JC and A "Fair Shake"

[thrasher]

I think this next game will show us a lot about JC. And your right this board does rock!!!!!!!

[John Manfreda]

I think to complain about Campbell and not getting a fair shake is laughable. His first year he didn't have to do jack, his second year even though he had to learn a new offense he wasn't asked to play until the season was over. So he had some time in training camp and the season to grasp some of the 700 play playbook. His third year he got to start and everyone blamed the receivers.
In the NFL you have to perform, its not fair to the players that they have to wait for a qb to develop while we have the talent to win now, if you want to talk about fair. Its not fair Matt Leinart is getting benched for a over the hill Qb before he even got a chance to establish himself. Its not fair Ramsey had to go through Spurrier, than all of a sudden a new coach trades for a well established Qb, than the next year drafts another with the first round. Its not fair that Trent wins the superbowl and gets cut. Its not fair Rodgers had to go through that Favre crap and they also drafted Brain in the second round. Jason has nothing to complain about and your forgetting that he ran the west coast offense his senior year so its not like learning a brand new offense.

[SkinsFreak]

I think this next game will show us a lot about JC. And your right this board does rock!!!!!!!

Welcome thrasher, glad to have you. Check out the Rules and Regulations and enjoy yourself. There are some very knowledgeable fans here and you're right, this board does rock.

I think Zorn may open up the play book a little more in this next game, so I agree we should see more from Campbell and the entire offense.

[CanesSkins26]

Think about it, we were looking for a third stringer, we already had our starter and back-up in place, and if it weren't for Colt's injuries last year and criminal record he probably would have been a 1st or 2nd round pick.

No he wouldn't have been. He is a longterm project, not a player that can come in right away and contribute. He played in a pass happy spread offense that was a closer to a run-and-shoot than a traditional NFL offense. He barely even take snaps from under center in college as he was out of the shotgun on just about every play. His mechanics are poor and he's made plenty of throws during preseason games that would've been picks against a first team defense.

As for JC, I don't think that he's on a short leash at all this year. I do, however, think that this is his make or break year with the team. If he struggles I expect us to be looking for another starting qb for next season. However, I think he'll do just fine this year so I don't expect that to be an issue.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I don't know who's given you that perception, but I question it. Sounds more like some critics consider JC more of a "dead man walking" than Zorn does.

He'll have his chance. Last year was a chance to prove himself and he made out OK before the injury. He'll need to show improvement this year but he's built a nice foundation for himself.

Folks on other boards I've visited.... I agree he has a nice foundation.

Those boards must be void of any intelligent fans!

I can speak to one of those other boards. I won't mention names but it has acquired a HUGE following of Colt's from the islands who fell in love with him while he was there. Most of them are decent enough but there are a few serious Homers plus some Nelly Negativitys who are anointing the kid as the greatest thing since sliced bread. They want him to start immediately, blinded as they are by their belief that he is destined for greatness.

That may be true, but he's raw as raw gets, and has much to learn about the game at this level. I firmly support JC this year and the next - though I hope his learning curve in Zorn's WCO doesn't take that long lol. He has ALL the tools to be a Pro Bowl-caliber QB in this league; he just needs to stop second-guessing himself IMO and trust his reads out there.

[SKINFAN]

New offense or not, 1st string defense or not, he didn't show anything last night. Carolina is physical, sure, what about philly? giants? If the line breaks down like they did and JC holds on to the ball (or not hold on to it when hit) too long we will be looking at a long, loooooong season. I think that we are way better than what we showed last night. The thing that irked me is that we didn't even try to win, take shots down field, go down swinging. Instead we went for draw plays... WTF. JC looked exactly like he looked last year. How is it that TC can pick up where he left off and get to the playoffs, and he can't. I know it's way way too early to call for his head, but this lil hiccup is worrysome. Is it just a hiccup or is it a foreshadowing of things to come?

[brad7686]

JC is starting to look more and more like Ramsey. Hell of an arm, but may be too slow to make it in this league without outstanding protection. TC is just as slow now that he is out of Saunders system. Brennan looks like he was made for the WCO. Quick Reads, Quick Release, Accurate. If Zorn has a long stay in Washington I can see Brennan starting in the future.

[grampi]

I don't understand why he's so slow to make the throw. He always looks like he's moving in slow motion.

[VetSkinsFan]

I think this next game will show us a lot about JC. And your right this board does rock!!!!!!!

I think that it showed a lot. On Sunday, I was really thinking about how bad the game was. I was trying to isolate where things went wrong. I think this is the main issue in the passing game:

JC reads much too slow. I've never played organized ball, but it's at least believable the Thiesmann says: he holds on to the ball too long. Each play has timing. The lineman are counting on that timing. If the ball is supposed to be gone in 3 secs and it's still in the pocket at 6 secs, you can't blame the line for breaking down. If it's a 3 step drop, the tackles drive the ends behind the pocket, the ball should be gone before the ends recover and sack the QB. The breakdown? The ball is still there. I'm notn putting on the blame on JC, but I think if JC made his reds faster, the skins would be in a lot better situation. This would open up a lot of things for the offense.

