Rugby World Cup

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:19 am

Damn, the game isn't on until 5 here. I shouldn't have checked this thread.

Oh well, should still be fun to watch.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:41 am

Congratulations Trevor - this has been truly a great comeback for the England team and to now play in the final of the World Cup as the defending champion is somehow very appropriate - all the best to you and I hope we see a great game.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:51 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Congratulations Trevor - this has been truly a great comeback for the England team and to now play in the final of the World Cup as the defending champion is somehow very appropriate - all the best to you and I hope we see a great game.

Cheers!

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:01 pm

RSA destroyed Argentina. Somebody has to play against South Africa in the final. Tough but well earned assignment for England next week.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:14 pm

South Africa certainly will start as the bookies favourite, but I'll be able to come up with a perfectly sensible set of reasons why England will win by the end of the week.

I've got some thinking to do, but it will involve South African indiscipline, Jason Robinson, Jonny Wilkinson (obviously), and perhaps some badly cooked prawns.

I stopped watching the second semi at half time, because it seemed clear that Argentina had a case of nerves, and were making far too many errors. True, South Africa were powerful at the breakdown, but Argentina really should have taken more care of the football.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:17 pm

Oh, and am I alone in having formed an intense loathing of Percy Montgomery? The guy looks like a right jessie, with his oh-so-lovely hair. I'm looking for Andrew Sheridan to make an impression on this guy...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:44 pm

I hesitated but I cannot resist - I am hoping the yarpies take it to JW this game - I would not mind seeing him finish his career during this game - nobody in the world of rugby makes me want to :puke:

more than this guy

Now I know this will sound like sour grapes but I am looking for a minor (or major :lol:

) thrashing this weekend - this England team has overachieved and now it will be truly fitting for the Springboks to show why the England rugby team might not even be rated in the top 10 in the rugby world and not even in the top 5 in the 6 Nations :shock:

In soccer and rugby ratings system a team beating a better team (as England did to both Australia and France AND France did to the All Blacks) does not get your rating up - you have to prove it over time and this weekend we shall see England play in a game where their true form will show up and the Springboks will win the World Cup but still only be 2nd (or 3rd) in the rugby ratings :lol:

There is no given in rugby and the poms could pull this out which would be huge for them but I just do not see it - the South African team just matches up too well and England have been playing over their heads the last 2 games this will be way too much for them, sorry Trevor

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:24 pm

Jock, I'm disappointed in you - taking such an unnecessary dislike of our Jonny, just because he broke your heart four years ago. Finish his career??? [-X

I wouldn't even have wished that on George Gregan, and I hated him.

I know you're just a little emotional after the spanking your countrymen had to endure.

I'll be back later in the week, when I've perfected my blueprint for how England will win this game. As you might imagine, this week's plan needs a great deal of thought.

But I will say this - South Africa are the best side England have faced yet. And one of these two teams is going to equal Australia's record of two World Cup victories (while some people still think that New Zealand dominate the world of rugby union :wink:

)

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:43 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:... (while some people still think that New Zealand dominate the world of rugby union )

As long as it is not the World Cup, they do. :lol:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:37 pm

you're right Trevor, he did break our hearts but this game will be a huge test for you guys - there is always the chance that the English guys can play above themselves.

Even you would have to agree that the best team in rugby right now is still the All Blacks. I love my Wallabies but those guys are just different and that nation is crazy about their rugby.

It really is hard for the northern teams to get any real experience from regularly playing against a really good side and the Tri Nations IMO keeps those countries test sides in better form - we also have the "minor league" games (Super 14, etc,,) from which all 3 nations can cultivate their prospects - Europe has nothing like this to offer their younger players.

on a slightly different note it was interesting that South Africa, New Zealand and Australia (SANZAR) have given the OK for the new rules next year and that should lead to much more open rugby in the future.

dmwc · Post by **dmwc** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:09 pm

I got to watch some rugby games on TV while stationed in the desert. I didnt know the rules but by the 4th game i started getting into it. if i ever get stationed over seas i am surely going to watch more and even possibly get a favorite team.. Rugby is way cooler than soccer though it takes mad skills to play.

Any ways it is a bad ass sport though I am still a loss of how possesion changes and the whole throw the ball between two guys legs is like a snap...

