm

Cappster wrote:I think calling schools "indoctrination camps" is extreme. You cannot watch a few youtube videos of students singing about Obama and paint all teachers with the same extreme leftist brush. That is a logical fallacy on your part Kazoo. Can you provide concrete evidence which validates the basis of your argument?

Well, my daughter who's a freshman at Duke went to K through 12, 13 years and my eighth grader is in her 9th year of school so I'm currently in my 22nd year.

There was no tongue in cheek in that statement. Our school systems pound liberal ideals into our children constantly and there is no counter view allowed. Our schools are as hard left as our media only our children are captives of them.

I hope to God your failure to recognize the political extremity of our children's educational environment is because you don't have kids, at least not school age ones, and not that you're that blind to it.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:39 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:That's something that we need to instill as parents. I don't blame the schools for that.

Got it. Government schools can hire teachers with all our money to ram liberalism down the throats of our own children and it's our job as parents to undo that, but when it comes to teaching morality to our children we can't force our values on others. Sure Vet, thanks for that clarification, I understand what's wrong with my argument now.

Hey Kids, Bush is the devil, he lied us into Iraq, the Democrats are just good, hard working honest people trying to undo that damage.

Vet: Hey, you don't agree parents, it's YOUR job to teach your kids your views.

Hey Kids, murder is wrong, there is too much hate, there is a better way

Vet: Hold on there, don't indoctrinate our kids with your views, that's just wrong.

I'm curious how you're going to spin you didn't say what you said.

First of all, I don't even know if Democrats of liberal or conservative, so the labels and 'spin' you keep throwing at me don't matter in the least. You should know that by now.

All I'm saying is that it is, in fact, the parents job to do their best to instill good moral beahvior in to their child(ren). After about age 12, they won't listen to much of what you say, anyway.

This applies to anything IMO. It's MY FREAKIN JOB to mold my children in to law abiding future citizens. I don't blame the government that my son's 1st school was only at 67% English proficiency rating. It didn't satisfy my requirements, I moved.

And it IS my job to show my children the fallacies of any situation in order for them to be smart in their decision-making. To learn to think for themselves and question what they feel needs questioning after critical consideration.

Spin THAT however you want, Mr Politico.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:06 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Our schools are as hard left as our media

Did you learn that on Fox News, too? :roll:

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:17 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Cappster wrote:I think calling schools "indoctrination camps" is extreme. You cannot watch a few youtube videos of students singing about Obama and paint all teachers with the same extreme leftist brush. That is a logical fallacy on your part Kazoo. Can you provide concrete evidence which validates the basis of your argument?

Well, my daughter who's a freshman at Duke went to K through 12, 13 years and my eighth grader is in her 9th year of school so I'm currently in my 22nd year.

There was no tongue in cheek in that statement. Our school systems pound liberal ideals into our children constantly and there is no counter view allowed. Our schools are as hard left as our media only our children are captives of them.

I hope to God your failure to recognize the political extremity of our children's educational environment is because you don't have kids, at least not school age ones, and not that you're that blind to it.

Actually, I work at a school (not a teacher) and I actually have discussed this issue with a few social studies teachers. Each of them said the same thing and that they present the material objectively. They keep their own political views out of the classroom. I cannot verify if they do exactly as they claim, but I haven't personally seen anything to refute their claim.

I will admit that College is a different story than K-12. I am in the process of achieving a BS degree and I know college professors can be leftist. In my own personal experience, I would say just about all of my professors have expressed their liberal views in one way or another...some more extreme than others. I don't think its as prevalent in K-12 as it is in college.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:24 pm

mmmm, mmmm, mmmm.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:57 pm

Deadskins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Our schools are as hard left as our media

Did you learn that on Fox News, too?

It's sad that hearing multiple sides of an issue scares you so. So don't watch Fox. It's a lot easier hearing one side of an issue as the liberal media presents so you don't get confused with having to think and stuff.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:39 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Our schools are as hard left as our media

Did you learn that on Fox News, too?

It's sad that hearing multiple sides of an issue scares you so. So don't watch Fox. It's a lot easier hearing one side of an issue as the liberal media presents so you don't get confused with having to think and stuff.

Yeah, Fox really presents multiple sides of an issue. Talk about not thinking! That you believe the conservative-owned, corporate media is liberal, still astounds me. If the sensationalist infotainment put on by so-called news organizations comes across as liberal to you, then they are achieving their objective. That you can't see past the obvious subterfuge, designed to divide the populace along political lines, only proves how gullible and utterly bamboozled you are. Do you believe professional wrestling is real, too?

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:27 am

Teach and preach the "Buybull" .... label all those a-rabs as terrorists, and support the war on terrorism. Blow those rag heads to kingdom come, and let our imperialist will be done.

Get rid of those peacenik leftist fags, and teach our children to bomb the you know what outa everybody that doesn't go to church on Sunday.

I'm with you kazoo .... KAZOO for President !!!

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:52 am

Deadskins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Our schools are as hard left as our media

Did you learn that on Fox News, too?

It's sad that hearing multiple sides of an issue scares you so. So don't watch Fox. It's a lot easier hearing one side of an issue as the liberal media presents so you don't get confused with having to think and stuff.

Yeah, Fox really presents multiple sides of an issue. Talk about not thinking! That you believe the conservative-owned, corporate media is liberal, still astounds me. If the sensationalist infotainment put on by so-called news organizations comes across as liberal to you, then they are achieving their objective. That you can't see past the obvious subterfuge, designed to divide the populace along political lines, only proves how gullible and utterly bamboozled you are. Do you believe professional wrestling is real, too?

I don't watch Fox much, it's OK, you brought them up. Sure, they are Republican, but you will see Democrats on the channel all day long speaking for themselves. Republican views on the rest of the liberal media are virtually non-existent. That's why Fox is bashing in the rest of the media's brains. It's not that they are Republican, it's that they allow debate, it's a lot more interesting.

Same as why right radio hosts dominate. They move liberals to the front of the line and let them on the air. You will never hear a dissenting view on Air Head America. Actually I listen to it because it's so funny, but it's a lot more interesting hearing actual discussion of issues not one sided presentations of either side. That's why Fox is so much better then the rest of the liberal media, not because they are conservative. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with hearing non-liberal views, don't let it bother you so much. My issue with the liberal media is exactly that, I don't object to their being liberal, I object to their one sided presentation of the news.

You are a holdout BTW, all my moderate liberal friends I've had this debate with for years have actually been sickened by the media's constantly blowing Obama. You seriously look at the vitriol that was heaped on W for 8 years and their becoming Obama's mouthpiece (in more ways then one) and you don't see any bias? Seriously?

Cappster · Post by **Cappster** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:09 pm

If you would like a truly different perspective of new, watch BBC America. Their programming is presented a lot differently then the "hot and bothered" debating that is constant on American news channels.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:15 pm

I honestly don't know how anyone can stand watching any of the 24/7 news channels. You can easily take stock of current events with less than a couple of hours of internet surfing a week. And if you just have to see the interviews, it's easy to find videos online that cut out the fluff and commericals. And as for the opinion-spouters and talk radio guys, I can't see the value in ever paying attention to what they are saying.

I find it much better to spend my time doing other things, but apparently I'm in the minority on this one.