Oh yeah, STOP ALL THE FREAKIN DRAWS!

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

I know it's way way too early to call for his head, but this lil hiccup is worrysome.

Cut the guy some slack. It's not every offseason that you lose a wily veteran 3rd ballot-HOFer like Mark Brunell.

Looks like it was tougher on Jason than on the rest of us.

[VetSkinsFan]

I know it's way way too early to call for his head, but this lil hiccup is worrysome.

Cut the guy some slack. It's not every offseason that you lose a wily veteran 3rd ballot-HOFer like Mark Brunell.

Looks like it was tougher on Jason than on the rest of us.

[RayNAustin]

I think this next game will show us a lot about JC. And your right this board does rock!!!!!!!

I think that it showed a lot. On Sunday, I was really thinking about how bad the game was. I was trying to isolate where things went wrong. I think this is the main issue in the passing game:

JC reads much too slow. I've never played organized ball, but it's at least believable the Thiesmann says: he holds on to the ball too long. Each play has timing. The lineman are counting on that timing. If the ball is supposed to be gone in 3 secs and it's still in the pocket at 6 secs, you can't blame the line for breaking down. If it's a 3 step drop, the tackles drive the ends behind the pocket, the ball should be gone before the ends recover and sack the QB. The breakdown? The ball is still there. I'm notn putting on the blame on JC, but I think if JC made his reds faster, the skins would be in a lot better situation. This would open up a lot of things for the offense.

Oh yeah, STOP ALL THE FREAKIN DRAWS!

Your observations are correct, and it's not just Thiesmann who says this...Zorn said it after the game. But at the risk of sounding like a broken record, this isn't new. This was the rub on Campbell in college, (holding the ball too long) along with him locking onto receivers which allows DB's to read him. These two faults are amplified by the speed of the NFL versus the college level, and have been the primary things preventing him from progressing to the next level with the Redskins. This is not confusion on Campbell's part, it's his nature. He's slow and methodical and deliberate in his mannerisms and movements and speech. He's a type B personality, and you can no more change that than you can change the stripes on a zebra. It would be like trying to teach Brett Favre to be calm and reserved and cautious. Favre is a gunslinger and a risk taker and emotional. It's his nature, and you can't change it.

What should worry the Redskins is that his system is not going to make it easier for Campbell, it's going to make it harder for him due to the additional demands Zorn's offense requires of the QB. Zorn's system relies on the QB to assess defensive alignments at the line and set protections on passes, and blocking assignments on runs in addition to actually executing the plays. Campbell has never been required to do those things before, and he still struggles with the fundamentals of going through his progressions at a faster pace. How in Gods name are those additional responsibilities going to help him? They aren't.

Frankly, this offense requires more from the QB position than most systems require, so given Campbell's natural weaknesses in the area, this situation is like forcing a square peg in a round hole, and is a recipe for disaster.

And contrary to what some would have you believe, this has nothing to do with liking or disliking Campbell. It just is what it is.

So if anyone wants to make excuses for Campbell, this is a legitimate one.

[Gibbs4Life]

When a defensive line is teeing off on you like that you've got to do what Gibbs did, bring those te's in, man up, and tote the rock. I worry about Zorn's eagerness to abandon the run except with draws.

[hailskins666]

regarding the last two posts....

this would be another time where i have to bring up that having a REAL GM would have helped. maybe a real gm would have understood the round peg, square hole thing. campell may be very good in the right system. i just don't see it happening in this one. gibbs built the team one way, new coach is on the opposite end of the spectrum.

moot point really. we are stuck with snyderatto, and the repercussions of it. so all we can do is sit back and watch.

[VetSkinsFan]

When a defensive line is teeing off on you like that you've got to do what Gibbs did, bring those te's in, man up, and tote the rock. I worry about Zorn's eagerness to abandon the run except with draws.

no, you go downfield and back those LB/safeties up. If you go nowhere down field, then LBs might as well be more lineman. Safeties play LB position and you have a stacked LoS every freakin play, clogging all of the running lanes. Then you lose. That's what happens.

[GSPODS]

When a defensive line is teeing off on you like that you've got to do what Gibbs did, bring those te's in, man up, and tote the rock. I worry about Zorn's eagerness to abandon the run except with draws.

no, you go downfield and back those LB/safeties up. If you go nowhere down field, then LBs might as well be more lineman. Safeties play LB position and you have a stacked LoS every freakin play, clogging all of the running lanes. Then you lose. That's what happens.

Exactly. If teams are loading 8 or 9 defenders in the box, you put five receivers on the field and keep going middle deep to deep until the defense goes to a nickel or dime to stop it. Then you run them over with power rushing until they load up the box again. Then you change up every play or two until they have no idea what you are doing or how to stop it. Power rushing at an 8 or 9 man front is counter-productive.
It also severely limits the QB's options if both tight ends are blocking.

[hailskins666]

When a defensive line is teeing off on you like that you've got to do what Gibbs did, bring those te's in, man up, and tote the rock. I worry about Zorn's eagerness to abandon the run except with draws.

no, you go downfield and back those LB/safeties up. If you go nowhere down field, then LBs might as well be more lineman. Safeties play LB position and you have a stacked LoS every freakin play, clogging all of the running lanes. Then you lose. That's what happens.