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:26 pm

There are 2 quite different games with the name rugby attached - Rugby Union (normally referred to as rugby!) and Rugby League - Rugby league involves the player getting up and playing the ball back between his legs but on the ground, to a player behind him! - Rugby does not have plays like that but has some other factors at what we call the "breakdown" that are presently being looked at and changed.

great game to play and watch

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:12 pm

Jock - I would agree that New Zealand has consistently been the best team in the world over the last three years. They have slipped back slightly over the last year or so, and there is the difference between them and England in 2003. In 2003, England had also slipped back slightly from being clearly the best team in the world; perhaps they had actually slipped further than New Zealand have in the last year. But England held their nerve during the last World Cup, had the guts to struggle through against South Africa, Samoa and France, when they really weren't playing their best, and got their reward in the final.

The contrast with New Zealand is stark - these guys are consistent failures at the World Cup. Player for player, there isn't a three quarter in the England team that would make it into the All Black side, and I include Jason Robinson and Jonny Wilkinson in that!

If it wasn't for the World Cup, we'd all be saluting the All Blacks as the best in the world. But they can't handle the pressure of big match rugby when it really matters, and that's a part of the game.

New Zealand makes a heck of a lot out of fewer players, and that deserves respect. But I can't help a little giggle at their incompetence every four years in this competition.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:34 pm

And so, I shall unveil my masterplan for English victory on Saturday. Firstly, it is right to acknowledge that South Africa are big favourites, as they have played better rugby than England throughout the tournament, have had more continuity of selection and performance over the last year, and have the morale boost of having stuffed England during the first round of the tournament. I will go so far as to say that if England find themselves more than 6 points behind at any point during the game, there will be no coming back.

But they won't fall six points behind. It is a sad fact that this England side are not yet capable of playing the kind of flowing attacking rugby seen from the team of 2001/2002. For that reason, the neutrals will once more have reason to mock the style of English play - it will be brutal, tough and uncompromising. Not that England will be the only team responsible for that, because South Africa are quite happy to play that way in the forwards too. The South Africans have a clear advantage in the backs, and England will work to prevent them from getting decent possession.

First, England will compete at the lineout against Matfield and Botha - the best combination in the world. But Kay and Shaw are good enough to disrupt them on South African throw-ins and to secure possession when England throw. In the scrum, this will be a close contest, but England can come out on top, and slowly wear down the South Africans.

An area where the Springboks will expect an advantage is at the breakdown, where Burger and Smith will expect to dominate. But so did George Smith for Australia, and he got found out by Lewis Moody, Nick Easter and Martin Corry. Only Moody has real pace, but if Easter and Corry can support him quickly enough, then England will put Burger and Smith on the back foot.

England will look to spoil and frustrate the South Africans, and will play the game in the Springboks' half. Discipline will become a factor for the Springboks, and Wilkinson will punish then by chipping over the kicks. Look for Butch James in particular to lose his mind, and end up watching the game from the sidelines.

It will be tight, and will come down to the last 10 minutes, again. But Mike Catt will kick the winning drop goal, whilst the whole South African back row chases after Wilkinson.

Well, that's the plan... If both teams play to their best, South Africa will win. For England, the key is stop their opponents from playing their best rugby. The England team have come together in this tournament, and they can still improve. It will need their best game of the tournament by a long way in order for them to win.

Enjoy the game. Actually, as both RiC and Jock are hoping for an English defeat, I hope you both hate the game. :wink:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:54 am

England's secret to success: broccoli and sleep patterns.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 681683.ece

Come on, England!

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:15 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:England's secret to success: broccoli and sleep patterns.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 681683.ece

Come on, England!

That's my boy!

Who would want to scrum down behind somebody who'd had broccoli for breakfast? Yuck.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:33 am

UK Skins Fan wrote:Enjoy the game. Actually, as both RiC and Jock are hoping for an English defeat, I hope you both hate the game.

Let us be precise here. South Africa -deserves- to be the Champion in terms of their performance throughout the Tournament. England has over-achieved. The boring, grinding, conservative but smash-moth effective approach to their game goes back a decade or two. They deserve the second spot. Nothing wrong with such a prestigious position.

My favourite team, New Zealand, is out. My sentimental favourite, Tonga, is out. I have no real interest to see one or the other finalist team win. I am -hoping- indeed for a great game. I have the suspicion though that if the game is exciting, South Africa will win by a good difference. If the game is boring, England will keep it close.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:38 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:Enjoy the game. Actually, as both RiC and Jock are hoping for an English defeat, I hope you both hate the game.

Let us be precise here. South Africa -deserves- to be the Champion in terms of their performance throughout the Tournament. England has over-achieved. The boring, grinding, conservative but smash-moth effective approach to their game goes back a decade or two. They deserve the second spot. Nothing wrong with such a prestigious position.

