Perspective on Brunell from a Jaguar Fan

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:33 pm

right - which is why I wrote that - I defended you right before your post back to me, if you didn't notice

I agree Brunell isn't as good as PRam's raw talent. The problem is that Ramsey is raw and it showed this year (along with Spurrier's stupidity).

Brunell, if beaten out at camp will be a great mentor. If he isn't beaten out this year I think he will be next year. Ramsey couldn't be hurt by learning from the sidelines for a year any more than Pennington who is a heckuva QB.

I don't disagree with you disagreeing, just that you needed to have a heads up that people were seeing what you were writing as not just a difference of opinion, but as aggressiveness. I am not saying you were purposefully becoming aggressive, but not everyone argues as vehemently as you NJ/NY guys - I have to travel up there and frequently get into it with customers when we talk football - but I bust their b*lls as much as they bust mine and we part friends cause that is what we know we are doing.

I noticed the same prob in the military - some of the northern guys from big cities would be playing but other guys didn't realize it cause they didn't come from the same dozens cutting backgrounds....

capisce?

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:38 pm

capisce.

Im a NY guy im always aggressive,but don't take that as a dislike or anything negitive...I just speak what on my mind and i wear my heart on my sleeve.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:41 pm

Smizzy, if you change your approach one darn bit, I will have lost all respect for you. I may disagree with you most of the time, but I sure as heck respect it, because it makes me have to think. I hate "going herd". I'm able to form arguments against the Jet fans I see everyday due to our back and forth here on these pages. All Richie is saying is, don't be hurt by the inevitable attacks. You're wearing a different uniform. It's almost like a Confederate soldier visiting a Union camp after the war and trying to debate the issues between the sides. You'd never, never get 100% of them behind you, no matter what you say. At least, no more than any of us could go to the Jets site and say, "Hey, Testaverde ought to call it quits, man. Pennington has the helm now." What happens if Pennington gets hurt again ? You know and I know, he needs Vinny around. That's all. Respect the surroundings as you usually do. I know you can handle it. For God's sake, though, don't change your approach.

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:42 pm

That is why I haven't jumped yer case cause I understand that you are a product of that background - doesn't bug me. I just know that some of the people raised gentler don't get that from you and raise hell back atcha....

I just wanted to warn you as a bud (misplaced loyalty and all) that some of the things you say are misinterpreted. Just like you misinterpret me sometimes - I know you don't say things about everyone all the time, but say it about one of us... etc etc...

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:45 pm

I hear you guys loud and clear....

I will be alittle more mindfull that some people may take my posts to heart...but i wont chnage.

skins75 · Post by **skins75** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:48 pm

Smizzy at this point Ramsey is not a much better QB than Brunell as you stated. Brunell is a proven veteran with above average stats. Also, you dont know whether we overpaid for him because the contract hasnt been laid out yet (at least to my knowledge). I can assure you that most of the money will be at the backend of his contract which he will never see. On another note if Brunell is so washed up why is it that every team in need of QB had Brunell on their wish list? I am so sick of people second guessing JG and his decisions. Quit stirring up trouble and worry about your own damn team. People just need to relax.

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:57 pm

skins75 wrote:Smizzy at this point Ramsey is not a much better QB than Brunell as you stated. Brunell is a proven veteran with above average stats. Also, you dont know whether we overpaid for him because the contract hasnt been laid out yet (at least to my knowledge). I can assure you that most of the money will be at the backend of his contract which he will never see. On another note if Brunell is so washed up why is it that every team in need of QB had Brunell on their wish list? I am so sick of people second guessing JG and his decisions. Quit stirring up trouble and worry about your own damn team. People just need to relax.

It's far more benificial for Ramsey to start then it is for him to be behind Brunell on the depth chart...I know Pennington learned alot on the bench its far better for him to be in the game and learn...I said before i like this move if he's a backup to your starter..Ramsey is the real deal...he has earned the right to atleast make brunell take the job from him,it should be the other way around.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:08 am

Well, then...at this point, it's all up to him, isn't it ? He now has meaningful competition for camp. He'll either step up or fold up, won't he ?
My bet is that he'll step up. I think Gibbs knew that Patches wouldn't have any qualms about going against Tony Banks, et al. in camp. There's no championships there, no real history of success. Not so with Brunell. Ramsey will have to recognize that this man Brunell knows how to win, knows how to get it done when you're trailing by ten with four minutes to go. He'll either show his mettle or show his here-to-fore unknown true colors, Patches will. I can't wait to see which choice he makes, and how much his friggin' agent has say in it.

P Onca · Post by **P Onca** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:43 am

Just to add a little from what they're saying down here. The talk is that Gibbs needs a veteran QB who will know his role in Gibbs' system and play accordingly. Could a factor be that Ramsey may still be in a position where he has to prove himself, i.e. contract incentives, and he may push the envelope when running the offense?

Brunell got his contract and now he wants to have a shot at the big one. Those are his goals. Not numbers or anything like that.

One thing you will be able to count on with Brunell is he is a class-act. He handled his benching down here as a true professional. Now, don't take him as "soft" because Brunell wants to play and to win. He is competitive. But he also knows when to back off or when to step up. Perhaps this intangible is what Gibbs is looking at when comparing the two QBs.

I don't know much about Ramsey, so could this be a factor?

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:24 am

Re:Brunell
He's also coming across as a little cocky, if you believe the quotes from him that were posted last night on this board in another thread.
He sounds like a man whose mission was accomplished before it was started.

jaw32 · Post by **jaw32** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:04 am

P Onca - I WAS a Jax fan, but with Boselli, McCardell and Brunell gone, I am no longer...I'm a new Redskin fan!