Exactly. If teams are loading 8 or 9 defenders in the box, you put five receivers on the field and keep going middle deep to deep until the defense goes to a nickel or dime to stop it. Then you run them over with power rushing until they load up the box again. Then you change up every play or two until they have no idea what you are doing or how to stop it. Power rushing at an 8 or 9 man front is counter-productive.

which goes right back to JC. does he have what it takes to read those defenses, and pick them apart, or will the defense just laugh at that notion, and leave the ball in JC's court to beat them trough the air. setting up the run with the pass only works if you complete those oppurtunites over the middle, and deep down the field.....

i think that the only defense in the league afraid of JC right now is the redskin D. they are just afraid of the crappy field position JC may leave them in when he makes another boneheaded turnover...

[GSPODS]

When a defensive line is teeing off on you like that you've got to do what Gibbs did, bring those te's in, man up, and tote the rock. I worry about Zorn's eagerness to abandon the run except with draws.

no, you go downfield and back those LB/safeties up. If you go nowhere down field, then LBs might as well be more lineman. Safeties play LB position and you have a stacked LoS every freakin play, clogging all of the running lanes. Then you lose. That's what happens.

Exactly. If teams are loading 8 or 9 defenders in the box, you put five receivers on the field and keep going middle deep to deep until the defense goes to a nickel or dime to stop it. Then you run them over with power rushing until they load up the box again. Then you change up every play or two until they have no idea what you are doing or how to stop it. Power rushing at an 8 or 9 man front is counter-productive.

which goes right back to JC. does he have what it takes to read those defenses, and pick them apart, or will the defense just laugh at that notion, and leave the ball in JC's court to beat them trough the air. setting up the run with the pass only works if you complete those oppurtunites over the middle, and deep down the field.....

i think that the only defense in the league afraid of JC right now is the redskin D. they are just afraid of the crappy field position JC may leave them in when he makes another boneheaded turnover...

True enough, but the receivers have to get open, something they aren't exactly noted for, and hold onto the ball, another thing that seemed to escape them last season, break tackles or outrun coverages, another skill which seems to be lacking, hold onto the ball after the catch, yet another weak area.

Jason Campbell might be better than some think or worse than some think or anywhere in the middle, but the Redskins have the same group of starting receivers who didn't do jack crap last season, one career special teamer who is now the likely #2 receiver, and the same problems.
It isn't all on Jason Campbell any more than it's all on the receivers, or the coaching staff or the schemes. It's on having the wrong QB, the wrong receivers, the wrong philosophy for the personnel on the team. That's what happens when a run first coach (Gibbs) builds the team ahead of a pass first coach (Zorn). It's going to take more than one off-season to patch all of the holes in this faux pas, charlie foxtrot, or whatever term you'd care to use. There is not much chance (I won't say no chance) of this team equalling last season's success. I fully expect at least a slight regression while the team figures out what works and what doesn't.

[hailskins666]

which goes back to square one, again. until snyderatto is bannished forever..... ah forget it, i've beat that dead horse so long that it is now just remains of a skeleton.

[VetSkinsFan]

which goes back to square one, again. until snyderatto is bannished forever..... ah forget it, i've beat that dead horse so long that it is now just remains of a skeleton.

qft

[yupchagee]

which goes back to square one, again. until snyderatto is bannished forever..... ah forget it, i've beat that dead horse so long that it is now just remains of a skeleton.

You are displaying aspects of necrophilia, beastiality & OCD Get help

[John Manfreda]

He holds on to the ball too long, gets sacked too much, makes too many turnovers, wow JC sounds just like somebody else. I wonder who?

[GSPODS]

which goes back to square one, again. until snyderatto is bannished forever..... ah forget it, i've beat that dead horse so long that it is now just remains of a skeleton.

I get you, but we're screwed, blued and tattooed for the next 40 years or so. We may as well get used to it. We don't have to like it, but we may as well get used to it. And hope that, if even by accident, the Skins get to another SuperBowl before we all die or become too old and senile to care.

[hailskins666]

which goes back to square one, again. until snyderatto is bannished forever..... ah forget it, i've beat that dead horse so long that it is now just remains of a skeleton.

You are displaying aspects of necrophilia, beastiality & OCD Get help

post mortom beastiallity always works best. the animals just don't cooperate when they are live.

[RayNAustin]

but the Redskins have the same group of starting receivers who didn't do jack crap last season, one career special teamer who is now the likely #2 receiver, and the same problems.

Correction, that group of receivers didn't do jack crap with Jason Campbell throwing to them. I recall very clearly how much taller they got, and how much better their hands became immediately after Collins took over. But for some, the wall of denial is too tall to climb over.

Santana Moss had a phenomenal year in 2005, and is a legit deep threat. y is a 1st class TE, and ARE and Thrash are decent possession receivers. So I'm not buying this business about needing new receivers.

You could have TO on one side and Randy Moss on the other and it wouldn't make any difference as the ball sailed over their heads and out of reach.