My favourite team, New Zealand, is out. My sentimental favourite, Tonga, is out. I have no real interest to see one or the other finalist team win. I am -hoping- indeed for a great game. I have the suspicion though that if the game is exciting, South Africa will win by a good difference. If the game is boring, England will keep it close.

What does smashing moths have to do with rugby? :lol:

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:37 pm

GSPODS wrote:What does smashing moths have to do with rugby?

Smashing moths is about all that RiC's beloved New Zealand are capable of. :evil:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:54 pm

9-3 at halftime - the pommie commentators are very biased and the game is very boring and that is what England are hoping for as if they are close they might be able to pull it out with another exciting drop goal :lol:

- one of the reasons the southern hemispere teams dominate the northern hemisphere teams is that they play all the phases of the game so well (the All Blacks do have some trouble with the WC) - and the poms and especially the french cannot score tries so in an act of desperation they try for drop goals instead - really challenging and exciting rugby :shock:

Hopefully both teams come out and try and play more entertaining rugby

Well the pommie captain is out for the second half - must be something wrong with the cup-a-tea they served :wink:

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

The Springboks win - the English team almost managed to spoil the tournament with their very closed idea of how to play rugby - no worries though the ref would not reward them with some questionqable decisions against the English team in the end to ensure that the better team won - the England team can be very proud of how their style of rugby almost pulled it off again - :lol:

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:22 pm

SkinsJock wrote:The Springboks win - the English team almost managed to spoil the tournament with their very closed idea of how to play rugby -

Every team plays to their strengths and they did. Yawn

Boring game, unless you are a fan of either team. Yawn

The best team in the Tournament won and the second best team lost. Yawn

How about Argentina? :shock:

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:39 am

Is that the sound of whingeing I hear from the corners of the Commonwealth? :roll:

You guys kill me! What about Argentina indeed? They played their rugby in exactly the same way as England. Sure, they scored some super tries in the 3rd place playoff against France, but most of them seemed to come from broken play, and not from some renewed commitment to open rugby from first phase ball. I didn't see any criticism of their style of play throughout the tournament - it couldn't possibly be that the "neutrals" judge them by a different set of criteria, could it? For some reason, they are one of the teams that made the tournament great, rather than being responsible for "almost spoiling it". ROTFALMAO

The game was not exciting for the "neutrals" (not that there ever are neutrals when England play - all the small and bitter nations around the world root for our opponents :evil:

), but it was tense viewing for fans of either team. And here's a newsflash for you - neither team was playing to entertain the masses. They were both there to win the World Cup, because that is all that the last two months has been about.

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:43 am

South Africa were deserving winners - I have no complaints at all. Their defence was outstanding, and repelled English attacks without conceding the penalties that Wilkinson would surely have kicked to win the game. Their lineout was untouchable, and they disrupted the English lineout sufficiently to restrict English opportunities to run the ball from that phase of play. The scrum was even, and neither team attained an advantage from it - although South Africa will consider that a key plus point, because England were relying on achieving dominance there.

South Africa played little or no attacking, running rugby themselves, and that was their decision, not the result of some English masterplan to bore the viewing public into submission. South Africa played like the favourites that they were, without being confident enough in their own superiority to attack with conviction. That could also be largely attributed to the quality of English defence.

And the only moment of near genius that I can remember, with ball in had, was brought to us by England's Mathew Tait, who so nearly scored a great try. Of course, instead of Tait making it over the line, it led to the one moment of controversy, when Cueto's try was disallowed. Except that it wasn't a try, and it wasn't controversial, because Cueto's foot was clearly in touch before the ball was grounded. It might have been a turning point in the game, but it turned the game in the correct direction.

The officiating was sound in this game (some English commentators might point at some questionable failures to punish some South African obstructions during the game, but they didn't affect the outcome).

My overwhelming feeling this morning is one of pride. Not pride in glorious failure, because failure just isn't glorious. But pride in the fact that this English team, after four years of utter futility, has been able to produce the very best effort it could at this World Cup. A long way from being able to play "entertaining" rugby, they nevertheless achieved the most that they could, given their limitations. Give me a team that achieves the best it can any day - far preferrable to a team of underachievers.

Well played South Africa - consistently the best team in the tournament. Now, when does the next one start?

UK Skins Fan · Post by **UK Skins Fan** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:13 am

Oh, and wasn't it wonderful that Princes William and Harry were able to make time in their packed schedules to get to the game? And that they were able to get tickets? I'm so pleased for them.