If you know football and can see the BIG picture (ie someone like GIBBS!!!!), you would see how good of a QB Brunell was and IS.

When he had Smith and McCardell (Smith is good but Brunell made him a star), with Boselli and Searcy, and the Jags defense was never better than average, acutally quite average, the Jags won a lot of games. Then when those guys started getting hurt, traded, on drug suspension and nobody worth a &#%@! filled in for them, that's when things went downhill. Brunell led the league in getting sacked one year and was I believe in the top 3 the next. Brunell had knee injuries, concussions and yet he still battled back without complaint.

Brunell made a couple of dumb-dumb passes (though the Rolle int was a smart play) in some important games and it did cost. But the defense was never good enough to help over-come (ie Patriots-Brady int in endzone).

It just ticks me off when these Jax fans have no clue and spout off.

Brunell is healthy and ready. JUST WAIT AND SEE!!!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:36 am

SirSmizzy wrote:Brunell is past his prime...and to say he hasnt shown a decline is not true...did you watch him play?

He isn't half the QB he was.

Can you say anything more obvious? 2+2 =4 too. Wow, big deal. He will be 34 years old, OF COUESE he's past his prime. What an idiotic thing to say.

However, what is being suggested when reading between the lines of your post couldnt be FURTHER from the truth.

In his last full season as a starter, 2002, his QB rating was the highest it had been in 5 seasons. Since the "glory seasons" of the Jags, 1998. And that 2002 team didnt even have as strong of a supporting cast. So, your opinions say one thing. Facts suggest something different.

In fact, before he got hurt in 2003, he was off to a season even better than 2002. So again, you're opinion is pales in comparison to some facts.

In 2002 and 2003, his TD to INT ration is 19 to 7. Which is not to suggest "fading", its not even to suggest "average" its not even "good" in reality, thats "great". And again, his team was even good.

So how do you explain yourself after facts have been hurled at you?http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:29 pm

"In his last full season as a starter, 2002, his QB rating was the highest it had been in 5 seasons. Since the "glory seasons" of the Jags, 1998. And that 2002 team didnt even have as strong of a supporting cast. So, your opinions say one thing. Facts suggest something different."

In 2002, despite playing 15 games, he also only threw for 2,788 yards, the least he had thrown since 1998, when he played only 13 games. He also had recent lows in attempts, completions, completion percentage, touchdowns, rushing yards, rushing average and rushing touchdowns.

"In fact, before he got hurt in 2003, he was off to a season even better than 2002. So again, you're opinion is pales in comparison to some facts."

Um, in 2003 he played three games. That's what people call a VERY small sample size.

"So how do you explain yourself after facts have been hurled at you?"

Allow me Smizzy. YOU CANT LOOK AT JUST ONE STATISTIC. That is a very stupid way of doing statistical analysis. If you really look at the numbers, it is obvious that Brunell is no longer the playmaker he once was. It's too bad he had that leg injury, because in 1995 and 1996, he was straight up Steve Young running the ball...

P Onca · Post by **P Onca** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:34 pm

jaw32 wrote:P Onca - I WAS a Jax fan, but with Boselli, McCardell and Brunell gone, I am no longer...I'm a new Redskin fan!

Great. I'm sure the Redskins are happy to have a bandwagoner such as yourself come and join their ranks.

For those Redskin fans out there, this reply is typical of the Brunell-First crowd that was so vocal during his benching this past year. Questioning Brunell's skills is akin to blasephme to some of these guys and gals.

For the record, as I stated in my posts above, I thought Brunell did great in the 90's and his skills diminished during the last three years. I acknowledged that the team's downward spiral had something to do with Brunell's performances. But I still think he lost something after his concussion from Rolle. Does my crystal ball say Brunell will bomb in Washington? No. 'Cause I don't know what he'll be able to do, but I still think the Jaguars got the better end of this deal.

jaw32:
Settle down and go out to your local K-Mart and try to pickup a Redskin hat or mock-jersey. I'm sure there a plenty in stock there in the Panhandle. I bet you could get them for real cheap too since Spurrier bombed so badly. (That's a knock on Gator fans BTW, and not on the Redskins. If you only knew what Jaguar fans went through when Spurrier resigned from UF.)

Have a nice day.

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:02 pm

P Onca wrote:Just to add a little from what they're saying down here. The talk is that Gibbs needs a veteran QB who will know his role in Gibbs' system and play accordingly. Could a factor be that Ramsey may still be in a position where he has to prove himself, i.e. contract incentives, and he may push the envelope when running the offense?

Brunell got his contract and now he wants to have a shot at the big one. Those are his goals. Not numbers or anything like that.

One thing you will be able to count on with Brunell is he is a class-act. He handled his benching down here as a true professional. Now, don't take him as "soft" because Brunell wants to play and to win. He is competitive. But he also knows when to back off or when to step up. Perhaps this intangible is what Gibbs is looking at when comparing the two QBs.

Now this is an excellent post - great perspective. I think this has real merit. I am not so sure last year was very good for Ramsey - professionally or emotionally. He needs some seasoning and worse things could happen to him than learning on the bench - if that happens.

Good job and welcome P Onca! :lol:

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:57 pm

SSIII i appreciate you sticking uo for me..i dont make suggestions....I Just speak my mind...

Now that i have had the facts thrown at me :roll:

I say the same thing...he's not the QB he used to be...to think you getteing the same brunell who dominated the dolphins in the playoffs....he is not the same QB.

He still is good and this is good move for you...he is not the same guy he once was.